WR ‘15XX’ 0-6-0PT - 00 Gauge

[PMP99]

1 hour ago, 97xx said:

 

Sorry about that, and agree you certainly don't want to sign up.

 

This might work, although you'll have to download it to view it, which I know won't feel ideal either!

 

https://app.box.com/s/gru6hjongqomrrprhr3bs8w7oo7bn7s6

Thanks, managed to download it onto my laptop, couldn't open it on my tablet.

 

[GWR-fan]

After watching the video it does seem a lot of longitudinal play in the centre axle bearings.  Is this the compensated axle?  Also the leading right hand wheel does look out of alignment.

[Silver Sidelines]

I was quite excited about Rapido's15xx.  Looking at my old ABC book seems I got to see six of the class, I am guessing all at work fetching and taking empty stock in and out of Paddington.

 

 

I have just received a couple of models and I have to say I am not impressed.

 

 

On first inspection my first thought was a badly constructed Airfix kit.

 

 

 

 

There is a lot of surplus glue on my models - one of which is on its way back to the retailer.   Not shown on the pictures but one of the buffers was also glued solid.

 

Sadly the running quality mirrored the build quality.  I would say that the wheel sets were not quartered properly.  I have spent a lot of time today moving wheels on individual axles on the model that I shall probably keep.  It is now much improved and runs nearly very well but it still has a bit of a shuffle when running in reverse. 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Silver Sidelines

[KeithAnthony]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Perhaps others could confirm

Colletts also  https://www.collettsmodelshop.co.uk

[Kaput]

I get the impression QC over multiple manufacturers has noticably declined since Covid. Can't help wonder if part of it is down to the manufacturer's no longer being able to physically visit the factories.

 

Was at a local show at the weekend and only one of the traders had any 15XX's for sale and only had one of 1501 (the only one I'm interested in). Sadly just opening the box was enough to see one of the buffers was completely missing so that got put back on the shelf. Does look like the packaging could be responsible for some of the damage people are seeing, seems to be some bits of polystrene or foam pushing against the buffer beam.

 

 

[GWR-fan]

The numerous issues reported is why I will never purchase a Heljan steam locomotive again as it seems that Rapido may be following Heljan down that rabbit hole.   I purchased a GWR livery and an early crest "1500".  The images above do not give me any confidence as to what I may receive.  I have yet to see any reports,  positive or negative,  on the GWR version.  Surely a defective locomotive should have been a rare occurrence and yet there does seem to be far too many negative experiences being expressed.

[tlm]

Kaput may be right on the QC issue, and I suspect the final EPs ran superbly.

 

I've had wobbly running with several recent steam models, and not just from the volume producers.  Recent examples include an Accurascale Manor and a KR Model GT3 (ok the GT3 isn't steam but it does have a 4-6-0 chassis with connecting rods), and while both were simply stunning in every other respect, the waddling along just ruined it completely for me personally. A second Manor ran perfectly, so it seems there's an element of the luck of the draw presently as to whether or not you get a good one from any manufacturer.

 

I've had nothing but excellent service from Rapido in the past with my American models, and the way they dealt with the dynamometer car issues shows they listen and take notice. I'll wager they are less than amused to note the sheer number of unacceptable issues with the production 15xx. Personally, I'm happy to wait and see how they propose to deal with them, rather than returning mine now and adding to what I suspect is an increasingly worrying  volume of returns both directly and via retailers.

[NHY 581]

10 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Oh thanks for the confirmation of Derails.

Perhaps others could confirm Traders that do this service pre dispatch by practice, or if asked.

 

Morning Phil,

 

Lord and Butler in Cardiff do this prior to sending a loco out. You don't have to ask for it to be done. 

 

Rob

 

[97xx]

11 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

After watching the video it does seem a lot of longitudinal play in the centre axle bearings.  Is this the compensated axle?  Also the leading right hand wheel does look out of alignment.

Yes centre is sprung - not 'compensated' as this technically refers to multiple axles that are connected in some form to improve track contact over irregular contours.

 

Not on the video but I did look more closely at that middle axle and the wheels are out of true.

