New Hornby Rocket

[Free At Last]

Sam takes a look at the L&MR Flatbed Wagon...

 

[Steamport Southport]

Another one to avoid then.

 

I bet he doesn't even know what they are whilst leaving angry emojis....

 

 

For the record they are Open Carriage Trucks not wagons. Probably as accurate as you are going to get without a time machine.

 

Funnily enough I was looking at the paintings of the train formations in The Roscoe Head yesterday. There's one at the back of a train behind the RM Coach with a carriage and passengers sitting in it.

 

 

 

Jason

[SHMD]

I think I've just saved some money.

 

 

Kev.

[HonestTom]

On 18/04/2022 at 18:54, Steamport Southport said:

Another one to avoid then.

 

I bet he doesn't even know what they are whilst leaving angry emojis....

 

 

For the record they are Open Carriage Trucks not wagons. Probably as accurate as you are going to get without a time machine.

 

 

 

It doesn't look dissimilar to the images of carriage wagons, but I would question the fact that there doesn't appear to be any means of actually keeping the carriage in place on top of the wagon. The LNWR example in the NRM has slats running across the deck to keep the carriage wheels in place.

[adb968008]

Oh what a fickle bunch we are.

 

Back in 2020 Rails announced a Rocket 3rd, for £34.99 and everyone thought it great.

Then Hornby announced R40141 as a third for £16.99… which went into hyper frenzy and saw people paying £30+ a piece before release.

Followed by a rapid crash when it became apparent Hornby had smelled gold and decided to turn on the taps again…however..

 

Hornby obligingly made a 3 pack for £90, and took the body off to make a wagon and now everyones beating them with a stick for a £25 wagon.

 

This is why having an informed sales team is important… a golden rule of sales is to start high and go lower, because if you start low, you only get pain and resistance if you rise it…, similarly managing supply and not over cooking it, Somewhere way back when I recall predicting exactly this.

 

That said, Accurascales Chaldrons are only £15 a piece… so someone somewhere must be making something extra on Hornbys wagons, so good luck on that, i’m sure theres some demand, even if they are not accurate.

 

sigh, de-ja-vu, wait for the sales…

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by adb968008

[HExpressD]

The wagon doesn't look the best, but with respect Sam'sTrains seems not to be able to differentiate between his rear and his elbow...

[Edge]

Sam really does annoy me now, to the point where I run the proverbial mile whenever his opinion comes up on YouTube. 
 

I don’t know that Hornby did to annoy him, but it just have been good as none of the videos I have seen from him in the past year (for Hornby stuff) have involved him doing anything else but launch into a diatribe about them. He seems to know exactly what they are doing wrong in every aspect of their business without having worked in any of them, which is remarkable, and seems to now actively be looking for the aspects of the models that he can criticise, rather than try to give each model a fair run at things. 
 

these for example: a good portion do the video appears to be based around him grumbling around Hornby’s prices and how terrible it is that these are flat wagons using the coach chassis. This conclusion can be drawn by anyone with a pair of eyes and even a vague understanding of the models. He also sounds genuinely miffed when he has to admit that Hornby have made a sensible design choice on the wagon couplings allowing the wagons to run freely 

 

id also like to see how much vaunted ‘research’ about these wagons too, because to my knowledge the only evidence for the L&MR flat wagons are lithographs, which are basically useless for scale modelling anyway but seem to show wagons which are essentially as Hornby have made them. 
 

im not gonna pay £85 for them, but stuff like this really does irritate me a great deal

[adb968008]

In fairness Hornby are only doing what they used to do in the 1980’s.

How many “inspired by” wagons are in Hornbys 1970’s/80’s back catalog, many locos too used composite and common parts.

 

They are just going back to their roots on these,  generic coaches, and interesting liveries on a variety of stuff.

[newbryford]

12 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

In fairness Hornby are only doing what they used to do in the 1980’s.

How many “inspired by” wagons are in Hornbys 1970’s/80’s back catalog, many locos too used composite and common parts.

 

 

They still have some "inspired by" stuff in the current catalog. (Apart from Lion of course)

 

 

 

[MarkSG]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

In fairness Hornby are only doing what they used to do in the 1980’s.

