Hornby 2021 - Mk 4 coaching stock with DVTs

[cravensdmufan]

Collected INTERCITY Mk4 DVT from my local model shop this afternoon.

 

Very pleased with it. 

[zoomer1979]

The shape of the front of the DVT looks much better than the original in my opinion. Hopefully my pre order from Collett Models comes through and he hasn't been "Hornbied".

[Train Fault]

On 18/08/2022 at 19:47, JackB95 said:

Excellent!

Can't help but notice the light clusters on the DVT appear to be the older 'IOO OOI' style with the separate markers. Hornby very clearly stated that the 91 and DVT would have the correct light clusters to match the era modelled on each version (TfW having the modern LED ones). I have a funny feeling they've f'd this one up.

Correct!

I was thinking something looked a miss! Is anyone with a copy of the LNER or TfW DVT able to advise if the outer markers are actually operational? Maybe (hopefully) the marker clusters operate correctly as per later modifications and the outer markers don’t.... also the area around the cluster should be black? I wonder if that’s an easy modification...

 

[JackB95]

1 hour ago, Train Fault said:

Correct!

I was thinking something looked a miss! Is anyone with a copy of the LNER or TfW DVT able to advise if the outer markers are actually operational? Maybe (hopefully) the marker clusters operate correctly as per later modifications and the outer markers don’t.... also the area around the cluster should be black? I wonder if that’s an easy modification...

 

A simple mod for you and me, and even easier if the artwork was sent to the factory to make sure it was black from the word go. Yet to see anyone's LNER/TfW DVTs up and running with lights, so I hope that the outer markers are there for decoration. Still...

[Legend]

I got an LNER first today but no sign of the Restaurant Car . Anyone else got theirs or is it just the way they are being shipped by Hornby to retailers ? 

[Wild Boar Fell]

39 minutes ago, JackB95 said:

 

A simple mod for you and me, and even easier if the artwork was sent to the factory to make sure it was black from the word go. Yet to see anyone's LNER/TfW DVTs up and running with lights, so I hope that the outer markers are there for decoration. Still...

 

Looking forward to my TfWR pair arriving, but agree there are a few things that aren't right, looks like the front lamp iron and UIC sockets are missing. The bogies should be black (they weren't repainted when the bodysides were). Headlight clusters as you say, also appears to be wrong. It would have been nice to also have some printed/painted detail on the underframe such as the yellow behind the BIS. The DVTs also very quickly gained Holyhead depot stickers. I've not seen any photos that show whether any representation of the push-pull equipment (for 67s) has been added on this or the coaches.

 

The livery of DVT and coaches is correct for approximately Feb 2020 to May 2021 between delivery to TfWR and entry into service.

[ThaneofFife]

can you imagine working in the quality control dept at Hornby and being called in for a chat on some of these errors?   its not like they are hard to sort at the sample stage so somebody somewhere is just not doing their jobs correctly.   it really annoys me even moreso with climbing prices.   

 

Artwork on forthcoming 87006 has had to be revisited according to last Engine Shed report so things do get picked up but heres hoping they dont slip the net later down the line.

[JackB95]

25 minutes ago, Legend said:

I got an LNER first today but no sign of the Restaurant Car . Anyone else got theirs or is it just the way they are being shipped by Hornby to retailers ? 

 

I've not seen any LNER buffets about yet, so guess they're still enroute.

 

10 minutes ago, Wild Boar Fell said:

Looking forward to my TfWR pair arriving, but agree there are a few things that aren't right, looks like the front lamp iron and UIC sockets are missing. The bogies should be black (they weren't repainted when the bodysides were). Headlight clusters as you say, also appears to be wrong. It would have been nice to also have some printed/painted detail on the underframe such as the yellow behind the BIS. The DVTs also very quickly gained Holyhead depot stickers. I've not seen any photos that show whether any representation of the push-pull equipment (for 67s) has been added on this or the coaches.

 

The livery of DVT and coaches is correct for approximately Feb 2020 to May 2021 between delivery to TfWR and entry into service.

 

Yeah, certainly the lamp iron is missing. Not sure where the UIC sockets are? The front end buffer beam sockets seem to be all in place. Holyhead stickers can thankfully be purchased from Railtec transfers. As for the bogies, whilst naturally I'd agree with the bogies being black, this photo here shows that they appear to be the same colour (albeit maybe very slightly darker) as the lower bodyside... 