 

Driven wheelset is tolerably OK, front wheelset is very poor. Unfortunately, short WB and overhang means the eccentric wheels kick the loco ends from side to side.

 

Having said all of this, my scratch built 36xx of 1970s (a large overhang 2-4-2T!) has a good deal better running quality - made in my Dad's garage with hand tools and brass strip chassis.

 

And if anything will be prone to 'wobble' or hunting that will be the one.

Edited September 18, 2023 by 97xx

[TheSignalEngineer]

17 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

 

Thing is though,is poor quality that usual from China ? Yes we do get some disasters,that’s undeniable but tbh in the main we have some very well made models.  Please no wails about bringing production back to the UK.

After privatisation I worked for a major signalling contractor and supplier. We were trying to do more business in the Far East and had a man based out there who also looked into using potential suppliers over there. His conclusion on Chinese manufacturing from his own experience was that if you got as low as 10% rejects from a batch it must have been a good day in the factory. 

Around the same time I remember a report that a non-UK model railway supplier had rejected a whole order for around 10,000 of what was supposed to be a new flagship item of rolling stock, fortunately before it got to the shelves.

[TheSignalEngineer]

18 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Would be interested if anyone has/had a poor running or otherwise faulty example that they bought from Derails as they are one of few who do test run loco before despatch and have become my default source for locos subject to availability - the preserved 1501 unfortunately being marked as sold out when I looked.

Mine came from Derails. All fiddly bits appear to be present and correctly attached. It runs smoothly on a short DC test. There is a very slight waddle when propelling but less than other short tank locos I have. I was told in the past that the prototype was a bit rough riding. 

Dan has become my main loco supplier in recent times. I have not had any problems with any that he has supplied, in fact he called me regarding an order for a special offer some time ago to say it was the last he had in stock and when  put it on test it made a horrible noise. He had been on to Hornby and managed to get a new replacement from them and he would honour the special offer price.

Taking into account postage costs his standard UK free delivery offers normally make him cheaper that the big tin shed down the river.

[Ian Hargrave]

6 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Mine came from Derails. All fiddly bits appear to be present and correctly attached. It runs smoothly on a short DC test. There is a very slight waddle when propelling but less than other short tank locos I have. I was told in the past that the prototype was a bit rough riding. 

Dan has become my main loco supplier in recent times. I have not had any problems with any that he has supplied, in fact he called me regarding an order for a special offer some time ago to say it was the last he had in stock and when  put it on test it made a horrible noise. He had been on to Hornby and managed to get a new replacement from them and he would honour the special offer price.

Taking into account postage costs his standard UK free delivery offers normally make him cheaper that the big tin shed down the river.

Good to  hear there’s another without problems. Though mine didn’t come via Dan ( out of stock) I can quote similar  instances of going that extra mile…notably recently with a Dapol Prairie with pick up difficulties ,a design problem which we both decided was best kicked into the long grass after he had tested exhaustively and attempted to solve.

[jjb1970]

Chinese manufacturers are like many things in life, there are bargain suppliers who work to standards above what their price might suggest and overpriced options charging more than it justified by their deliverables but at a certain point you get what you pay for. 

 

QA/QC checks cost money, if a client wants a more rigorous quality process the factories will do it but it'll be reflected in the price. What is the agreed quality criteria? My experience with Chinese manufacturing (going back to the early 00's has been they're pretty punctilious about contracts, certainly I never found them any worse than their peers in Europe and the Americas.

[Gilbert]

Mine was from Dan - DCC with sound - no problems so far.

ChrisH

[Eddie the dog]

I’ve had two of these, and apart from the odd fixable part being loose in the box both are cosmetically fine.

One is being returned due to very poor running performance.

The other is ok when going forwards, but not when in reverse !

It’s not a deal breaker, just has me scratching my head 🤷‍♂️

[stewartingram]

I'd better add that my 1504 was fine. On the rolling road there was a trace of wobble, which I put down to the wheels moving about on the rollers. On the only yard or so of test track (so far) no trace at all. One front step was knocked off by me, soon glued that back on. Superb model (and that is from someone who is anti GW!).

