Why is their no budget range for the younger modeller to get into this hobby?

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

Yet an X-Box is considerably dearer than an introductory train set that includes controller, track, loco and coaches/wagons. And further wagons/coaches and track seems to be on a par with x-box games.

 

I think the exclusive focus on games consoles as ‘competition’ with model railways may be being slightly overemphasised. The craft/model-making group of people I was thinking of wouldn’t be so interested in these but might see railway modelling as an extension of other ‘making’ activities.

Edited August 19, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[Binky]

15 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

And this would also allow it to be a ‘social’ hobby, which was mentioned earlier. The main issue for younger modellers in this particular suggestion is the requirement for independent transport though. Perhaps it could fold to fit into a case that would go on public transport.

 

When I raced radio controlled cars (another "social" hobby that can be set up in a vilage hall and packed away again) the majority of young participants came by car with a parent but there's nothing to say modules couldn't be designed to be folded in on themselves for easy transport if the builder used removable buildings or low profile senery.

[009 micro modeller]

20 minutes ago, Binky said:

When I raced radio controlled cars (another "social" hobby that can be set up in a vilage hall and packed away again) the majority of young participants came by car with a parent

 

Apologies, it wasn’t meant as a criticism, I was just thinking about how it could work for older kids or if their parents weren’t able/willing to take them.

 

As a further alternative angle on this, how much scope would you say there is within radio controlled car racing to make or do stuff at home in between meets? I only ask as I’d thought earlier about whether you could have a form of model railway exhibition/meeting/gathering specifically where those who don’t have a layout at home bring their stock to run on a large layout set up for the day. Obviously this is hardly a new concept, but it might become more popular within some of the ideas posted here (including mine), that would seem to allow or encourage people to create their own locos and stock before getting to the stage of building a layout.

 

Edit: actually I think I’ve just basically described a modular meet-up in which not everyone attending has a module but everyone has rolling stock. But the real question is - how does the appeal and practice of something like RC car racing, where people own individual vehicles rather than a ‘layout,’ differ from railway modelling?

Edited August 19, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[DK123GWR]

24 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Perhaps it could fold to fit into a case that would go on public transport.

I'm imagining a wooden case around 1000x200x100 (perhaps slightly shorter, wider, and deeper) which you could fit a BLT or shunting puzzle into. This would have two 'mouths' in each end where rolling stock could enter or exit (you only have to use one of course). The manufacturer could then pre-fit alignment dowels into each case so that they can be easily aligned with each other (as long as the track is laid square at the edge of the board of course). They could also sell fiddle yard boards separately, which could be used not only as fiddle yards, but to connect layouts using only one mouth to those using both. A simpler, but more limiting, alternative would be to stick with a single mouth at each end of the box.

[009 micro modeller]

8 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I'm imagining a wooden case around 1000x200x100 (perhaps slightly shorter, wider, and deeper) which you could fit a BLT or shunting puzzle into. This would have two 'mouths' in each end where rolling stock could enter or exit (you only have to use one of course). The manufacturer could then pre-fit alignment dowels into each case so that they can be easily aligned with each other (as long as the track is laid square at the edge of the board of course). They could also sell fiddle yard boards separately, which could be used not only as fiddle yards, but to connect layouts using only one mouth to those using both. A simpler, but more limiting, alternative would be to stick with a single mouth at each end of the box.

 

Would you also have the basic wiring between modules pre-finished (assuming track power would be used)? I wonder whether pre-fitting a few inches of track at the board joins might also be helpful...

 

See here for an interesting use of the XTS system, a sort of modular N gauge toy: http://lone.net/trains/carendt.morphoist.com/scrapbook/page51/index.html

Edited August 19, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[Binky]

25 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Apologies, it wasn’t meant as a criticism, I was just thinking about how it could work for older kids or if their parents weren’t able/willing to take them.

 

As a further alternative angle on this, how much scope would you say there is within radio controlled car racing to make or do stuff at home in between meets? I only ask as I’d thought earlier about whether you could have a form of model railway exhibition/meeting/gathering specifically where those who don’t have a layout at home bring their stock to run on a large layout set up for the day. Obviously this is hardly a new concept, but it might become more popular within some of the ideas posted here (including mine), that would seem to allow or encourage people to create their own locos and stock before getting to the stage of building a layout.

