Hornby 2021 - P2 new tooling

[DonnyRailMan]

A New P2 in Railroad to come ,what's the possibility?.  Because not everyone can afford £ 200 / 250 + Hornby produced P2s in Railroad of Cock O' The North. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by DonnyRailMan

[E100]

16 hours ago, DonnyRailMan said:

A New P2 in Railroad to come ,what's the possibility?.  Because not everyone can afford £ 200 / 250 + Hornby produced P2s in Railroad of Cock O' The North. 

I’d doubt that very much. They’ll be more likely to continue with the current railroad version. It does the job very well for what it is and will suit the bottom line no doubt.

[Johan DC]

Maybe a Railroad PoW when the 1:1 is finished. Like they did with Tornado 

[60800]

16 hours ago, Johan DC said:

Maybe a Railroad PoW when the 1:1 is finished. Like they did with Tornado 

 

I'd say that's quite likely given they have the tooling for the A1SLT type tender in railroad format already and the original P2 only needs the lump removing from the R/H side of the boiler casing as far as tooling is concerned. Given that the lump is a depression in the mould it may even just be a case of a new insert for the tooling. 

 

Comparing my 2001 (main range) and 2007 (new tool) the older model holds up very well and will quite happily sit next to the new one. 

 

There is certainly more finesse with the detail on 2007 - the moulding / design of the deflectors is much neater for example.

 

The new model has a different profile on top of the casing behind the blastpipes and the deflectors have an overall more pinched-in look. 

 

Whilst the original is by no means bad in it's main range form, the new one is certainly superior in visuals. I am yet to test run 2007, but I hope that it won't beach itself running on to the turntable like 2001 does.

 

Cheers,

  60800

Edited August 29, 2023 by 60800

[Johan DC]

52 minutes ago, 60800 said:

 

 

Comparing my 2001 (main range) and 2007 (new tool) the older model holds up very well and will quite happily sit next to the new one. 

 

 

I'm waiting for the steamgenerator 2007, but my 2001 will not be replaced. It's lightly weathered and had a spare hook and screwlink from 2005 (nice from Hornby to give the option between screwlink fitted hook, or hook without).

Only have to change the fake coal, and the TTS decoder by a TXS.

[G-BOAF]

A thought (on prototype/history).

Was P2 2001 the first instance of use of the V-front cab in the UK?

This design was obviously later used on the A4, V2, and in a modified form on the Peppercorn Pacific's, as well as slightly less dramatic versions on the Duchesses, Bulleid Pacifics, and BR Standard 4mt and larger.

 

[60800]

I believe so, yes. Imagine how the W1 in it's original form would have looked with it. 

 

Cheers,

 60800

[Ollie K]

There's an interesting image here of the V-fronted cab mock-up. Here's it's captioned as a film prop, but I've also seen it described as a training aid / opinion canvasser for loco crews.

 

https://www.a1steam.com/educational-resources/prince-of-wales/history-of-the-gresley-class-p2s

[No Decorum]

To give chapter and verse on the V-shaped cab front, from the Green Books.

P2
It did not appear on the drawing dated December, 1933.
It did appear on the drawing dated March, 1934.
The first loco was completed in May, 1934.
A4
It appeared on the first drawing dated May, 1934.
The first loco was completed in September, 1935.
V2
It appeared on first drawing dated August, 1934.
The first loco was completed in June, 1936.

 

It was a busy time on the LNER!

 

[No Decorum]

I’ve been watching the World of Railways review of the P2s on YouTube with Tony Wright and Howard Smith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRwJXXW2WBY

 

They had Prince of Wales and Lord President on Tony Wright’s superb Little Bytham.

PoW repeatedly derailed. The problem was traced to the springs on the leading pony truck. I had noticed the same thing on my Earl Marischal – the spring (a flat piece of metal shaped like an E without the centre stroke) was flat. My solution was the same as theirs, bend to two protuding pieces so that they actually worked as springs.

 

I admit that I have a thing about flangeless wheels, so the first thing I did was remove the flangeless ones. To my short-lived delight, I noticed that Hornby had cast curved recesses into the chassis to accommodate the wheel flanges. Hornby listens!

