Hornby 2021 - P2 new tooling

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, ColinB said:

Thank you for the advice. I must admit I was annoyed, I try to help and get abuse. As to the initial subject, I tried a few things before I came to my final solution. I tried bending out the pressure tabs, that didn't work. It was only the Peco double slip where it had the issue. I did wonder if the pony truck dips down and pressure tabs get caught on the body as it comes back up but as I said for me this was the easiest solution. On my Railroad P2, I added a piece of phosphor bronze, I think on this newer one  it is a big more difficult to find something to glue it to, either way this was far simpler. Funny I have a Coronation Duchess (Hornby Collectors Club) and on that one I had to use a longer shouldered screw for the bogie, which Hornby had used on its earlier models.

 

You clearly were annoyed, but I am at a loss to understand why.

 

Re-read Trevor Hammond's and my initial posts in response to yours - abuse? - no way!

 

Trevor merely stated the facts; I commenced with "With respect"; and made a polite summary of the reasons for using the correct terminology.

 

We all need correction occasionally, and if it is made politely, it should be received in the same manner.

 

CJI.

[ColinB]

12 hours ago, ColinB said:

Thank you for the advice. I must admit I was annoyed, I try to help and get abuse. As to the initial subject, I tried a few things before I came to my final solution. I tried bending out the pressure tabs, that didn't work. It was only the Peco double slip where it had the issue. I did wonder if the pony truck dips down and pressure tabs get caught on the body as it comes back up but as I said for me this was the easiest solution. On my Railroad P2, I added a piece of phosphor bronze, I think on this newer one  it is a big more difficult to find something to glue it to, either way this was far simpler. Funny I have a Coronation Duchess (Hornby Collectors Club) and on that one I had to use a longer shouldered screw for the bogie, which Hornby had used on its earlier models.

Perhaps if you had said something like this you won't annoy the next person so much, which probably what would have said. "Great information but just so know for next time the P2 has a pony truck as it has only 2 wheels, not a bogie". Now that is how I would have put it without going into you can't do steam without knowing all the parts. Of course you can they are model locos, my garden is not big enough for a real one, and seeing as my interest is in digital electronics and DCC, I know enough to get my locos going properly.

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, ColinB said:

Perhaps if you had said something like this you won't annoy the next person so much, which probably what would have said. "Great information but just so know for next time the P2 has a pony truck as it has only 2 wheels, not a bogie". Now that is how I would have put it without going into you can't do steam without knowing all the parts. Of course you can they are model locos, my garden is not big enough for a real one, and seeing as my interest is in digital electronics and DCC, I know enough to get my locos going properly.

 

Sorry, since I can't read minds, I am unable to tailor my posts to suit individual preferences.

 

Normally, "With respect ...." is sufficient to convey the fact that one is trying to be polite.

 

Whatever, I clearly failed in your case!

 

CJI.

[ColinB]

On about the derailing issue, isn't there an irony, Sam who everyone complains about his carpet based track didn't have any derailments during his review, whereas us with our fancy track do.  So perhaps on this one Hornby owe him a great deal of gratitude.

Edited September 24, 2023 by ColinB

[cctransuk]

20 minutes ago, ColinB said:

On about the derailing issue, isn't there an irony, Sam who everyone complains about his carpet based track didn't have any derailments during his review, whereas us with our fancy track do.  So perhaps on this one Hornby owe a great deal of gratitude.

 

It's interesting, though, that we don't often feel the need to post in a "My loco is full of fluff" thread. 😀

 

CJI.

[ColinB]

20 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It's interesting, though, that we don't often feel the need to post in a "My loco is full of fluff" thread. 😀

 

CJI.

To be honest fluff is not as big an issue as bits of grit that get lodged in teeth or the motor magnet picking up stray bits of metal like track pins or screws when you are fixing them. He actually says his locos are never full of fluff and seeing as he services them regularly he would know. It is short pile carpet and not shagpile. 

[E100]

...moving onto happier things.

 

The second batch of Thane of Fife has now arrived https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-p2-class-2-8-2-2005-thane-fife-era-3-r30130

[E100]

My 2005 appears to be a very fine example. the smokebox join is extremely minor as others have said in real life and I'm very glad I went for it with 2005.