I just had to get the 94xx and USA tank out to compare, all lovely chunky tanks.

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Chinese manufacturers are like many things in life, there are bargain suppliers who work to standards above what their price might suggest and overpriced options charging more than it justified by their deliverables but at a certain point you get what you pay for. 

 

QA/QC checks cost money, if a client wants a more rigorous quality process the factories will do it but it'll be reflected in the price. What is the agreed quality criteria? My experience with Chinese manufacturing (going back to the early 00's has been they're pretty punctilious about contracts, certainly I never found them any worse than their peers in Europe and the Americas.

Except we know Rapido don't use 'bargain suppliers' but have their 'own' factories in China (although from what is hinted at in their vidoes and posts on here, likely in close and exclusive partnership with local owners). Heck they even stated a few years back that they have ability to expand and are looking to partner with other manufacturers to make their models, which of course we saw with Revolution and Realtrack[1]. Therefore Rapido have ultimate QC control on these models, they are not at the whim of subcontractors.

 

[1] Do Rapido only allow contracts with other manufacturers beginning with R??? :-p

[The Stationmaster]

As ever the best answer is your local retailer if you still happen to have one (and I know that many haven't).  Thus when I buy a loco from Paul at Alton it isn't just tested but I can actually watch it being tested on a small roundy.   And the shop is only an hour's drive away (subject to the motoring idiot quotient on the day which can extend that time somewhat).

[Garry D100]

11 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

....... and yet there does seem to be far too many negative experiences being expressed.

 

Or is that because people are more likely to voice complaint rather than praise as with a lot of things.

 

If someone produces 1000 models and you see 90 bad reviews and 5 good reviews does that make it a bad model/batch? The remainder might be perfectly good.

 

This is where its easy for people to jump to conclusions and not always the correct one.

 

This is a general comment not aimed at you GWR-fan personally :-)

[Steamport Southport]

37 minutes ago, Garry D100 said:

 

Or is that because people are more likely to voice complaint rather than praise as with a lot of things.

 

If someone produces 1000 models and you see 90 bad reviews and 5 good reviews does that make it a bad model/batch? The remainder might be perfectly good.

 

This is where its easy for people to jump to conclusions and not always the correct one.

 

This is a general comment not aimed at you GWR-fan personally :-)

 

Not aimed at Rapido. I'm just using your statistics.

 

1000 models and 90 bad reviews is a near 10% QC failure rate.

 

How are Rapido and other manufacturers going to improve if people don't point out the problems? I'm pretty sure they want to know.

 

If manufacturers are getting a 10% failure, then that suggests a serious issue somewhere in the process. People pointing out the problems may help them solve them.

 

As an aside if you bought a new TV for £150 and it was covered in scratches or glue would you send it back? Of course you would.

 

Then why do you tolerate it when it comes to model trains....

 

 

Jason

[Garry D100]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Not aimed at Rapido. I'm just using your statistics.

 

1000 models and 90 bad reviews is a near 10% QC failure rate.

 

How are Rapido and other manufacturers going to improve if people don't point out the problems? I'm pretty sure they want to know.

 

If manufacturers are getting a 10% failure, then that suggests a serious issue somewhere in the process. People pointing out the problems may help them solve them.

 

As an aside if you bought a new TV for £150 and it was covered in scratches or glue would you send it back? Of course you would.

 

Then why do you tolerate it when it comes to model trains....

 

 

Jason

 

I dont disagree at all in what you have said.

I was simply pointing out that not all is always as it seems.

 

Edit.

Spelling error

Edited September 18, 2023 by Garry D100

[Rockalaucher101]

Managed to find 1501 in stock at Antics (didn't know they were still around) and have now got it on order. Not at all dissuaded by the prospect of potentially getting a dud, I just wanted another loco from the SVR fleet. This will be my fifth alongside 5764, 7714, 7802 and 7012

[The Stationmaster]

14 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Not aimed at Rapido. I'm just using your statistics.

 

1000 models and 90 bad reviews is a near 10% QC failure rate.

 

How are Rapido and other manufacturers going to improve if people don't point out the problems? I'm pretty sure they want to know.