 

Don't worry, I didn't take it as a criticism, just thinking that if the interest was there, transport would probably not be a problem for a significant number of the participants, however making the modules easily transportable as a case would make a module system like this accessible to even more people.

 

Depending on the formula of RC racing time between meets was usually passed with preparing/repairing cars (it was quite common to cut out and paint a new vacuum formed body shell if the old one got damaged, and most chassies had many different designs of shell that would fit, sound familiar?) or for some parts of the hobby like 4x4 Land Rovers, Hiluxes etc they could be taken for a solitary drive when not being used at a miniature 4x4 competition.

 

I'm not a member of a model railway club so I'm sure someone who is will tell me if this is the case or not, but can people not join a club then run their models on a club layout? I can certainly see the appeal of building/buying trains then being able to to take them somewhere to run them or watch them go by, take photos etc.

 

25 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I'm imagining a wooden case around 1000x200x100 (perhaps slightly shorter, wider, and deeper) which you could fit a BLT or shunting puzzle into. This would have two 'mouths' in each end where rolling stock could enter or exit (you only have to use one of course). The manufacturer could then pre-fit alignment dowels into each case so that they can be easily aligned with each other (as long as the track is laid square at the edge of the board of course). They could also sell fiddle yard boards separately, which could be used not only as fiddle yards, but to connect layouts using only one mouth to those using both. A simpler, but more limiting, alternative would be to stick with a single mouth at each end of the box.

 

This is the sort of system I was imagining too, perhaps a baseboard/case that folds in half to the size of your average train set/scalextric box and acting as part of the trainset box itself, carryable like a suitcase, with one common "mainline" running across the front edge already, to which purchasers can add the rest of their track and customise as they like. Like all module systems as long as the in/out of the main line stays the same and all the interfaces are compatible there is plenty of scope for modellers to modify and customise the rest of their layout (and even allowing people to build their own compatible baseboard).

Edited August 19, 2020 by Binky

[grahame]

33 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I think the exclusive focus on games consoles as ‘competition’ with model railways may be being slightly overemphasised. The craft/model-making group of people I was thinking of wouldn’t be so interested in these but might see railway modelling as an extension of other ‘making’ activities.

 

I don't think it is over emphasised. Electronic games and similar devises are very popular with youngsters these days. If it was simply about cheap constructive hobbies we'd be seeing lots of home made kites being flown, there'd be more plastic kit making clubs, scouts would be better patronised, etc., And unfortunately when you get to other constructive hobbies, like radio controlled model planes, cars and tanks, they are just as expensive as model trains so it's not as though railway modelling is priced out of consideration.

 

And other pastimes like sports can be pretty expensive; golf, ice skating, scuba diving, sailing, cycling, go-karting, etc. Even cricket has a minimum spend of helmet, gloves, pads, bat and club and match fees, while playing competitive football isn't cheap when you factor in boots, pitch hire, club fees, etc.

 

I think the issue is engaging youngsters and making them enthusiastic about railway modelling. Cheap product is very unlikely to do that. But I'd still like to hear the OP's reasoning and see any supporting evidence.

 

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

On 19/08/2020 at 22:44, grahame said:

I don't think it is over emphasised. Electronic games and similar devises are very popular with youngsters these days.

 

I am under 25 and know quite a few people in my own age group who are not particularly interested in electronic games but are interested in craft activities. The same applies to the school-age kids that I have worked with as part of the volunteering that I do.

 

That said, there are plenty of others who are into these sorts of games, and I don’t know how this will change in the next few years. I tend to think that while my generation learnt about computers from a relatively young age and are thus seen as very ‘computer literate,’ kids growing up now often have so much contact with them that they will almost instinctively know how to use them.

 

I think the main point is that in aligning railway modelling with ‘craft’ rather than ‘tech’ hobbies,* you increase its appeal to a group who are less likely to be interested in competing electronic games. I’m not sure whether this shift of focus and inclusion of more creative aspects would help to overcome railways not being seen as ‘cool’ though.

 

 

*Possibly there is a slightly better way of phrasing or categorising this.

 

On 19/08/2020 at 22:43, Binky said:

Depending on the formula of RC racing time between meets was usually passed with preparing/repairing cars (it was quite common to cut out and paint a new vacuum formed body shell if the old one got damaged, and most chassies had many different designs of shell that would fit, sound familiar?) or for some parts of the hobby like 4x4 Land Rovers, Hiluxes etc they could be taken for a solitary drive when not being used at a miniature 4x4 competition.