How many “inspired by” wagons are in Hornbys 1970’s/80’s back catalog, many locos too used composite and common parts.

 

They are just going back to their roots on these,  generic coaches, and interesting liveries on a variety of stuff.

 

And there's no reason why they shouldn't, of course. Train set buyers aren't particularly interested in authenticity, and even modellers and collectors can be tempted by something that's attractive enough even if it's not necessarily accurate. There's money to be made in catering to Rule 1. 

[andyman7]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

In fairness Hornby are only doing what they used to do in the 1980’s.

How many “inspired by” wagons are in Hornbys 1970’s/80’s back catalog, many locos too used composite and common parts.

 

They are just going back to their roots on these,  generic coaches, and interesting liveries on a variety of stuff.

 

12 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

They still have some "inspired by" stuff in the current catalog. (Apart from Lion of course)

 

 

1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

 

And there's no reason why they shouldn't, of course. Train set buyers aren't particularly interested in authenticity, and even modellers and collectors can be tempted by something that's attractive enough even if it's not necessarily accurate. There's money to be made in catering to Rule 1. 

It's not quite the same as the 1970s/80s, where a majority of the rolling stock was 'inspired by' (anything pre-BR was either a refinished BR MK1 or if you were lucky a 'generic' pre-nationalisation livery; wagons were generally either an open wagon, tank or closed van and that was 'close enough' for any conceivable livery for either wagon type). These were all of items well within living memory.

 

What we now have is what appears to be a thriving market for generic items to go with statement pieces by various manufacturers such as Rocket, GNR No.1, Hardwicke etc on the basis that if they are finely finished and look OK they are well beyond the living memory of anyone. Of course there are scholars of these periods that will recoil at the compromises but for most, it simply doesn't make enough difference to justify the extra tooling costs. Although I have no doubt there will be at least 1 RMWebber who will challenge the paint shade on an 1840 wagon based on available etchings 😀

[HExpressD]

20 hours ago, Edge said:

Sam really does annoy me now, to the point where I run the proverbial mile whenever his opinion comes up on YouTube. 
 

I don’t know that Hornby did to annoy him, but it just have been good as none of the videos I have seen from him in the past year (for Hornby stuff) have involved him doing anything else but launch into a diatribe about them. He seems to know exactly what they are doing wrong in every aspect of their business without having worked in any of them, which is remarkable, and seems to now actively be looking for the aspects of the models that he can criticise, rather than try to give each model a fair run at things. 
 

these for example: a good portion do the video appears to be based around him grumbling around Hornby’s prices and how terrible it is that these are flat wagons using the coach chassis. This conclusion can be drawn by anyone with a pair of eyes and even a vague understanding of the models. He also sounds genuinely miffed when he has to admit that Hornby have made a sensible design choice on the wagon couplings allowing the wagons to run freely 

 

The issue with his videos are they are either invariably adverts or not what I would deem a true review. Case in point would be the recent Patriot review, where Sam purchased the model for £99 pounds and then docks it marks on value due to the new RRP. In my mind, that's not reviewing the model you have in front of you.

 

I suppose with 100k subs and an average video viewership of around 30k you have to try something to keep the views coming in (it's either that or get a job in Tesco), even if that means throwing a dart onto a board of manufacturers and then picking up an extreme bias for where it lands, one wonders if Hatton's was on that board. 

[Dana Ashdown]

On 20/04/2022 at 08:53, HonestTom said:

It doesn't look dissimilar to the images of carriage wagons, but I would question the fact that there doesn't appear to be any means of actually keeping the carriage in place on top of the wagon. The LNWR example in the NRM has slats running across the deck to keep the carriage wheels in place.

One thing, we can add anything we want to them to make them better or more "authentic."

[Bishdurham]

Mr K shared this image last week on Instagram.

 

Very nice it looks to!

[Dana Ashdown]

The mail coach should have been released separately, as well as in the new set.

[adb968008]

54 minutes ago, Dana Ashdown said:

The mail coach should have been released separately, as well as in the new set.

Not commercially.

I think they are doing the right thing.

