Hornby Announce L&MR 0-4-2 "Lion"?

[boxbrownie]

3 minutes ago, Edge said:

Just ordered one - I’m only going to have it chugging up and down on a (as yet unbuilt) preserved railway, so I actually  like the later additions being included. 

You’re their target customer then 😁

[BlueLightning]

5 minutes ago, Edge said:

Just ordered one - I’m only going to have it chugging up and down on a (as yet unbuilt) preserved railway, so I actually  like the later additions being included. 

 

Not trying to put you off before anyone says anything, but Rapido are releasing it in the later condition, and doing it accurately (at least from what we have seen so far). The tender frames on the Hornby model are incorrect for the 1980s, so it does have some early features

[Hroth]

49 minutes ago, scumcat said:

It seems mine is arriving today, I’m am looking forward to it. I just like running trains. My layout is definitely rule one, I just run what takes my fancy. I don’t much care if it’s very prototypical. I wonder if the museum in Liverpool would let me back in to see to real one. We took the kids over to see it in the summer 2020 just as the first lockdown was ending it was beautiful. 
 

 

Don't see why not, I was there a month ago but neglected to photograph it....  :-)

 

5 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

The tender frames on the Hornby model are incorrect for the 1980s, so it does have some early features

 

But they are correct "as filmed" for the Titfield Thunderbolt', so the Rapido model must be incorrect for 1952 condition, unless they will be issuing a different tender...

 

Re the chimney.

 

Rapido have modelled a flared base to the chimney, which is incorrect for both the 1930 illustration of Lion and the 1953 Titfield Thunderbolt, while Hornby seem to have modelled it correctly.

 

Its no skin off my nose, I'm not getting either, but there's things to be said pro and con for each model.

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Hroth

[BlueLightning]

2 minutes ago, Hroth said:

But they are correct "as filmed" for the Titfield Thunderbolt', so the Rapido model must be incorrect for 1952 condition, unless they will be issuing a different tender...

 

Rapido have said there are multiple toolings to get it's condition correct for each version they are doing (1930s, Titfield, 1980s), it's not just the tender that needs to be changed

[Vanguard 5374]

I'm buying the Hornby one as I'm wanting to split the coaches from the loco. It is good value in this form:

 

• I'm tweaking the loco to a condition I want, I do not run DCC and I despise sound so happy to run it as is. Few modifications needed but I guess that's railway modelling for you, even the most detailed models need correcting for class members and details.
• The coaches are going to be converted for use on a freelance shelf project I'm working on.

Don't buy into brand loyalty but if it does use common parts to the existing Rocket model, such as motors etc, I'll be even happier. I'm keen on getting details right for my models and it's a good starting base to do so, interesting to see what the Rapido one looks like alongside but I'm happy with this one for my needs.

[adb968008]

So in 2023, I wonder if we will see Hornby maximising revenue on this with additional versions…

 

Lion

Tiger

Cheetah

Cat

Mouse

Dog

…

 

And liveries…

 

Lined Black

Sunshine Green

SECR Yellow

….

 

With Air Brakes one could even go modern, unlimited potential there…

 

interesting though, is that in 2022, despite Covid, this could be turned around very fast, when other models announced before covid are struggling to get over the line.

 

Wonder if we will see a Hornby TT range suddenly appear given recent competitive interest…. Hmm,

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by adb968008

[Legend]

I wonder if we will see Era 1 layouts at exhibitions . From nothing three years ago we now have Rocket , Lion and a reasonable range of coaches . Add to that Accurascale Chaldrons and a layout is now possible . Maybe freelance with Rocket in various paint schemes and a couple of Lions on freight .  Only issues are these terribly fiddly couplings . My eyesight certainly not up for that 

[Corbs]

36 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Rapido have modelled a flared base to the chimney, which is incorrect for both the 1930 illustration of Lion and the 1953 Titfield Thunderbolt, while Hornby seem to have modelled it correctly.

 

 

AFAIK the chimney has been consistent throughout its preserved career.




 

[Fair Oak Junction]

34 minutes ago, Legend said:

I wonder if we will see Era 1 layouts at exhibitions . From nothing three years ago we now have Rocket , Lion and a reasonable range of coaches . Add to that Accurascale Chaldrons and a layout is now possible . Maybe freelance with Rocket in various paint schemes and a couple of Lions on freight .  Only issues are these terribly fiddly couplings . My eyesight certainly not up for that 

 

Yes we might well, although out of your list only the Accurascale Chaldrons are actually Era 1 suitable. All the other "Era 1" items from Hornby are based on 20th century replicas and rebuilds (in the case of Lion) which are highly questionable in their accuracy. Or in the case of the Hornby "L&MR" goods wagons mostly fictional.