 

 

 

I'm rather hoping someone will make the advertising liveries to go on the side of the DVTs. I'm quite fond of the RNLI one myself.

[Wild Boar Fell]

3 minutes ago, JackB95 said:

 

I've not seen any LNER buffets about yet, so guess they're still enroute.

 

 

Yeah, certainly the lamp iron is missing. Not sure where the UIC sockets are? The front end buffer beam sockets seem to be all in place. Holyhead stickers can thankfully be purchased from Railtec transfers. As for the bogies, whilst naturally I'd agree with the bogies being black, this photo here shows that they appear to be the same colour (albeit maybe very slightly darker) as the lower bodyside... 

 

 

 

I'm rather hoping someone will make the advertising liveries to go on the side of the DVTs. I'm quite fond of the RNLI one myself.

 

The UICs are just out board of the Main Res pipes in the linked image (you can see one just below the driver's side buffer). 

 

I'll post a link to a good photo of it later, but the bogies do appear grey in a lot of images, but are actually black/very dark grey as per LNER service.

[JackB95]

44 minutes ago, Wild Boar Fell said:

The UICs are just out board of the Main Res pipes in the linked image (you can see one just below the driver's side buffer). 

 

I'll post a link to a good photo of it later, but the bogies do appear grey in a lot of images, but are actually black/very dark grey as per LNER service.

 

Ahhh yes, just see it poking out the bottom. I'm sure a simple 3D printed part will sort that.

 

And yeah I'd agree with you there. I think I'll spray my bogies a darker grey to help spice it up a bit.

[43179]

1 hour ago, JackB95 said:

 

I've not seen any LNER buffets about yet, so guess they're still enroute.

 

 

Yeah, certainly the lamp iron is missing. Not sure where the UIC sockets are? The front end buffer beam sockets seem to be all in place. Holyhead stickers can thankfully be purchased from Railtec transfers. As for the bogies, whilst naturally I'd agree with the bogies being black, this photo here shows that they appear to be the same colour (albeit maybe very slightly darker) as the lower bodyside... 

 

 

 

I'm rather hoping someone will make the advertising liveries to go on the side of the DVTs. I'm quite fond of the RNLI one myself.

While we're focusing on this area its worth pointing out that Hornby have got the shape of the bufferbeam wrong - depicting is just as a rectangular block , with the ETH sockets stuck on the underside - whereas as the real thing is angled on the underside , with the sockets on special mounting brackets . When its painted grey Its very obvious on the TWF photo above.   The section immediately underneath the coupling hook is also the wrong shape. I do love counting rivets , yes , and there's 6 missing from the top of the front skirt while we're at it 😀  Its a handsome looking thing the Mk4 DVT,  but the model seems to have run out of steam/finesse/fidelity with the bogies and underframe . I'm a bit puzzled why there's a gap between the body and bogie on this mode - does it ride too high? - can it be lowered to close up that gap? It would look much better  The Mk3 DVT 'sits' perfectly  on its bogies , with no gap between the body and the suspension bag , its its a shame , and a bit odd , why this model couldn't be done the same. Anyone dare to get the files out? 

 

Jon 

[PeterStiles]

I was disappointed not to get the new Hornby magnetic couplings in with the mk4s, but I was pleasantly surprised with the "coupling bar" that is included - fitting them the coaches snuggled very close together, the gangway connectors virtually touching, and the kinematic mechanism working perfectly round the bends.

 

Without the coupling bar, having a DVT is a bit of a waste because a 91 can't 'push' using the tension-locks without Trouble, but then that could just be the 91...

[adamvb]

1 hour ago, PeterStiles said:

I was disappointed not to get the new Hornby magnetic couplings in with the mk4s, but I was pleasantly surprised with the "coupling bar" that is included - fitting them the coaches snuggled very close together, the gangway connectors virtually touching, and the kinematic mechanism working perfectly round the bends.

 

Without the coupling bar, having a DVT is a bit of a waste because a 91 can't 'push' using the tension-locks without Trouble, but then that could just be the 91...

 I found it worked well until you have a full rake of 8-9 MK4s and a DVT when pushing - when doing that on 4th radius curves I get gangway collisons on the rear 2/3 coaches and have had to pop a dab of blacktack on the coupling centre bar to add a mm of distance to stop them colliding.