[ColinB]

With this second batch, has anyone noticed if there are still derailing issues?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

46 minutes ago, ColinB said:

With this second batch, has anyone noticed if there are still derailing issues?

Don't know if my first P2 purchase received this morning is 'first' or 'second' batch, but it's pretty clear that it has the potential to be track sensitive. The thump as the coupled chassis comes onto the curved road of a Peco large radius point at a modest speed is evidence enough. It's staying on the rails on the 30" radius of the test circuit, and the facing point ladders of nominally 48" and 36" RTL and kit built points.

 

When it is mine to tinker with I fancy adding a little side control on the leading pony truck, as well as assessing whether the flanged rear truck wheelset permits 36" minimum radius operation.

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Don't know if my first P2 purchase received this morning is 'first' or 'second' batch, but it's pretty clear that it has the potential to be track sensitive. The thump as the coupled chassis comes onto the curved road of a Peco large radius point at a modest speed is evidence enough. It's staying on the rails on the 30" radius of the test circuit, and the facing point ladders of nominally 48" and 36" RTL and kit built points.

 

When it is mine to tinker with I fancy adding a little side control on the leading pony truck, as well as assessing whether the flanged rear truck wheelset permits 36" minimum radius operation.

I found that, in spite of Hornby providing an arch above the wheels, the flanges made contact with the bottom of the chassis and caused short circuits. Drat!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I found that, in spite of Hornby providing an arch above the wheels, the flanges made contact with the bottom of the chassis and caused short circuits

Have rotary tool with side cutters, will slash and hack away as required. All of Hornby's A3, A4, W1and Britannia have had like treatment as required for sufficient sideplay, short circuit prevention, or even to simply admit the flanged wheelset on early Brit releases, have Hornby fixed that I wonder? (And incidentally have had to cut wheelarches into metal footplates above pony truck wheelsets on Bachmann K3 and O4 locos for the same shorting reason.)

[Tony Wright]

On 01/09/2023 at 23:14, No Decorum said:

I’ve been watching the World of Railways review of the P2s on YouTube with Tony Wright and Howard Smith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRwJXXW2WBY

 

They had Prince of Wales and Lord President on Tony Wright’s superb Little Bytham.

PoW repeatedly derailed. The problem was traced to the springs on the leading pony truck. I had noticed the same thing on my Earl Marischal – the spring (a flat piece of metal shaped like an E without the centre stroke) was flat. My solution was the same as theirs, bend to two protuding pieces so that they actually worked as springs.

 

I admit that I have a thing about flangeless wheels, so the first thing I did was remove the flangeless ones. To my short-lived delight, I noticed that Hornby had cast curved recesses into the chassis to accommodate the wheel flanges. Hornby listens!

In went the flanged wheelset provided but the model derailed and shorted. After I had applied the fix above, the shorting continued and got worse. Out came the flanged wheelset and the cause was obvious. The flanges had scored the blackening on the chassis. Back in went the flangeless rollers and the problem was solved. I have to admit that it is difficult to see that they are flangeless but all the same, I wish Hornby had checked the EP to ensure that the recesses were deep enough to clear the flanged wheels.

Good evening,

 

Thank you for your kind comment about Little Bytham. 

 

I've taken LORD PRESIDENT and added detail, after which Geoff Haynes weathered her slightly. My article will appearing soon in BRM.

 

 

No problems were encountered with her running, even at speed. 

 

I added the flanged rear pony wheels, but encountered the problems reported elsewhere, so I discarded them, re-replacing the flangeless ones. From most viewing angles.........

 

 

They can't be seen.

 

 

Even low views.

 

I think this is an outstanding model.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Black Hat]

Is the join in the boiler supposed to be as pronounced as that?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

14 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Is the join in the boiler supposed to be as pronounced as that?

I would say definitely not, the example of the same model that I have just purchased has no visible joints in the boiler, at this or any other location. 