 

So any Era 1 layout using those items would be of very limited accuracy.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Obsidian Quarry

[Legend]

Just now, Obsidian Quarry said:

 

Yes we might well, although out of your list only the Accurascale Chaldrons are actually Era 1 suitable. All the other "Era 1" items from Hornby are based on 20th century replicas and rebuilds (in the case of Lion) which are highly questionable in their accuracy. Or in the case of the Hornby "L&MR" goods wagons total fiction.

 

So any Era 1 layout using those items would be of very limited accuracy.

 

Cheers  , I get that , which is why I said Freelance , but it would be possible to capture the feel of an Era 1 layout I think 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Yes I think it would be possible to create the general feel, and in fact there is a lovely WIP L&M layout on Facebook using the Hornby stock which does a good job of getting the atmosphere across. Although to be fair the excellent scenic work is what really stands out with that one.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Obsidian Quarry

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, acg5324 said:

They arrived at Monk Bar Models today, we had a little run with the one going in the display case and I’m quite impressed. Much more weighty than Rocket, ran well straight out of the box. Looks very nice. The packaging is easier to use, getting the loco out, than the Rocket although of similar style.

I wonder if the easier to use packaging will spoil the opportunities for a really good unboxing video?🤪

[jjb1970]

The open gear box is not good, an invitation to clogging and damaged gears. However in other respects it looks very nice. Is it completely accurate? By the sounds of it no, but I'm guessing that for probably 98% of those likely to buy it the issues identified here won't matter and very few will have any idea of the inaccuracies. I suspect for most people, as with the rocket, this will be seen as a nice model of an interesting prototype and something different. I am confident the Rapido offering will be the better model, but other than concerns about the open gears I really like this.

[Vanguard 5374]

Slightly out of scale but I don't know if it would be noticeable with the smaller nature of these early locos, various models have been done in HO scale from different manufacturers. 

 

Bachmann have produced a Norris 4-2-0 which is similar to locomotives used on the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway, and Trix have made a model of Der Adler with coaches. Perhaps the former would be a cheap entry into providing Era 1 models for Bachmann UK to introduce? 

 

Bashing fodder can be found in the Dapol Rocket kit. Have seen a few convincing models produced from that kit.

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

I've got a Bachmann HO "Prussia" set with the superb little Norris and coaches but sadly it really doesn't scale well with OO early railway items, which is such a shame.

Also the HO Era 1 items are often very expensive to get hold of.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Obsidian Quarry

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The open gear box is not good, an invitation to clogging and damaged gears. 

 

 

Lets see when Sam runs it on his carpet...

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, scumcat said:

I know there will be a thousand videos of this but this is my one, I paid my money and made my choice, I’m very happy with it. It is much quieter in real life the video seems to amplify the track noise

Hmmm!  I would not buy a Rapido version as I always like to support Hornby whenever I can, but with Christmas coming that might be a contender. 

[Delta_Who]

 

[Delta_Who]

I mean, I wasn't going to get either Rapido or Hornby anyway (not my kinda era). But my initial thoughts are.

- 80% of the model looks pretty ok from a novice viewpoint tbh

- No doubt the Rapido will probably win in the additional "20%"
- Some clear seam lines and flashing from the Hornby model

- Buffer detail seems cheap
- Another duplicated model... and still no electrostar xD

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Delta_Who

[The Stationmaster]

The interesting thing about this model - completely irrespective of any views about its origin or anything else - is that for me it somehow doesn't quite capture the fascination and majesty of the way the coupling rods are seen to move on an outside framed 4 coupled engine.  

 

I'm not sure why that is?   Possibly because it is running too fast, possibly because the rods lack the mass of those on much later engines, or possibly something to do with the scale.  I must look at a video of the competitor in action and see what impression that gives me because - to me at any rate - one of the key features of an outside frame engine is the majestic which in way the rods move.

 

Might just n be me but once you've seen an outside frame engine in motion it is something which never seems to leave my memory (yes I did ride behind one in BR days and yes I have ridden on the footplate of one and watched the rods fairly close up)

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

possibly because the rods lack the mass of those on much later engines

 

I suspect that's a major factor: it's not conforming to your preconceptions. 

 

How does it feel from this bit of film, from the 1930 centenary, which seems to show a reasonable turn of speed:

 

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I suspect that's a major factor: it's not conforming to your preconceptions. 

 

How does it feel from this bit of film, from the 1930 centenary, which seems to show a reasonable turn of speed:

powered by a petrol engine in the tender

Edited September 30, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

The interesting thing about this model - completely irrespective of any views about its origin or anything else - is that for me it somehow doesn't quite capture the fascination and majesty of the way the coupling rods are seen to move on an outside framed 4 coupled engine.  

 

I'm not sure why that is?   Possibly because it is running too fast,

The video gives me the impression its slipping - the rods are going round far too fast for the speed.

[didcot]

It seems to be in steam. I wonder if its the frame rate in the old film that makes it look fast.

It does look more sedate in the Titfield Thunderbolt. 

[Lacathedrale]

I would be interested but isn't it a bit weird there's no pseudo-original condition, only the early and later preservation?