locomotive kits 30368's Workbench SR Loco's with a bit of LNER

[30368]

Having completed a fair amount of work on my 70D layout I couldn't resist building another loco for a break from creating a little version of Basingstoke Engine shed.

 

I bought the DJH B16 kit a few years ago at the Darlington MRS show. It was a good buy at £50. It is a very old kit with big thick brass frames and obsolete bogie and tender wheels. I have a spare High Level two stage gearbox and big coreless motor that will do the job. I have located some used and cheap Markits 23mm drivers.

 

That's the beast.

KIt has no provision for brake gear so the pivot points have been marked out for drilling.

 

Frames assembled but still require alignment in the Poppy jig.

 

 

KInd regards,

 

Richard B

Edited February 17, 2023 by 30368

[jwealleans]

I have a feeling the cab roof is too high and arched on this kit, but I'm sure you'll be referring to drawings.

[30368]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

but I'm sure you'll be referring to drawings.

Thanks Jonathan.

 

I don't have a 4mm drawing but have a copy of Ken Hoole's book which has a copy of the GA that can be scaled, although no view of the spectacle plate is included! I can usually rely on my "good eye" too, D R Dunn's book on the Raven B16's is full of very good images.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited February 17, 2023 by 30368

[Pebbles]

19 hours ago, 30368 said:

Thanks Jonathan.

 

I don't have a 4mm drawing but have a copy of Ken Hoole's book which has a copy of the GA that can be scaled, although no view of the spectacle plate is included! I can usually rely on my "good eye" too, D R Dunn's book on the Raven B16's is full of very good images.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Isinglass  Drawing No 421 should help. I should add that the more detailed information you get the less enamoured you will be with the accuracy of the kit.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Pebbles

[30368]

On 18/02/2023 at 12:40, Pebbles said:

Isinglass  Drawing No 421 should help. I should add that the more detailed information you get the less enamoured you will be with the accuracy of the kit.

 

Many thanks for the drawing reference, will order tomorrow. Ah well, I shall do my best to correct as many of the errors as possible by scratch building if necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

The wheels and axles arrived at the weekend so chassis placed in the jig for alignment. Slightly slackened off chassis post set screws to align and then nipped up when satisfied.

 

I should add that I repositioned chassis so that it was square before tightening up the set screws!

 

Wheels are early Romford/Markits type but they should look fine when painted and weathered. This is a budget build! I hope to complete it for around £150.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited February 20, 2023 by 30368

[30368]

And on to the Highflier gearbox, which, went together very easily. The only tricky part being pressing on the brass spacer to the Stage 1 shaft. The spacer is chamfered at one end and this should be the end offered to the shaft. I use a fairly large drill vice (soft jaws) to press the shaft onto the spacer and then tap it the last mm or two with a small "toffee" hammer. The gearbox frame is fairly strong but you need to be gentle with this process.

 

Given the width of the frames, both the gearbox and frame 1/8 inch bearings need to be filed back so that the gearbox will fit between the frames.

Close up of the worm, drive end of the gearbox

 

The motor end of the gearbox

 

You will need to remove a fair amount around the motor securing holes in the gearbox frame to achieve the correct worm/axlegear mesh. Removing this material requires 14BA washers to be used to ensure motor security. The set screws supplied with the motor were also a little too long.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited February 20, 2023 by 30368

[micklner]

Interesting .

I have built a number of Roadrunner and other HL boxes (not the Highflier version). The Brass spacer on all of mine were simple sliding fit onto the rod , they were all slightly loose, not at all tight.

I presume the Motor is one of HL new motors ? , I have never used this actual motor, again surprised re fitting issues as again I have never had a problem with meshing or mounting screws on all of mine.

Has HL enclosed any fitting instructions with the motor ?

[30368]

Hi Mick,

 

Strange, I have built a number of (various) HL gearboxes and have never had a brass spacer that just slides on to the shaft. I could open out the bore with a broach I guess and then it would. The benefit of a push fit is that it locates the shaft and gear without the (suspect) use of glue to stop the shaft from dropping out of the gearbox housing. The motor is indeed one of the HL Coreless Motors. I have found all versions very powerful (lots of torque) for their size.

 

WRT meshing, again, I have never had a motor/gearbox that did not require some adjustment to set the mesh correctly. In this build, the 14BA washers are also "shortening" the set screws since as I mentioned, they are a little too long.

 

As to fitting instructions for the motor, most of the HL instructions can be downloaded from their site.

 

All in all, I have found HL gearboxes easy to assemble resulting in a usually smooth and silent gearbox.

 

I have ordered Isinglass  Drawing No 421 for the B16/1 and based on Pebbles comments above, once received I may wish that I had not started this build! The DJH kit can't be that bad can it?

