Hornby Announce L&MR 0-4-2 "Lion"?

[RyanN91]

Absolutely stunning locomotive! I'm so glad Hornby just went ahead with it as a special train pack. I prefer this Rather than the trains on film train packs although that is a nice touch for fans of trains in cinema ( looks as though this has been cancelled it possibly could be something Hornby might indeed well look at in the future perhaps they could continue with these theme alongside trains on television as well who knows?) 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, RyanN91 said:

Absolutely stunning locomotive! I'm so glad Hornby just went ahead with it as a special train pack. I prefer this Rather than the trains on film train packs although that is a nice touch for fans of trains in cinema ( looks as though this has been cancelled it possibly could be something Hornby might indeed well look at in the future perhaps they could continue with these theme alongside trains on television as well who knows?) 

Have you been away for a while? 😉

[Ruston]

On 07/10/2022 at 10:32, Tony Cane said:

Good history of lion and its restoration here

 

 

Very interesting. It doesn't say in the video where the present boiler came from but the still at 2 min. 11 sec. shows what looks like a typical Manning Wardle boiler with the raised firebox.

Where is the motor situated in the model? I wonder if the original boiler and appearance can be modelled?

I would like one of these but I wouldn't have it as Lion at any stage in its life. I'd have it as another Todd, Kitson & Laird loco to a similar design, a fictional engine in other words, and I'd hack that ridiculous bell mouth off the top of the chimney for a start.

[PaulRhB]

Well another duff loco, this time my Dad’s Hornby Tiger!
It’s like a buzz saw and can’t start smoothly. Just to prove it’s not the controller I ran the Terrier on the same one straight after at the end, this is the second example as the first was sent back for the same thing.
 

Anyone got one that resembles the review of Lion in BRM of “silky smooth”?

 

 

I’ve seen Lion running quieter and smoother on YouTube but these are terrible so far which is a shame as it’s a nice looking model. This is after an hour running in. 

 

This was the first one after running in for over an hour using a Kato and Bachmann set controller, both of which drive other locos perfectly. 
 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Kaput]

2nd one might work better if it was on the track properly....

[Bucoops]

16 minutes ago, Kaput said:

2nd one might work better if it was on the track properly....

 

I dunno, the Titfield lot managed OK with a 14xx?

 

Oh, sorry, sore point 😇

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Kaput said:

2nd one might work better if it was on the track properly....

It wouldn’t affect the screeching sound and leaping away though. It had run on rollers for over an hour before

[big jim]

Sounds like an old Lima 08! 

[Flying Pig]

Everyone's favourite Youtuber reviewed Tiger and had the same problem with jerky starting.

[PaulRhB]

36 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

Everyone's favourite Youtuber reviewed Tiger and had the same problem with jerky starting.

Seems a little odd when the review says Lion is silky smooth. This certainly isn’t. 

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Well another duff loco, this time my Dad’s Hornby Tiger!
It’s like a buzz saw and can’t start smoothly. Just to prove it’s not the controller I ran the Terrier on the same one straight after at the end, this is the second example as the first was sent back for the same thing.
 

Anyone got one that resembles the review of Lion in BRM of “silky smooth”?

 

 

I’ve seen Lion running quieter and smoother on YouTube but these are terrible so far which is a shame as it’s a nice looking model. This is after an hour running in. 

 

This was the first one after running in for over an hour using a Kato and Bachmann set controller, both of which drive other locos perfectly. 
 

 

I've got a DJM designed model which makes exactly the same noise. (I have three models of teh same loco - one is silky smooth, one runs poorly and one sounds like that).  I wonder which factory Hornby used for those one?

[Ruston]

16 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Well another duff loco, this time my Dad’s Hornby Tiger!
It’s like a buzz saw and can’t start smoothly. Just to prove it’s not the controller I ran the Terrier on the same one straight after at the end, this is the second example as the first was sent back for the same thing.
 

Anyone got one that resembles the review of Lion in BRM of “silky smooth”?

 

 

I’ve seen Lion running quieter and smoother on YouTube but these are terrible so far which is a shame as it’s a nice looking model. This is after an hour running in. 

 

This was the first one after running in for over an hour using a Kato and Bachmann set controller, both of which drive other locos perfectly. 
 