In went the flanged wheelset provided but the model derailed and shorted. After I had applied the fix above, the shorting continued and got worse. Out came the flanged wheelset and the cause was obvious. The flanges had scored the blackening on the chassis. Back in went the flangeless rollers and the problem was solved. I have to admit that it is difficult to see that they are flangeless but all the same, I wish Hornby had checked the EP to ensure that the recesses were deep enough to clear the flanged wheels.

[E100]

Sent Hornby an email about the ETA on the next batch of 2005 as there wasn't anything online. "end of September"

[Trevor Hammond]

31 minutes ago, E100 said:

Sent Hornby an email about the ETA on the next batch of 2005 as there wasn't anything online. "end of September"

Hornby seem to be expecting a lot of stock "towards the end of September"

[melmerby]

On 01/09/2023 at 22:49, No Decorum said:

To give chapter and verse on the V-shaped cab front, from the Green Books.

P2
It did not appear on the drawing dated December, 1933.
It did appear on the drawing dated March, 1934.
The first loco was completed in May, 1934.
A4
It appeared on the first drawing dated May, 1934.
The first loco was completed in September, 1935.
V2
It appeared on first drawing dated August, 1934.
The first loco was completed in June, 1936.

 

It was a busy time on the LNER!

 

A GWR King & Castle got wedge front cabs 6 months before the A4s appeared as part of a half hearted "streamlining" exercise.

They later lost them after the rest of the protuberences had been removed piecemeal.

[ColinB]

Both of my P2s had issues with derailing. Eventually I tracked it down to the shouldered screw that held the front bogie on, not having enough travel, so when it hit my Peco double slip it derailed. To correct it I extended the shoulder by about 1 mm by using some valve gear spacers. I would have used a new shouldered screw but Hornby have used some weird thread for the screw (it is not m2 like all their other screws). 

Edited September 22, 2023 by ColinB

[Trevor Hammond]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

Both of my P2s had issues with derailing. Eventually I tracked it down to the shouldered screw that held the front bogie on, not having enough travel, so when it hit my Peco double slip it derailed. To correct it I extended the shoulder by about 1 mm by using some valve gear spacers. I would have used a new shouldered screw but Hornby have used some weird thread for the screw (it is not m2 like all their other screws). 

The P2  has a pony truck not a front bogie.

[ColinB]

4 hours ago, Trevor Hammond said:

The P2  has a pony truck not a front bogie.

Ok call it what you want, I was trying to help perhaps next time I won't bother. To me it is a front bogie, I always think of the piny truck as the one at the back which for this model is fixed.

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, ColinB said:

Ok call it what you want, I was trying to help perhaps next time I won't bother. To me it is a front bogie, I always think of the piny truck as the one at the back which for this model is fixed.

 

With respect, the basic difference between a bogie and a truck is widely understood by most persons interested in steam locos.

 

To misuse the terms merely introduces confusion; by your usage, a 2-6-2T would have a bogie at the front and a pony at the rear - despite, in some cases, the two being identical.

 

CJI.

Edited September 22, 2023 by cctransuk

[ColinB]

30 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

With respect, the basic difference between  bogie and a truck is widely understood by most persons interested in steam locos.

 

To misuse the terms merely introduces confusion; by your usage, a 2-6-2T would have a bogie at the front and a pony at the rear - despite, in some cases, the two being identical.

 

CJI.

Next time I will refer to it as that bit that sticks out the front with two wheels on. As I said to the previous person I don't care what it is called I was just identifying how to fix the derailing issue. I collect model railway locos and repair them so as long as I can identify the part I don't care, obviously you do, so your post is actually wasted but never mind you and the other guy had your say. I actually think a lot of people call it the bogie because there are many posts about the old P2 derailing on the front bogie. Fortunately if I answered this as I feel I would get banned, so I will just say thanks for the information.

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, ColinB said:

Next time I will refer to it as that bit that sticks out the front with two wheels on. As I said to the previous person I don't care what it is called I was just identifying how to fix the derailing issue. I collect model railway locos and repair them so as long as I can identify the part I don't care, obviously you do, so your post is actually wasted but never mind you and the other guy had your say. I actually think a lot of people call it the bogie because there are many posts about the old P2 derailing on the front bogie. Fortunately if I answered this as I feel I would get banned, so I will just say thanks for the information.