Edited August 20, 2022 by adamvb
additional detail

[adamvb]

6 hours ago, 43179 said:

While we're focusing on this area its worth pointing out that Hornby have got the shape of the bufferbeam wrong - depicting is just as a rectangular block , with the ETH sockets stuck on the underside - whereas as the real thing is angled on the underside , with the sockets on special mounting brackets . When its painted grey Its very obvious on the TWF photo above.   The section immediately underneath the coupling hook is also the wrong shape. I do love counting rivets , yes , and there's 6 missing from the top of the front skirt while we're at it 😀  Its a handsome looking thing the Mk4 DVT,  but the model seems to have run out of steam/finesse/fidelity with the bogies and underframe . I'm a bit puzzled why there's a gap between the body and bogie on this mode - does it ride too high? - can it be lowered to close up that gap? It would look much better  The Mk3 DVT 'sits' perfectly  on its bogies , with no gap between the body and the suspension bag , its its a shame , and a bit odd , why this model couldn't be done the same. Anyone dare to get the files out? 

 

Jon 

 

Completely agree - looking at the old 90's swallow DVT it has much more underframe detail, the swallow on the front end, and weirdly on the new one the 3 holes to represent the horns on the lower bonnet - which are covered by a grill in real life (which is moulded on the old Hornby DVT), but not on the new one, and its not painted black in lieu of this. The panel at the top of the bonnet is really badly fitted (not flush as it should be and as per the old moulding), and they've used the wrong wiper arrangement (they should both be diagonal bottom left to top right on the pre-refurb DVT's - Hornby made a point of doing different toolings for the 91 to get this right but haven't on the DVT) . I genuinely don't understand how some elements of the model have regressed to below the detail of a 30 year old tooling.

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by adamvb

[JackB95]

I've seen a picture of a TfW DVT on Facebook with a decoder fitted, and I'm AMAZED to see that the light clusters, despite having the separate markers fitted, have the correct lighting PCB to produce the correct marker/tail lamps! So the outside separate markers are redundant. Interesting way of doing it...

[43179]

25 minutes ago, adamvb said:

 

 . I genuinely don't understand how some elements of the model have regressed to below the detail of a 30 year old tooling.

 

Nice comparison photos - just shows the nice rivet detail on the underframe on the old model - plus , dare I say it , I think the executive light grey and dark grey look look more accurate on the old model too. There’s potential then to upgrade the new model with earlier parts . We’re the wipers changed by GNER , or did any of the Intercity DVTs get the twin arm versions .
Some might say everything after the class 60 has been a regression 😕 

 

jon

[BR(S)]

36 minutes ago, adamvb said:

The panel at the top of the bonnet is really badly fitted (not flush as it should be and as per the old moulding)

 

They seem to have done this how it appears on the Mk3 DVT, which is incorrect for the Mk4 DVT.

[Charlie24]

There is some discussion on the Dean Park Station FB group about further issues, namely:

-The DVT and the Mk4s are yet another different shade of red to 91118 (so along with the darker red on the old VTEC R3501 set and the VTEC/LNER HSTs and Mk3s, are there now 3 different shades of VTEC/LNER red?)

-The white 'swoosh' on the bodyside is pixelated around the edges. I've yet to receive my DVT to confirm this

-There are glue marks around the glazing of some of the Mk4 coaches

-Front panels on the DVT have not been fitted properly

 

Whether these are batch-wide issues or just individually affected items remains unclear. Has anyone else got these issues?

[GordonC]

4 hours ago, adamvb said:

 

Completely agree - looking at the old 90's swallow DVT it has much more underframe detail, the swallow on the front end, and weirdly on the new one the 3 holes to represent the horns on the lower bonnet - which are covered by a grill in real life (which is moulded on the old Hornby DVT), but not on the new one, and its not painted black in lieu of this. The panel at the top of the bonnet is really badly fitted (not flush as it should be and as per the old moulding), and they've used the wrong wiper arrangement (they should both be diagonal bottom left to top right on the pre-refurb DVT's - Hornby made a point of doing different toolings for the 91 to get this right but haven't on the DVT) . I genuinely don't understand how some elements of the model have regressed to below the detail of a 30 year old tooling.

 

 

Looking at those comparison pictures - have they re-used the same bogie mouldings on the new model?

 

Those 3 holes on the front look awful

[43179]

27 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Looking at those comparison pictures - have they re-used the same bogie mouldings on the new model?

 

I found myself asking the same question - and came to the conclusion that the fact that I was questioning it , meant that if they had retooled them, then they needn’t have bothered.