 

We shall see...

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[t-b-g]

There are some HL gearboxes where the positioning of the gear on the shaft is taken care of because another gear stops it moving sideways and there are others where there is nothing else to prevent it moving along the shaft. These latter ones have the brass collar spacer. On the last one I made, I had to run a broach through the collar to slide it onto the shaft. It didn't need much and I thought it was probably just down to a slight burr on the inside of the hole.

 

The late Malcolm Crawley built a DJH D16 and a Steve Barnfield (now with London Road) etched kit. When you put the two side by side, the Barnfield kit looked much better. I always thought the boiler on the DJH one was either too small in diameter or too high up. There seemed to be too much daylight under the boiler and the smokebox saddle didn't seem quite right but it wasn't my loco so I never got to do any measuring or checking to see just where it was out.

[micklner]

58 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Hi Mick,

 

Strange, I have built a number of (various) HL gearboxes and have never had a brass spacer that just slides on to the shaft. I could open out the bore with a broach I guess and then it would. The benefit of a push fit is that it locates the shaft and gear without the (suspect) use of glue to stop the shaft from dropping out of the gearbox housing. The motor is indeed one of the HL Coreless Motors. I have found all versions very powerful (lots of torque) for their size.

 

WRT meshing, again, I have never had a motor/gearbox that did not require some adjustment to set the mesh correctly. In this build, the 14BA washers are also "shortening" the set screws since as I mentioned, they are a little too long.

 

As to fitting instructions for the motor, most of the HL instructions can be downloaded from their site.

 

All in all, I have found HL gearboxes easy to assemble resulting in a usually smooth and silent gearbox.

 

I have ordered Isinglass  Drawing No 421 for the B16/1 and based on Pebbles comments above, once received I may wish that I had not started this build! The DJH kit can't be that bad can it?

 

We shall see...

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

I must have been lucky so far !!.

 

I steer clear of DJH, where there alternative much more recent kits available. I have built their Thompson A2/3 , Raven and Peppercorn A2's , Raven C7 and a D20 , in the past .

 

The old fashioned Brass strip frames and some very very heavy innacurate castings are nowdays avoided by myself.

 

I have no personal knowledge of the DJH B16 , the clearance issues with the front Bogie and Cylinders are well known.

 

Good Luck.

[Michael Edge]

The brass spacer is supposed to be a sliding fit on the shaft but I usually have to drill them out. The hard shafting supplied is very useful to grind into a D bit to open this and all the holes to 2mm. I replace the shafting with brass, much easier to work with, there’s no wear on it.

[30368]

Thanks for all the tips guys.

 

Motor and gearbox all assembled and pick-ups added. Gearbox/motor assembly runs very smoothly although chassis does not make much headway with the only centre wheels driven.

Images and drawings (the drawing arrived today) make it clear that the coupling rods are too wide. I have reduced them and whilst the look is improved, particularly in relation to the connecting rods, I will try to take off a little more. Incidently, noted that I have two L/H connecting rods! Simple to fix by removing the oil box and re-fixing in the correct position.

 

I have had a cursory look at the drawing and compared the castings to it. The spectacle plate looks to be ok with a fairly accurate roof radius. The boiler however will need some correction. I had already decided to wrap the smokebox with thin brass sheet to add the rivet detail but the smokebox will need more attention than that as will the firebox. Both are too short. I will probably have to clean off all the boiler bands too since they are in the wrong position. This is not a problem since the loco will be in BR MT livery so the transfers will restore the bands in the correct position.

The boiler diameter seems ok to drawing.

 

 

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited February 23, 2023 by 30368

[30368]

Coupling and connecting rods now fitted. The chassis is very free running with (so far) no need to ease crankpin clearances. I now move on to those cylinders that will require a fair bit of fettling before I can assemble. I will be adding some extra detail too.

 

Coupling rods look ok now I have removed more material and added the split rod detail that will require further work to finish. The connecting rods now ok although the RH one requires a little more cleaning up.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

Pleased to say that the main chassis assembly is now completed and running very well. The bogie wheels are temporary pending replacements ordered from Colin at Alan Gibson. Had a great chat with Colin and as always he was helpful.

 

Running in on the SW Main LIne - temporary occupation.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Chas Levin]

Hello Richard, interested to read that you use this method (up against a Heavy Thing) for running in (I should say I'm a relative beginner having only built two locos) because I'd read that running in should be done without any load. Assuming it's fine to do it this way I'm pleaseed to hear it as my layout isn't operational all the time and running in this way on my test track would be a useful extra way of doing the job.

Have you ever heard of any reasons in favour or against this method?

[30368]

I have painted the chassis and driving wheels and left to dry.