 

It all sounds really interesting, although I’m not sure a competitive aspect (which I think is probably a big part of the appeal) could really be incorporated in railway modelling in quite the same way.

Edited July 10, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[Binky]

6 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I am under 25 and no quite a few people in my own age group who are not particularly interested in electronic games but are interested in craft activities. The same applies to the school-age kids that I have worked with as part of the volunteering that I do.

 

That said, there are plenty of others who are into these sorts of games, and I don’t know how this will change in the next few years. I tend to think that while my generation learnt about computers from a relatively young age and are thus seen as very ‘computer literate,’ kids growing up now often have so much contact with them that they will almost instinctively know how to use them.

 

I think the main point is that in aligning railway modelling with ‘craft’ rather than ‘tech’ hobbies,* you increase its appeal to a group who are less likely to be interested in competing electronic games. I’m not sure whether this shift of focus and inclusion of more creative aspects would help to overcome railways not being seen as ‘cool’ though.

 

 

*Possibly there is a slightly better way of phrasing or categorising this.

 

 

It all sounds really interesting, although I’m not sure a competitive aspect (which I think is probably a big part of the appeal) could really be incorporated in railway modelling in quite the same way.

 

I can probably reply to both these comments by saying that the vast majority of RC modellers I encountered did it because they were replicating something they were already interested in (a certain motorsport formula or type of car). Although it's slightly off subject I think most people will be attracted to railway modelling because they actually have an interest in railways, those who just like building things may buy the odd train kit or two among the other kits they buy but won't necessarily become full on railway modellers.

[009 micro modeller]

8 minutes ago, Binky said:

 

I can probably reply to both these comments by saying that the vast majority of RC modellers I encountered did it because they were replicating something they were already interested in (a certain motorsport formula or type of car). Although it's slightly off subject I think most people will be attracted to railway modelling because they actually have an interest in railways, those who just like building things may buy the odd train kit or two among the other kits they buy but won't necessarily become full on railway modellers.

 

What I was getting at is, could there be a form of railway modelling in which people essentially own a loco (a bit like there already is for garden railways and model engineering) and their hobby is all about building, operating, maintaining and improving the loco (and maybe stock to go with it) and running it at events/meetings (sort of like RC car racing) rather than having a complete layout? I don’t think I would like this myself as I like building small layouts but some people would probably enjoy it. This may be less relevant to the OP’s post though.

Edited August 19, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[Dungrange]

53 minutes ago, Binky said:

I'm not a member of a model railway club so I'm sure someone who is will tell me if this is the case or not, but can people not join a club then run their models on a club layout? I can certainly see the appeal of building/buying trains then being able to to take them somewhere to run them or watch them go by, take photos etc.

 

Yes.  My own club does not own any rolling stock.  Everything that runs on our club layouts is brought along by our members.  In the case of an exhibition, we only use stock belonging to certain members who own stock suitable for the period / location of the model and has been tested previously, but on club nights it can be anything goes.  No reason not to have post privatisation stock running alongside pre-grouping stock and sometimes a half built or unpainted kit as well.  It's a good way of showing off a new purchase or something that you've built.

 

 

[grahame]

8 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I think the main point is that in aligning railway modelling with ‘craft’ rather than ‘tech’ hobbies,* you increase its appeal to a group who are less likely to be interested in competing electronic games. I’m not sure whether this shift of focus and inclusion of more creative aspects would help to overcome railways not being seen as ‘cool’ though.

 

 

No-one is suggesting that railway modelling is an electronic game playing devise type hobby but such games are very popular (just check out the sales of games) and as such those techy games are a competitive alternative to craft hobbies. Likewise so too are sports, and other more sedentary pastimes like numismatics, philately, twitching, angling, and so on, although their popularity also seems to be in decline.

 

Aligning railway modelling as 'craft' rather than a 'tech' hobby is unlikely to improve appeal. After all these days it is already considered to be a constructive craft hobby, although now many 'enthusiasts' do very little actual self reliant modelling, preferring to collect and/or play with RTR. Consequently I'd suggest that perhaps many railway modellers are less concerning about the price of RTR; which may also provide a stumbling block to manufacturers offering a budget range.  