Agreed , the area below the headlights does look a bit pants for a brand new model. Bombing round a layout with a full set of coaches I’m sure most people will be happy with it though, and it’s hard not to like anything in intercity livery with a pointy cab! 
Jon

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, 43179 said:

I found myself asking the same question - and came to the conclusion that the fact that I was questioning it , meant that if they had retooled them, then they needn’t have bothered.

Agreed , the area below the headlights does look a bit pants for a brand new model. Bombing round a layout with a full set of coaches I’m sure most people will be happy with it though, and it’s hard not to like anything in intercity livery with a pointy cab! 
Jon

 

You can only model whats there on the prototype, but I'm just surprised there isn't an obvious difference showing they had been retooled. Had the 'old' one been re-wheeled there or was that the wheelsets that came with it? I would have expected it to have much more shiny train-set pizza cutters and even the wheels look the same.

 

Under the headlights may not be visible at speed and it overall unquestionably looks better at the front end compared to the old one ... but is it really the level you'd expect for £75-£85. For me, I dont think so, so even if it looks pretty, it wouldn't make it into the shopping basket to turn a wheel on a layout in the first place.

 

I just dont understand how they can make areas look worse on a new model than it was on a 30 year old toy

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by GordonC

[Wild Boar Fell]

On 20/08/2022 at 10:19, JackB95 said:

 

I've not seen any LNER buffets about yet, so guess they're still enroute.

 

 

Yeah, certainly the lamp iron is missing. Not sure where the UIC sockets are? The front end buffer beam sockets seem to be all in place. Holyhead stickers can thankfully be purchased from Railtec transfers. As for the bogies, whilst naturally I'd agree with the bogies being black, this photo here shows that they appear to be the same colour (albeit maybe very slightly darker) as the lower bodyside... 

 

 

 

I'm rather hoping someone will make the advertising liveries to go on the side of the DVTs. I'm quite fond of the RNLI one myself.

 

Realised I hadn't posted this yet, from Flickr

 

For anyone modelling the TfWR rakes, remember that the formation changed between the training runs and them entering service (the TO moved).

[43179]

3 hours ago, GordonC said:

 ... but is it really the level you'd expect for £75-£85. For me, I dont think so, so even if it looks pretty, it wouldn't make it into the shopping basket to turn a wheel on a layout in the first place.

 

I just dont understand how they can make areas look worse on a new model than it was on a 30 year old toy

 

So the nearest I could find to a mk4 in my collection is an ÖBB Bcmz sleeper car - (they have kindof similar looking bogies) - these have separate dampers, really nice crisp tooling all round and (my favourite bit) a representation of the triple brake discs and calipers between the wheels, which the real mk4s also have. Worth noting these models are N gauge! But It , Just shows what’s possible and how Hornby could have really made these new models really special - fully detailed bogies would have been really cool.

 

Jon

[Darius43]

I suppose* that Hornby has factored in the level of detail that can/cannot be provided to the price at which they wish to offer the model and the profit margin to which they aspire.   I am happy not to have lots of unseen detail absent if it keeps the price down.  With everyone’s costs going up I suspect a sub £50 rrp coach may become a thing of the past.

 

At the end of the day I’m happy with my purchases and I do think they are better looking than the older models - not perfect to be sure, but then neither am I.  At the end of the day you can be happy or unhappy and in this case I chose the former.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

* I use the word “suppose” because Hornby chose not to involve me in their business decision making.  Hard to believe I know…

[jonnyuk]

1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

I suppose* that Hornby has factored in the level of detail that can/cannot be provided to the price at which they wish to offer the model and the profit margin to which they aspire.   I am happy not to have lots of unseen detail absent if it keeps the price down.  With everyone’s costs going up I suspect a sub £50 rrp coach may become a thing of the past.

 

At the end of the day I’m happy with my purchases and I do think they are better looking than the older models - not perfect to be sure, but then neither am I.  At the end of the day you can be happy or unhappy and in this case I chose the former.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

* I use the word “suppose” because Hornby chose not to involve me in their business decision making.  Hard to believe I know…

80% agree. The only thing you could say is Hornby are no longer the cheap(er) kid on the block, they are typically more expensive and so errors both QC and prototypical can be jumped on (to be fair that was the case before Hornby put the prices up), i wonder how much they would charge if Hornby started adding all the detail say to the underside of the bogies that you can't see etc

I do feel that this forum is now just a lets bash Hornby on everything and everything.

Without naming the manufacturer due to fear of been burnt on a stake they can seemingly get away with anything and everything because well, everyone loves them and won't have a word said against.