 

Maybe 3000 odd of us own a Rocket set, but how many Rockets do you really need ?

by putting the mailcoach in the set, if you want it, then another Rocket it is, like it or not and they get another c£220 out of you, with a profit % of that amount,  as opposed to a c£25 sale and a small margin there of..not forgetting the box (storage, transport etc) for 1 coach isnt that much smaller than the box for all 4 items.

 

Maybe do it in the future once demand falls a little.

ive been on a journey with these, first buying the “Triang” edition, then the normal one, then selling both (admittedly I cashed out for the £££) and thought i’d wait on this one. However given the double price rises and long delay, and seeing both how fiddley it is and how minimal use i’d give it, I lost interest and decided to cancel.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by adb968008

[Dana Ashdown]

On 07/05/2022 at 12:03, adb968008 said:

Not commercially.

I think they are doing the right thing.

 

Maybe 3000 odd of us own a Rocket set, but how many Rockets do you really need ?

by putting the mailcoach in the set, if you want it, then another Rocket it is, like it or not and they get another c£220 out of you, with a profit % of that amount,  as opposed to a c£25 sale and a small margin there of..not forgetting the box (storage, transport etc) for 1 coach isnt that much smaller than the box for all 4 items.

 

Maybe do it in the future once demand falls a little.

ive been on a journey with these, first buying the “Triang” edition, then the normal one, then selling both (admittedly I cashed out for the £££) and thought i’d wait on this one. However given the double price rises and long delay, and seeing both how fiddley it is and how minimal use i’d give it, I lost interest and decided to cancel.

 

 

You're right, in so much as Hornby is cynically trying to squeeze sales out of Rocket by doing as many set iterations as it can, but that will eventually cause the most likely buyers to loose interest, as you have done.

 

The whole Lion/Titfield Thunderbolt business has shown yet again that the powers that be at Hornby are out of touch with reality. Rapido took all due steps to secure film rights before committing, unlike Hornby's assumption that the term "inspired" will allow them free-play. Plus, Rapido are offering Lion separately without extras.

 

Rocket and Lion ably demonstrate that there is a market for early railway models. What we need is less gimmickry and more practical offerings like an "authentic" Planet/Samson and/or Patentee. And without the add-ons. I might add that Lion is technically a Patentee-type, but current condition is far from original.

[Bishdurham]

Hornby have sent out an email that the new Rocket set is about to arrive, TMC have asked for money.

 

[RyanN91]

On 24/05/2022 at 18:49, Bishdurham said:

Hornby have sent out an email that the new Rocket set is about to arrive, TMC have asked for money.

 

Yes they've recently released final product photos with the packaging. Which I must say I love the box artwork design it all looks beautifully designed and to finally be able to see the Royal Mail coach. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is released on its own in the future it really is stunning! I missed out on the standard Hornby 2020 Rocket train but I have the Centenary Tri-Ang 1960 Rocket which I can't run as it's part of the centenary range, which I thankfully manged to get all  each decade including the retro wagons book, Hornby centenary parker pen, centenary badge and centenary collectors club loco. So this train pack will make up for it as I can actually run it without leaving it in its box and packaging. 

[MikeParkin65]

On display in Cheltenham Model Centre today. Looks very nice though not my cup of tea (you can get a sound fitted Bachmann class 24 for that money :))

[Ian Hargrave]

20 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

On display in Cheltenham Model Centre today. Looks very nice though not my cup of tea (you can get a sound fitted Bachmann class 24 for that money :))

What about an SLW  24 ? 😄  Just for a novelty/ Platinum celebration/ the hell of it ,its arrival on H’s website gave me a timely prod to avail myself of the 20% celebratory discount. A nice distraction from news of holiday travel woes,bunting,street parties etc. BUT,a Spitfire did fly over the house this morning…..honest. 

[Jammy2305]

On 24/05/2022 at 18:49, Bishdurham said:

Hornby have sent out an email that the new Rocket set is about to arrive, TMC have asked for money.

 

 

Got mine today from my local shop. The mail coach is nicely done!

[Trevor Hammond]

I must confess to being delighted with my Rocket set which I collected on Monday. Not my usual area of modeling but a lovely display item.

[Butler Henderson]

Have they made any improvement to the loco tender electrical connection or are they really in the majority only fit for display?

[Dana Ashdown]

46 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

are they really in the majority only fit for display?

I certainly hope not!🥴