Soldering iron

[boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, JeffP said:

I was taught to solder sixty plus years ago, using a huge 100W iron with a solid copper tip, and rosin fluxed solder.

 

My dad gave me the following pointers:

1. Always clean the joint before soldering.

2. Don't take solder to the joint on the iron.

3. Apply enough solder to the iron to "wet" it, apply to the joint and THEN bring in the solder as the joint is hot enough to let it flow.

 

I've since used a short cut for electrical soldering where two wires are to be joined: twist the wires together, wrap about 15mm of solder round the joint and then heat it from underneath with the iron.

Well if we are going there, it was only 55 years ago for me, but it was with a massive copper tipped iron, but none of this electrickery stuff.....this one was rested on a open flame......stick that one in the Exhibition safety officer’s pipe and literally smoke it 

[JeffP]

Still got one somewhere.

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Good advice with anything steel, it seems all you have to do is look at it and it starts to rust. I have brass and nickel silver items I soldered years ago still perfectly fine. Not saying do it but it depends on what material you are using, plus I guess the conditions they are kept in

My 'no acid fluxes' advice upthread was aimed purely at electrical soldering, which is what the OP was trying to do; I appreciate that soldering different metals together e.g. etched kits or whitemetal, then an acid flux is pretty much mandatory; no problem provided the acid is thoroughly cleaned off or neutralised afterwards.

[hayfield]

33 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

My 'no acid fluxes' advice upthread was aimed purely at electrical soldering, which is what the OP was trying to do; I appreciate that soldering different metals together e.g. etched kits or whitemetal, then an acid flux is pretty much mandatory; no problem provided the acid is thoroughly cleaned off or neutralised afterwards.

 

 

I totally agree with you for normal electrical and electronic wiring. But I have found that where rail is concerned because of its mass (heat dispersal) and the possibility steel rail may be concerned,  a combination of higher heat and flux is often required. The fact that plastic sleepers is a clear sign fusion is not occurring quickly. The cause could also be a dirty tip and or work, Flux can be easily neutralised as there are electrical components which would be damaged.

[57xx]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

Sometimes changing the tip for a larger one may be the issue.

 

I think this is a point people miss, instead they fixate on wattage. A fine tip that is good for soldering electronics etc is not so good for kits or soldering to rails. It does not have enough heat capacity. Switching to a larger tip or one designed for higher heat capacity will solve a lot of problems.

[doilum]

When laying new track I solder the drop wires to the track on the bench. This makes the job much easier and, done carefully, makes the feed invisible. If the track is laid and left for some time before beginning a mammoth wiring session, lookit becomes doubly difficult to achieve strong neat solder joints.

[hayfield]

27 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

I think this is a point people miss, instead they fixate on wattage. A fine tip that is good for soldering electronics etc is not so good for kits or soldering to rails. It does not have enough heat capacity. Switching to a larger tip or one designed for higher heat capacity will solve a lot of problems.

 

When I bought my solder station the retailer explained that solder stations/better quality irons can react quicker from the instant heat drain which occurs when the iron is put on the job. Example when you are trying to join a larger piece of metal (length of rail) to a smaller piece (end of a thin wire). I assume this is where the issue is in that the solder will flow easier on to the wire than the rail, as the rail is dispersing the heat more 

[SteveyDee68]

Lots of advice to take in regarding soldering methods (and again my apologies for taking the thread slightly off topic).  Will now take the time to look at the various jars and bottles in my dad's old soldering tool box, and see exactly what I have got.

 

I do have the feeling that my tip was dirty, so that is one thing to sort out.  Being a musician, I can appreciate the adage "practice makes perfect" - fortunately, making mistakes playing your instrument usually results in your pride being hurt rather than physical pain (unless the conductor/band mates/audience throw things at you!)

 

Steve S

 

PS

Was saved from any further soldering iron accidents yesterday due to picking up a dinner plate that had just been (unbeknownst to me) "warming" for 10 minutes in a 200 degree oven... I now have a complete set of little white patches of skin on all of my fingers! 

[Steamport Southport]

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[doilum]

My cheap'n cheerful £15 iron died. It had been worked daily hard with three Pecketts and St Frusquin in the last year so I looked for another. I suspect the failure might be in the flex where it got tangled with a still warm tip, but I need another small iron to replace it. So, I looked on Amazon and found something very similar. Unfortunately most irons were currently out of stock so I ended up ordering a soldering kit. My £25 has bought the iron ( clearly an upgrade on the previous) a bag of tips, stand, desoldering pump, solder, flux, some very neat tweezers and side cutters, insulating tape and a multimeter. 

Beginners, you have no excuse now!

[kevinlms]

On 05/05/2020 at 09:07, SteveyDee68 said:

 

 

My biggest problem (other than managing to touch my finger with the hot iron) was not being able to tin the end of the wire, despite trimming it back fresh.  It is also "modelling" multi strand wire.

 

The join I did get to work was with a single core wire...

 

 

Now the above could be the answer.

 

This multi strand wire, perhaps it's actually aluminium alloy? Ordinary solder won't touch it.

 

The fact your single strand wire worked suggests that it IS copper, which is probably why you're getting different results..

 

The key is to scrape the copper wire and the rail clean, just before you intend to solder it (minutes).

Take the iron to the work, start heating it up, then apply to the join.

Never put solder on the iron and then take it to the join. Doing so will burn off the inbuilt flux and prevent it from chemically cleaning the join as it melts.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Now the above could be the answer.

 

This multi strand wire, perhaps it's actually aluminium alloy? Ordinary solder won't touch it.

 

The fact your single strand wire worked suggests that it IS copper, which is probably why you're getting different results..