 

However, one of the things that manufacturers have been doing to make railway models more attractive is to improve the 'play value' of their products (with electronic wizardry like sound, operating features, DCC, and so on) although that, of course, increases prices and may well appeal to the more 'techy' youngsters rather than craft modellers.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

I think there is a fundamental truth about our hobby that few of us seem willing to confront.

 

It is that, most who have been involved in it for any substantial period, became interested in railways, and by extension, model railways, when both constituted "mainstream" pastimes. The depth of our involvement has fluctuated over time in order to fit in with other aspect of life, but the roots go way back.

 

People's lives, and railways themselves have changed drastically over the past half century and railways have ceased to have a direct relevance to the general populace in anything like the numbers they used to. For most who do still use them, they have assumed the role of a utility, like gas, electricity or water suppliers. For those who don't, they have became objects of indifference, or even contempt. It's therefore totally unrealistic to expect new devotees to be attracted to the railway scene in the numbers we were, growing up between (say) 1955 and 1980. 

 

Against that background, how can we possibly consider that there will be sufficient new entrants to the hobby to replace even half of those of us who will inevitably leave it over the next over the next couple of decades? The post-war baby boom is working its way out of the demographic, and that has implications far beyond our hobby.

 

"The Trade" is (to put it bluntly) making hay while the sun shines, catering for a hobby dominated by the early-retired on final-salary pensions and with a stake in the "property-owning economy" (yes, I'm one). But that can't possibly last forever with all three becoming less the norm.

 

In terms of the depth and breadth of r-t-r on offer to us, we have literally "never had it so good" but the medium-to-long-term future will, almost certainly, be one of retrenchment with suppliers diversifying into new fields in order to survive.  

 

Making cheap trains is almost certainly not the answer...

 

John

   

Edited August 20, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Dungrange]

29 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I am under 25 and no quite a few people in my own age group who are not particularly interested in electronic games but are interested in craft activities. The same applies to the school-age kids that I have worked with as part of the volunteering that I do.

 

That said, there are plenty of others who are into these sorts of games, and I don’t know how this will change in the next few years. I tend to think that while my generation learnt about computers from a relatively young age and are thus seen as very ‘computer literate,’ kids growing up now often have so much contact with them that they will almost instinctively know how to use them.

 

I think the main point is that in aligning railway modelling with ‘craft’ rather than ‘tech’ hobbies,* you increase its appeal to a group who are less likely to be interested in competing electronic games. I’m not sure whether this shift of focus and inclusion of more creative aspects would help to overcome railways not being seen as ‘cool’ though.

 

I think this is part of the problem.  I'd describe young boys as a reasonably homogeneous group.  From a young age, just about all seem to be interested in bin lorries and fire engines.  Just about all seem to develop an interest in toy cars and even trains: my son was interested in both Thomas and Chuggington before he went to school and we posses both a wooden railway and Chuggington train set. 

 

However, during primary school, children seem to become less homogenous, some become more focused on sport, others on tech and others on crafts and their interests partly determine their friendships.  My son has no interest in model railways - the only way I'd be able to hook him into the hobby would be via a high tech offering - something like using Arduino's to produce a response to an input which might just be the movement of a train.  The details of the railway would be unimportant.  Coding a railway simulator would probably be even better.  My daughter on the other hand, despite her obsession with Minecraft, is much more likely to be attracted to model railways as a craft because she enjoys making things, especially in Lego.  To her, weathering wagons is a bit like putting on makeup!

 

This is why I think it's difficult to target an older child / teenage market.  Once they get to school they realise there is a choice and they like some things better than others and music, girls etc will divert the attention of many young boys away from something like model railways.

 

The ideas being discussed by you and others clearly have some merit in bringing a few more people into the hobby, but I don't see it as a large market and it's certainly not where I'd be putting my money if I was to become a manufacturer, but I'm not.

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I’m not sure what the OP’s rationale was,

Maybe we'll never know as the OP seems to have disappeared!

[009 micro modeller]

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

It is that, most who have been involved in it for any substantial period, became interested in railways, and by extension, model railways, when both constituted "mainstream" pastimes.

 

I didn’t. But I suppose that, in one sense, my views on what I would have liked when I was getting into the hobby (or those of any younger modellers) are just as irrelevant in this as the views of older modellers, since we are already in the hobby and the OP’s question is more about how to encourage young people who are not.