 

That kind of rudeness speaks volumes about ignorance - not merely of widely understood railway terms!

 

 

CJI.

[ColinB]

15 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

That kind of rudeness speaks volumes about ignorance - not merely of widely understood railway terms!

 

 

CJI.

Have it your way, I could say the same about you, why bother mentioning it. Was it so you looked good, it was it to indicate that you knew a lot more than me. it was a post on how to fix a fault , not the history of steam locos. I hold my hands up I am not an expert on steam trains, I am electronics engineer that collects trains, so I am not too bothered what you think. I suspect most people knew what I was talking about so why? If you do a search on EBay for pony trucks it always comes up with the rear component so for people like me that is really important, similarly a bogie will generally come up with the thing at the front whether it has two wheels or four. They are the practical considerations if you are trying to fix something. You obviously don't have a P2 as you would know it doesn't have a moveable pony track at the back to derail.

[Captain_Mumbles]

Im not a railway man myself, and I always remind myself that the pony would poke its head through the door before the rider in normal circumstances.

 

On the derailing though, for me, it was weight. I placed weight above the front wheels and that stopped my P2s from derailing. It looked like there wasn't enough heft up front so as it went over points the front wheels would just ignore everything. I used a piece of sheet lead which thankfully is really easy to cut.

 

[TomScrut]

10 hours ago, ColinB said:

I suspect most people knew what I was talking about so why?

 

Well I knew what you meant and will use your original post to help with my derailing issue.

[No Decorum]

It’s curious that we have three different solutions to the same problem. I imagine that increasing the pressure of the spring and adding weight would, by increasing pressure on the wheels, achieve the same result in different ways.

[Daddyman]

12 hours ago, ColinB said:

Have it your way, I could say the same about you, why bother mentioning it. Was it so you looked good, it was it to indicate that you knew a lot more than me. it was a post on how to fix a fault , not the history of steam locos. I hold my hands up I am not an expert on steam trains, I am electronics engineer that collects trains, so I am not too bothered what you think. I suspect most people knew what I was talking about so why? If you do a search on EBay for pony trucks it always comes up with the rear component so for people like me that is really important, similarly a bogie will generally come up with the thing at the front whether it has two wheels or four. They are the practical considerations if you are trying to fix something. You obviously don't have a P2 as you would know it doesn't have a moveable pony track at the back to derail.

It's a handy tip, thank you. I'll try it on my dad's. 

 

Re language, it's public, so we kind of need to use the words everyone else is using- though it does vary by context: so although, as you say, referring to a pony truck as a "bogie" clearly works in the situations you're working in, here among specialists (and, yes, pedants) it won't work. You have to speak the language of the people you're talking to. 

 

Incidentally, if you hover over a user name, you will see an option comes up to ignore them - heartily recommended for one of the posters on this page; RMWeb is so much more stress-free without him!  

[ColinB]

17 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

It's a handy tip, thank you. I'll try it on my dad's. 

 

Re language, it's public, so we kind of need to use the words everyone else is using- though it does vary by context: so although, as you say, referring to a pony truck as a "bogie" clearly works in the situations you're working in, here among specialists (and, yes, pedants) it won't work. You have to speak the language of the people you're talking to. 

 

Incidentally, if you hover over a user name, you will see an option comes up to ignore them - heartily recommended for one of the posters on this page; RMWeb is so much more stress-free without him!  

Thank you for the advice. I must admit I was annoyed, I try to help and get abuse. As to the initial subject, I tried a few things before I came to my final solution. I tried bending out the pressure tabs, that didn't work. It was only the Peco double slip where it had the issue. I did wonder if the pony truck dips down and pressure tabs get caught on the body as it comes back up but as I said for me this was the easiest solution. On my Railroad P2, I added a piece of phosphor bronze, I think on this newer one  it is a big more difficult to find something to glue it to, either way this was far simpler. Funny I have a Coronation Duchess (Hornby Collectors Club) and on that one I had to use a longer shouldered screw for the bogie, which Hornby had used on its earlier models.