 

If manufacturers are getting a 10% failure, then that suggests a serious issue somewhere in the process. People pointing out the problems may help them solve them.

 

As an aside if you bought a new TV for £150 and it was covered in scratches or glue would you send it back? Of course you would.

 

Then why do you tolerate it when it comes to model trains....

 

 

Jason

Or does it suggest that 'manufacturers' are getting no more than what they are paying for?    It's surely up to the factory's custmer s to specify exactly what oit wants and meet teh factory's price for that.  If it wants QC checks they have to be paid for, if it wants a 'no reh jects' product that has to be paid for.

 

I'm not suggesting for one moment that Rapido are doing things on the cheap but you get what you pay for from a factory and if you don't you demand, and due, recompense - before you go elsewhere.  Part of the problem is that the UK end market is very good at demanding a lot in exchange for what it regards as a particular price level.  Anything exceeding that level is called 'over-priced' or expensive and anything falling below that price level is snapped up as a 'bargain'.  But the world doesn't work like nowadays - specification, including 'quality'  is all.

[GWR-fan]

2 hours ago, Garry D100 said:

 

Or is that because people are more likely to voice complaint rather than praise as with a lot of things.

 

.............................................................

 

As I stated in a previous posting,  "the squeeky axle gets the most grease".  If some one has an issue then why should they hide it from the rest of us.  We purchase what should be a mint model and only rarely should a lemon surface.  Sure you can praise the receipt of a mint model but then that is what we are paying for,  a mint model,  free from defects,  not one that runs poorly or is poorly assembled with excess glue staining,  paint chips and pieces misssing or adrift. 

 

If I lived in the UK I would not be so concerned as the returns process is far simpler and quicker.  For me to return a defective model I have to pay the return postage which Hattons would reimburse,  but from previous experience with the only model that I have ever returned,  Rails do not.   The return shipping would take at least two weeks to reach the store,  added to that is the store's inspection and determination of the state of the model and then either a refund or await a replacement locomotive to be sent to me.  All adds up to around six weeks of needless frustration for something which should never have occurred.

 

With the only locomotive that I have ever returned,  the store (Rails) did not reimburse me the return postage cost and even though the replacement loco was supposedly tested prior dispatch it was barely better than the model that I returned.

 

I had always been very impressed with the reputation and quality of Rapido products but only recently received a 16" Hunslet model.  I recall that release also received a little flak for poor running.  There was also the 16XX which from memory I believe that the wheelsets had to be replaced due issues with running quality.  Like Heljan,  I think that Rapido models will no longer be on my shopping list as I am not confident of the quality of the product that I will receive.   Possibly with fingers and toes crossed the two 15XX purchased will be blemish free and run like Swiss watches.  but then I could be in for a world of pain.  I pay the same amount for a mint trouble free model as I do for a basket case and would prefer to receive the former.

 

Edit:  one assumes that if a faulty model is returned that a replacement model will be available.  If a popular model then perhaps not as it could be sold out.  What then,  a refund and no reccompense for the troubles endured?

Edited September 18, 2023 by GWR-fan
information added

[97xx]

All this discussion has catalysed me to get mine back out of the box, and inspect/measure.

 

1. B2B vary between 14.1 and 14.5mm on a wheelset. The driven axle is good at 14.5±0.05, middle 14.3±0.2, front 14.4±0.1, but see 2.

2. Some wheelsets have wheels not perpendicular to the axle, albethem parallel in places (so B2B measures OK). This makes eccentric running MUCH worse.

3. One of the rear wheels clearly has a poor pickup as it is ineffective at certain points

4. One axle has defective quartering, and with the non-perpendicular wheels (meaning crankpins are't axial to the axle) causing the coupling rods to snap in and out along the crankpin on one side at the centre wheel. This is contributing to the cogging effect.

 

Four of the six brake shoes were not located on the pins on the chassis, although if there was any silver cloud, it meant they weren't touching the tyres...

 

I note also the flywheel has absolutely zero effect - shutting off the power results in a skid to a halt.

Edited September 18, 2023 by 97xx