 

On a slightly related note, I’m not even sure that railway modelling needs to be a mainstream hobby to survive in some form and be enjoyable for people who are actually interested in it. Lots of hobbies and interests are even more niche but survive thanks to the determination and genuine interest of a small group of people and usually some form of small-scale commercial support. Whenever threads like this come up on RMWeb I always wonder if some people, in thinking about the future of the hobby as a whole, have placed a bit too much emphasis on the importance of (mostly 00) mainstream RTR manufacturers continuing to be viable in their current form. The whole hobby does not depend on this, although obviously there has to be something initially to help beginners get involved while they are still developing skills. But in future the way that beginners get into railway modelling may not look like the RTR train sets seen currently or in the past.

 

On the other hand, presumably there is some sort of market for basic 00 train sets, otherwise Hornby wouldn’t continue to make them. But they could be being bought by non-modellers who just want a one-off toy or display item and wouldn’t be interested in buying further add-on items.

[woodenhead]

14 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I've always argued that a good train set must include a siding.

A clever train set would include 2 sidings or a passing loop - then you have somewhere to put another train, if you only have the one train in the trainset then you need to buy another train for the other siding.

 

If the train set is only big enough to hold one loco in a siding then a one loco railway it shall stay.

[Dunsignalling]

My point was that, the railway and model railway interest that grew up in the 1950s amounted to something much larger than could happen today because it didn't attract opprobrium from ones peers it does now.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It's the sheer numbers of participants recruited in that heyday that we cannot realistically expect to replace 1-for 1, (or anything approaching it) as we fall by the wayside. 

 

It was also a time when a lack of family disposable income made spotting a cheap leisure activity for the young, sarnies and bottle of pop in your duffle bag, on your bike after breakfast and out 'til teatime without spending anything.

 

However, on current form, the newcomers we do attract to the hobby seem, in the main, to be in early middle age. Their aspirations, demands and resources are very different to those anybody of primary school age would have, but at least they definitely exist.  The $64,000 dollar question is, of course, how long that will continue to be so.  

 

John

[Firecracker]

Thought I’d chuck my 10p in.  To answer the OP’s question, in my opinion there’s no cheap range because there’s not a sufficient return in it for the manufacturer.  Simples...

 

 Am I worried about the future of the hobby?  No, having seen the Oxford diecast tent at Dorset steam fair, with a steady stream of kid going away clutching cars and vehicles for their layouts/trainsets and having just looked through the Britain’s model trains supplement that came with model rail.

 

However, first, let me tell my own story, then I’ll chuck some numbers at it.  I got interested in model railways whilst at primary school.  Went to someone’s house for tea, saw the layout in the attic, had to be dragged out, etc.  My father (not wanting to spend money on something I might not retain an interest in) rattles the cages of various colleagues at work (this is early-mid 80’s) and a quantity of secondhand Hornby and triang came my way.  This grew, but alongside Lego, Britain’s farm, airfix kits, warhammer etc (note, my father regarded computer games as a total waste of technology, so my hobbies were always hands on).  I entered my teens and started my first job, at about the same time Hornby and Bachmann started to get their act together, so the local model shop did nicely out of me.

 

Went to university, built a layout to fit in a college room for a bet, the hobby (along with a flourishing book habit) grew.  Then I had a bit of a 10 year sabbatical, due to personal circumstances (buying a house, new job) and the hobby seeming to get stuck in a rut.  I returned about 3 years ago.  

 

I’m doing my bit to encourage the next generation, a cousin (who’s since got distracted by women and bike road racing) was pointed at a box of surplus stock and invited to have a rummage (as have others).  I’ve had a very enthusiastic young  visitor (offspring of a friend), who’s currently got a massive brio setup who I think has been bitten by the bug as well.

 

Price, I’ve jsut quickly browsed the websites of two of the big box shifters and if you’ve got 60-90 quid in your pocket there’s some damned nice new locos sat on their shelves.  If you’re under 18, minimum wage is £4.50 an hour, for sake of arguement, call it 30 hours work gets you a nice engine (if you’re saving up and have nothing else to blow it on, I’m assuming  haven’t discovered the opposite sex and alcohol).  Relating numbers back to ‘in the day’ is hard, when I was a kid birthdays and Christmas presents were about £30, I could combine them if I wanted.  Somewhere around here I’ve got the box of a Bachmann standard tank which I bought when it was first released, think the original sticker price was about 60 quid.  Seriously, when you’re starting off, how many locos have you got?  