 

I had the exact same problem with mine. It's gone back for a replacement but before the seller would take it back they tried to tell me that a lot of Hornby locos are noisy out of the box and require to be run in. I've had at least 7 of Hornby's W4 Pecketts and they have been extremely smooth and quiet straight out of the box. You could run this thing in until hell freezes over and it's never going to be quiet and start smoothly. It also had a wobbly front wheelset.

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I had the exact same problem with mine. It's gone back for a replacement but before the seller would take it back they tried to tell me that a lot of Hornby locos are noisy out of the box and require to be run in.

Yep that’s why I videoed the Terrier as a comparison to show it wasn’t the controller. I wonder if it’s a dodgy batch of motors or a fault in the assembly squeezing something as surely the gear train is the same as Lion. 
Running in made no difference to the noise or starting. 

[Nile]

In my experience none of these (Lions or Tigers) will start smoothly, seems the motor has a high starting voltage. Fine once they get going though.

[Ruston]

45 minutes ago, Nile said:

In my experience none of these (Lions or Tigers) will start smoothly, seems the motor has a high starting voltage. Fine once they get going though.

Oh dear. How many do you have experience of?

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Nile said:

In my experience none of these (Lions or Tigers) will start smoothly, seems the motor has a high starting voltage. Fine once they get going though.

I wondered if it was the gearing but his Lion starts much less abruptly than this and without the loud buzzing. 
I’ve talked to the shop and they have suggested trying a decoder in it because their tested ones are quiet on a Gaugemaster Combi just to eliminate if it’s the Kato and Bachmann controllers causing it.
Not great if it’s that finicky for a lot of people but I do have n18 chips and also have a combi somewhere I could give him so I will dig it out to test it when I get home too. 
Updates later but the shop was most helpful and have put one by if this one remains noisy in all options. 

[Nile]

50 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Oh dear. How many do you have experience of?

Three. I haven't looked inside to see if there are any components that might affect its performance.

So no good for shunting but ok for just trundling along.

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Nile said:

So no good for shunting but ok for just trundling along.

 

I do wonder how much shunting an engine of the late 1830s would do. With the lightweight rolling stock of the day, I suspect that a lot of stock was moved around by hand, as we see in some of the L&M lithographs.  

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, Nile said:

So no good for shunting but ok for just trundling along.

With other locos in their range that have similar size wheels and other manufacturers making locos like the Beattie well tanks controllable at shunt speeds it suggests a poor choice of gear ratio is responsible for at least part of it. I can live with a slight lurch but the loud buzz before it sounds awful and it’s bizarre that the terrier is silent on the same two controllers if this is quietened by a different one. That might suggest poor components in the motor or suppression cap. 
Testing can commence in an hour or so when I get home. 

[Flying Pig]

I found an article about the Kato controller.  It is apparently producing unsmoothed "full wave" rectified power.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/131222_Kato DC Power Pack.php

 

[PaulRhB]

25 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

I found an article about the Kato controller.  It is apparently producing unsmoothed "full wave" rectified power.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/131222_Kato DC Power Pack.php

 

I’m running it in again on a combi as I type, it is quieter but certainly not quiet and still buzzes as it starts. This is probably just about acceptable for Dad but I’m going to try the decoder next and see what that’s like. The Terrier is silent on both so I think there’s something in this, on the pcb or the motor itself, that is not particularly quality compared to the terrier. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

 

Direct comparison on noise. Running is noticeably better but not perfect. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Flying Pig]

I guess the buzz prior to starting is due to a combination of motor, pcb and controller.  However the noise when running, increasing with speed,  seems to be due to the transmission.  Unless you feel like sorting that out, this example probably needs to be replaced.

 

[AY Mod]

22 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Anyone got one that resembles the review of Lion in BRM of “silky smooth”?

 

 

 

@Howard Smith - which controller did you run it with?

[PaulRhB]

11 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

I guess the buzz prior to starting is due to a combination of motor, pcb and controller.  However the noise when running, increasing with speed,  seems to be due to the transmission.  Unless you feel like sorting that out, this example probably needs to be replaced.

 

Problem is this is already the second one so I'm wondering if it’s all like this as someone else mentioned the infamous Sam had a similar issue.