 

Past experience of Hornby construction on the circa 2005 introduction A3, was that it was very easy to 'spring open' a joint in the boiler in much the same position while wedging in lead ballast. Happily it was also very easy to close up the joint, and make it invisibly permanent with a dab of plastic cement applied from the inside.

[Captain_Mumbles]

My copy just arrived. On this one, the left side looks fine, and the other has that same large step. Clearly so they can stick different front ends on em. It can either be that the thickness of the plastic is more on the aft half of the boiler, or the parts don't have the same shape and needs to be massaged and re glued.

Either problem is easy to fix if you are game enough to try splitting it.

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

My copy just arrived. On this one, the left side looks fine, and the other has that same large step. Clearly so they can stick different front ends on em. It can either be that the thickness of the plastic is more on the aft half of the boiler, or the parts don't have the same shape and needs to be massaged and re glued.

Either problem is easy to fix if you are game enough to try splitting it.

 

Good morning,

 

The joint is more-pronounced on the RH side of the model I've reviewed, made more-noticeable by my photographic lighting techniques (pulses of powerful fill-in flash). 

 

I'll investigate if it can be rectified.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Captain_Mumbles]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning,

 

The joint is more-pronounced on the RH side of the model I've reviewed, made more-noticeable by my photographic lighting techniques (pulses of powerful fill-in flash). 

 

I'll investigate if it can be rectified.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have performed this on the old Hornby A3 with the join line down the boiler.  It will depend on how well they glued it!

 

[maico]

I wonder if some one can take a measurement for me- the middle of the P2 front driving axle to the rear.

 

The longest 4 axle loco I have is this Trix Ho 1931 EST class 13 at 72mm

 

The P2 and French Class 13 where the most powerful passenger express steam locos operating in each country.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by maico

[maico]

How does the P2 compare to the 9F which is circa 87.5mm between front and rear axles?

 

(Photo Porcy Mane)

Edited October 10, 2023 by maico

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The P2 should be scale for 3x 6'6", thus 19'6" = 78mm. Sadly I didn't measure mine before it was snatched away for its intended purpose as a Christmas 'surprise'...

 

(Have Hornby done better than Bachmann with their A2, which should be scale 2x 6'6", thus 13' = 52mm, but actually 54mm. No one appears to have noticed.)

 

Likewise the 9F should be scale for 4x 5'5", thus 21'8" = 86.67 mm.

 

Bachmann subtly extended their model's coupled wheelbase to 88mm. No one appears to have noticed.

 

Not had hands on the new Hornby 9F...

[maico]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The P2 should be scale for 3x 6'6", thus 19'6" = 78mm. Sadly I didn't measure mine before it was snatched away for its intended purpose as a Christmas 'surprise'...

 

(Have Hornby done better than Bachmann with their A2, which should be scale 2x 6'6", thus 13' = 52mm, but actually 54mm. No one appears to have noticed.)

 

Likewise the 9F should be scale for 4x 5'5", thus 21'8" = 86.67 mm.

 

Bachmann subtly extended their model's coupled wheelbase to 88mm. No one appears to have noticed.

 

Not had hands on the new Hornby 9F...

 

The current Hornby is pretty much spot on

[Captain_Mumbles]

On 06/10/2023 at 02:51, maico said:

I wonder if some one can take a measurement for me- the middle of the P2 front driving axle to the rear.

 

The longest 4 axle loco I have is this Trix Ho 1931 EST class 13 at 72mm

 

The P2 and French Class 13 where the most powerful passenger express steam locos operating in each country.

 

I think you mean the rigid wheelbase? Front axle to rear axle looks to be about 79mm on my railroad P2. Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) my Thane of Fife was confiscated for being too pretty and is in a display case locked behind the glass and getting it out is a bit of a faff.

 

[rogerzilla]

If it's any consolation, the prototype had a reputation for spreading the track, broken axles, and other issues arising from the long coupled wheelbase.  Some say this was a rumour started by the Thompson camp to justify the rebuild.  The 9F, of course, has flangeless middle wheels so it's more of a 2-4-2-4 in terms of taking curves.

Edited October 24, 2023 by rogerzilla

[Coldgunner]

Did it have a reduced flange on any of the middle axles?