 

Personally, I think the hobbies in a better position than it’s been for years, due to the support that’s available, both information and materials.  From this forum to premade baseboard kits, YouTube tutorials, materials available to order (when I started modelling seriously, woodlands scenics was this wonderful American stuff that all these stunning layouts in the magazines used and I had to wangle with the parents a day out to Carlisle to get any), 3D printing (isn’t the body kits mentioned earlier up the page what Hardy’s hobbies are doing?)

 

Owain

 

[Binky]

23 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

On a slightly related note, I’m not even sure that railway modelling needs to be a mainstream hobby to survive in some form and be enjoyable for people who are actually interested in it. Lots of hobbies and interests are even more niche but survive thanks to the determination and genuine interest of a small group of people and usually some form of small-scale commercial support. Whenever threads like this come up on RMWeb I always wonder if some people, in thinking about the future of the hobby as a whole, have placed a bit too much emphasis on the importance of (mostly 00) mainstream RTR manufacturers continuing to be viable in their current form. The whole hobby does not depend on this, although obviously there has to be something initially to help beginners get involved while they are still developing skills. But in future the way that beginners get into railway modelling may not look like the RTR train sets seen currently or in the past.

 

 

22 hours ago, Firecracker said:

Personally, I think the hobbies in a better position than it’s been for years, due to the support that’s available, both information and materials.  From this forum to premade baseboard kits, YouTube tutorials, materials available to order

 

 

Agreed. Thanks to the wonders of the internet I can't see railway modelling dying out, even if the OO starter set market shrinks. There are plenty of "non mainstream" hobbies that are doing quite well despite never appearing in an Argos catalogue or high street stores. We have websites, forums, videos etc sharing information, 3D print designers and small scale manufacturers who can advertise and sell all over the world. I can think of a few hobbies that have very healthy communities now thanks to social media and a few one person operations dotted around the world sourcing and supplying the items that the community needs from which the hobby grows. We can discover an interest, get advice online and order things we need, even if it's from one person on the other side of the world, all in one evening without leaving our computer.

 

Railway modelling doesn't need crowds of spotters on the end of each platform and everyone getting a train set for christmas to survive, as long as those who have an interest can connect with the community that's out there and be pointed towards the resources they need to participate.

[009 micro modeller]

51 minutes ago, Binky said:

We can discover an interest, get advice online and order things we need, even if it's from one person on the other side of the world, all in one evening without leaving our computer.

 

Exactly, and to modify the comments earlier about beginners being put off by having to source items from multiple obscure suppliers, I think it can be useful if one supplier sells many of the things needed; having them actually made by the same manufacturer is less relevant and only becomes more of an issue if components are incompatible or have to be used in a different way from how they were designed (for example, Smallbrook sell the chassis for their loco kits but some of the kits require the original cylinders to be cut off the chassis, which is fairly straightforward but possibly off-putting for a newbie). But I think this still underestimates people’s ability to research and find products online, even from multiple suppliers. In 009, Dundas Models are very good - they sell RTR stuff and Peco track alongside their own kits, as well as kits from other smaller manufacturers. Perhaps equally importantly, they have a clear website with the ability to buy online easily and often appear at mainstream model railway as well as specialist NG shows.

 

51 minutes ago, Binky said:

Thanks to the wonders of the internet I can't see railway modelling dying out, even if the OO starter set market shrinks.

 

Without intending to criticise anyone, I wonder whether the (perhaps excessive) focus on the 00 train set market by some people is because that is how they got into the hobby, and they can’t imagine other people getting into it via a different route. Apparently there is still a market of some sort for basic 00 sets, although if a large percentage of these are being sold to people who never subsequently ‘get into’ railway modelling further then that is similar to the situation that has existed in previous generations. If it turns out that the 00 train set is still the main way that beginners get into the hobby, then I would suggest that that has as much to do with what is offered by mainstream manufacturers and the second hand market as it does with the actual preferences of said beginners.

Edited August 21, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[DK123GWR]

10 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I wonder whether the (perhaps excessive) focus on the 00 train set market by some people is because that is how they got into the hobby, and they can’t imagine other people getting into it via a different route.

I can imagine people getting into it via a different route. Thinking about people I know at school, there are probably quite a few who would be more interested in soming in and building/painting models straight away (hence my support for your idea of a range of entry-level kits). Another group of people who could be lured in are the computer builders. There are all sorts of amazing things that they could do with DCC but I would imagine that even on DC they could exercise their brains quite well - creating proper block signalling systems or even something like this (demonstrated here).