 

I have turned my attention to the boiler which requires a lot of work. If the two boiler halves are soldered together then the result with my castings will be a boiler tapered towards the firebox.... not ideal. I have removed the boiler bands and then fitted a brass insert at the firebox end to make the boiler parallel. The smokebox front is correct to drawing so that has been my "template".

 

brass insert glued in place, makeshift spacers to keep the boiler halves square.

 

A fair amount of adjustment needed!

 

Low melt solder on the bottom and top seams, rest will be filled and cleaned up.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Have you ever heard of any reasons in favour or against this method?

 

None Chas. This method relies on the low coeffecient of friction between the wheels and the rail, which is fairly low anyway and I add a smidgen of lub oil to the track anyway so the load is not that great. The oil wipes off and creates a nice stain on the track ballast too!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

 

Started to re-assemble the chassis, but before doing so the brake hangers and blocks have been added. I still need to add hanger mounting brackets and the brake pull-rods but I will leave this until I am satisfied with the chassis running qualities.

Boiler work continues...

 

 

 

PS Some progress with the boiler, smokebox wrapper fitted. I have measured the centreline of the boiler from rail level and bufferbeam and compared to drawing - it is now spot on. I removed about 1mm from the smokebox saddle.

 

 

 

 

KInd regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by 30368

[30368]

Chassis now re-assembled with Alan Gibson 3ft bogie wheels.

 

Boiler has a further insert added to fill the overlarge motor cut-out and extend the full diameter section.

 

The two lower wash out plugs (added in the 1930's) have been fitted.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited March 1, 2023 by 30368

[Blandford1969]

Which brake hangers did you use, Wizard models ones?

 

[30368]

1 hour ago, Blandford1969 said:

Which brake hangers did you use, Wizard models ones

 

Mainly Trains SR Loco Fret, it looked very similar to the brake hangers/blocks fitted to the S3/B16. I still have to fit the hanger mounting brackets and pull rods etc.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[mikemeg]

Richard,

 

Interesting to watch your progress with the DJH B16/1. Like you, I bought this kit some years ago at a discounted price. Unlike you, however, as I examined the contents of the box I very quickly became totally disenchanted with it, to the extent that apart from a few castings, I chucked the entire thing away.

 

It was this experience which prompted me to volunteer to complete the development of the LRM / Steve Barnfield etched kit for the B16/1 by designing some additions to the etches to produce the two different boilers which were fitted to the B16/1's through their lives. New etches for the splashers were also added as some later locomotives were built with plain splashers as opposed to the beaded splashers carried by most of the B16's. I test built this etched kit - twice - to check out the original etchings and the additions and then, finally, produced the instructions

 

I have to confess that I added a lot of newer castings and etchings, mostly from Arthur Kimber's range,  to the original model and did some limited scratch building as well. One of the problems with the B16 is the large distance between the front driving wheels and the bogie such that the front bogie wheels (and the rear ones also) potentially foul the cylinders around curves, though I didn't encounter this problem as my minimum radius curve is 4' 6". Allegedly it is this problem which has prevented the r-t-r guys from producing a B16.

 

The two photographs, below, show : -

 

a B16/1 with beaded splashers and the original NER boiler (note the location of the dome)

 

a B16/1 with the LNER designed boiler - firebox was 6" longer and the boiler 6" shorter with the dome placed further to the rear. This model also carries the plain sided splashers, which were a feature of those B16's built after grouping, under the auspices of the LNER.

 

Worth mentioning that the two different boiler types continued to be fitted, interchangeably, throughout the lives of these locomotives, such that many were withdrawn carrying an earlier NER boiler though having previously carried a later LNER designed boiler.  The position of the boiler bands does vary according to which boiler pattern is fitted. The Isinglass drawing does show both boiler types with details, for each locomotive, of which types were carried and when.

 

Anyway, best of luck with your build.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by mikemeg

[Pebbles]

I'm fairly certain that the DJH B16 is under length and the foreshortening occurs between the bogie and the main wheels. This may have been intentional as reducing the total wheel base reduces required bogie movement.  

[30368]

18 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

I'm fairly certain that the DJH B16 is under length and the foreshortening occurs between the bogie and the main wheels.

You are quite correct. The main wheelbase is correct but the leading driver centre to trailing bogie wheel centre is just over 2mm too short or 6". I might investigate correcting this if it does not affect running on my main line...

 

As to the kit in general I think it is ok, it is a fairly old design I guess. It has required a lot of additional work to make a reasonable version of the prototype and there is still more to do. I don't mind that. I have built LRM kits too and they are not without fault in some cases, indeed this is true of most kit manufacturers. I am just pleased they are out there supporting our hobby and in my case, keeping me occupied!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B