 

The key is to scrape the copper wire and the rail clean, just before you intend to solder it (minutes).

Take the iron to the work, start heating it up, then apply to the join.

Never put solder on the iron and then take it to the join. Doing so will burn off the inbuilt flux and prevent it from chemically cleaning the join as it melts.

Single core wire is fit only for making model fences or drainpipes in the smaller scales. No doubt someone will challenge this extreme view but those with years of experience building exhibition layouts will probably be nodding. 

The exception of course is the wire stripped from mains cable to make busbars. The model grade single core is prone to cracking and is a real pain to trace and replace.

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, doilum said:

Single core wire is fit only for making model fences or drainpipes in the smaller scales. No doubt someone will challenge this extreme view but those with years of experience building exhibition layouts will probably be nodding. 

The exception of course is the wire stripped from mains cable to make busbars. The model grade single core is prone to cracking and is a real pain to trace and replace.

Totally agree with you, I wasn't suggesting that the single strand was perfect to use - far from it. I was offering the explanation that it was copper and that why it was able to be soldered, whereas the multi strand cable couldn't be.

 

The key for using multi strand or single core is simple. If the item is subject to movement, then multi strand MUST be used, otherwise it will break and cause heartbreak with fault finding.

 

Single strand does have it's uses, an example is for Cat5e/6 data cabling between fixed locations. However patch cords should always be multi strand. Using off cuts of single strand data cable to make patch cords, is false economy.

[JeffP]

Over the years I've seen older multi strand cable oxidize along it's length, so now prefer the pretinned stuff.

 

The results of oxidation are that it is very difficult to solder, and the resistance rises.

 

I saw an extreme case of this on the positive wire from battery to starter on a Citroen Xantia. The resistance eventually became so high that it heated up enough to melt the solder in the terminal at the battery, which dropped onto the battery casing, destroying it in the process.

 

Why it had oxidized to such an extent, I never found out, but it had gone right along the entire length.

[doilum]

I think the issue lies in the modern solder. It doesn't give off the head ache inducing fumes of yesteryear. Regardless of the size or type of wire, I end up adding that sneaky touch of flux. The above mentioned kit included a small block of a resin like substance with the word " rosin" on the box. The instruction booklet described it as " solder paste to assist process", but looks like flux paste.

I recall that when I started out, almost fifty years ago, my solder came from the car accessories shop in an aluminium dispenser with the words " Rosin multicore solder" on the side. Turns out that rosin is a concentrated cannabis resin! Everyday a learning day.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

Over the years I've seen older multi strand cable oxidize along it's length, so now prefer the pretinned stuff.

 

The results of oxidation are that it is very difficult to solder, and the resistance rises.

 

I saw an extreme case of this on the positive wire from battery to starter on a Citroen Xantia. The resistance eventually became so high that it heated up enough to melt the solder in the terminal at the battery, which dropped onto the battery casing, destroying it in the process.

 

Why it had oxidized to such an extent, I never found out, but it had gone right along the entire length.

That is very, very unusual......it’s definitely not recommended to solder vehicle battery leads, they should be machine crimped.

 

Its sounds like a repair/replacement was carried out previously and not very well either.

[sharris]

My venerable Antex 690 SD is still going strong after I’ve forgotten how many years, but has recently started playing ‘guess the temperature’ as 3 segments on the display have failed.

 

 

(It’s supposed to say 350C)

 

It’s the best iron I’ve used and still quite usable, but should it fail to the point where I can’t set the temperature in the future what would be a fitting replacement?

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, sharris said:

My venerable Antex 690 SD is still going strong after I’ve forgotten how many years, but has recently started playing ‘guess the temperature’ as 3 segments on the display have failed.

 

 

(It’s supposed to say 350C)

 

It’s the best iron I’ve used and still quite usable, but should it fail to the point where I can’t set the temperature in the future what would be a fitting replacement?

Maybe the soldering has failed? Of course you need a soldering iron, to fix that!

[sharris]

6 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Maybe the soldering has failed? Of course you need a soldering iron, to fix that!

 

Quite possibly - I’ll have to see how easy it is to disassemble. I do have an even older Antex 18W (or might be 15, can’t remember) iron from the 1980s that I used to use for soldering PCBs before I got the 690.

[boxbrownie]

5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Maybe the soldering has failed? Of course you need a soldering iron, to fix that!

My first thought was....”you have a soldering iron, mend it” 

[doilum]

55 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

My first thought was....”you have a soldering iron, mend it” 

That is why I bought the new kit. It took less than ten minutes to repair the old one using the flex recycled from a paper shredder. One slight note of caution, the original cheap iron had the wiring colours juxtaposed. The pink wire went from the "N" terminal to the neutral on the plug and the blue wire connected the positives! One bonus is that the new lead is about six inches longer and so more user friendly.

[RexAshton]

On 10/05/2020 at 16:11, kevinlms said:

Maybe the soldering has failed? Of course you need a soldering iron, to fix that!

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering/soldering-stations/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron/

[hayfield]

56 minutes ago, RexAshton said:

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering/soldering-stations/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron/

 

 

I followed someones advice and bought the same direct rather than via eBay

 

Very pleased with it

[RexAshton]

38 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

I followed someones advice and bought the same direct rather than via eBay

 

Very pleased with it

I've bought mine direct about five years ago. Just worn out the iron but they're only £15 ish for a replacement. As a commission builder it does a lot of hard work so I'm very happy with it.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, RexAshton said:

I've bought mine direct about five years ago. Just worn out the iron but they're only £15 ish for a replacement. As a commission builder it does a lot of hard work so I'm very happy with it.

 

I bought a selection of 10 tips of varying styles and sizes, should have bought I should have bought a second