However, there will still be some who get into it via the traditional route: an interest in either Thomas or the real prototype which grows into more. For this, we do need some sort of market for RTR standard gauge trains. These are the kind that most children will be familiar with as they include the trains that go past their house every day, and the famous locomotives of the past (Flying Scotsman, Mallard, and others*). Whether this is in 00 or N gauge is another matter. My instinct is that 00 would be most successful as it is what parents/grandparents are most likely to be familar with and it may be less frustrating for the youngest modellers, although if somebody could successfully launch a cheap, mass produced N gauge starter set to rival Hornby's this would of course give people the option of a bigger (in scale terms) layout.

 

*I can never quite believe that nobody produced an RTR City of Truro before Bachmann. I have also wondered whether it is worth an RTR manufacturer producing basic models which most people in an area would be familiar with (near Swindon this could have been Hagley Hall in the past, and subsequently Hinton Manor and Ditcheat Manor) and selling them to local model shops. You could then point out to the customers (including children) that this is the same locomotive that they see (in the case of Swindon) every time the go to the Outlet Village. Whether this would work as well in locations where you have to actively travel to a museum or heritage railway to see a locomotive (as opposed to walking past them while shopping in the factory that built them) is probably a key weakness of the plan.

[009 micro modeller]

5 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

However, there will still be some who get into it via the traditional route: an interest in either Thomas or the real prototype which grows into more.

 

I agree, and I didn’t say people won’t continue to take this route into railway modelling (or especially, just in case I’ve not phrased it very well, that they shouldn’t). I was just suggesting that it is not necessarily the only way, even for people whose interest develops from an interest in real railways. My interest in narrow gauge modelling probably developed from visiting NG heritage railways and miniature railways, as well as a visit to a specific NG location inspiring my first 009 layout. That said, the potential to get a larger, less fiddly scale in a smaller space may be an advantage of NG for some beginners, although I appreciate that standard gauge is likely to remain a majority interest.

[Phil Parker]

On 20/08/2020 at 10:08, Dunsignalling said:

However, on current form, the newcomers we do attract to the hobby seem, in the main, to be in early middle age. Their aspirations, demands and resources are very different to those anybody of primary school age would have, but at least they definitely exist.  The $64,000 dollar question is, of course, how long that will continue to be so.  

 

 

Since people have been crying doom because those in the hobby are old and dropping off the twig, and no youngsters are coming in, for well over half a century, I think there is a good chance RMweb2050 will still be having those discussions.

[phil-b259]

On 19/08/2020 at 17:57, MAURICE040947 said:

  15 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

if there is such a gap in the, how come someone isn't filling it?

 

Someone is. As I have said before, Marklin is the name and the range is called My World. It is aimed at the child market and is integrated with Lego systems for maximum play value. It is not aimed at  us older cynics. It is what I would call affordable and both my 6y.o. grandsons love it. I hope it generates a lifelong interest in the hobby.

 

And will your grandsons still want to play with it when he is 10 or 11? particularly once teenage peer pressure sets in)

 

The whole premise of this thread is the need of something to bridge the gap between a pure 'Toy' system and the finely detailed scale models - preferably being compatible with the latter allowing a gradual evolution as the child ages. As others have related for SOCIAL and CULTURAL reasons the market for such a range is tiny with little room for growth until attitudes in wider society change.

 

Markin's "My World" may be a popular and extensive system - BUT it is incompatible with the main HO Markin range. Its competition is with the likes of Tomy at the younger end of the age bracket and Lego (or its clones) at the upper end of the age range. It remains in my view very much a 'Toy' aimed at primary school children who generally are still quite happy to play with toy trains, toy cars, toy, boats etc. Fun? yes, a budget model railway system? No!

 

Its true value therefore comes from planting a seed (as does visits to Heritage Railways and frequentist trips by regular train - e.g. days out to London) that will hopefully germinate at some stage in adult life. For some that seed may take root straight away - but what is far more likely due to the stigma surrounding the hobby is that it will germinate later on.  That could be when the person is in higher education and has a go at a small shelf type layout, in their 20s after having started their career but before having a family, after having children and playing with toy trains with them or in their late 40s when the kids have grown up and you have reached the peak of your career.