KR Models announced intention: Haydock Foundry 0-6-0WT 'Bellerophon'

[Ruston]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:06, BVMR21 said:

Couple of reason they have cited, first one being the differences between Bellerophon and the other locos, and the second being the nameplate for Bellerophon is injection moulded (at least to me it looks that way) and they would need to create a new plate for another loco.

The differences are there, yes, but the basic engines are all very similar 0-6-0WTs with the same valve gear. Anyone who would be bothered about the individual differences could modify them to be accurate. As for moulding the name plate into the tooling - oh dear. If only they'd have given this a bit more thought then I'm sure Narrow Planet or Railtec could have made a lot of sales.

We as modellers make stuff up all the time to justify running something on our layouts and that's our prerogative - Modeller's Licence, if you will , but I'm against manufacturers doing it. There are so many people who seem to take as gospel what the manufacturers put out and they think that the manufacturers know more than anyone, even when they are wrong. This kind of deliberate fiction only makes it worse.

 

Oh well, I can't wait to see the the Caledonian-liveried one! 😁

Edited September 28, 2023 by Ruston
speling orrors

[JSpencer]

At the end of the day, if they make some fictive liveries and succeed in selling them, then who am I to care that it is not historically correct?

 

Would I want them? In general no.

 

Do they sell well? not always. But there seems to be few areas that work just. 

 

For this loco, a DCC sound option would be most welcome for me. 

[Compound2632]

On 27/09/2023 at 11:55, Compound2632 said:

It would look nice in fully-lined Midland red...

 

Perhaps I should have been more explicit and said, "like the Lickey banker".

[Invicta]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:38, Ruston said:

We as modellers make stuff up all the time to justify running something on our layouts and that's our prerogative - Modeller's Licence, if you will , but I'm against manufacturers doing it. There are so many people who seem to take as gospel what the manufacturers put out and they think that the manufacturers know more than anyone, even when they are wrong. This kind of deliberate fiction only makes it worse.

 

Oh well, I can't wait to see the the Caledonian-liveried one! 😁

 

I can see the appeal of offering it in a couple of generic liveries for those modelling a fictitious light railway or industrial location to re-name/number, similar to how Planet released the Victory in plain colours as well as the ROD/IWDD versions, but personally, I don't see the appeal of a fictitious livery as specific as the Longmoor one

[Colin_McLeod]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:38, Ruston said:

We as modellers make stuff up all the time to justify running something on our layouts and that's our prerogative - Modeller's Licence, if you will , but I'm against manufacturers doing it. There are so many people who seem to take as gospel what the manufacturers put out and they think that the manufacturers know more than anyone, even when they are wrong. This kind of deliberate fiction only makes it worse.

 

 

 😁

 

So does it follow that you feel the same about the Hattons and the Hornby generic four and six wheel coaches, and the alternative liveries of the Rapido APTE?

[Ruston]

14 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

So does it follow that you feel the same about the Hattons and the Hornby generic four and six wheel coaches, and the alternative liveries of the Rapido APTE?

Go on then, I'll bite...

 

I don't know much about them. I don't model pre-group passenger trains. I do know that I'm not capable of painting and lining coach kits in those complex liveries, so if I did model them I would consider Hattons coaches but then I know very little about coaches in general. That said, if I get an interest in something I learn about it and will either do it or weigh up the compromises. If I felt that the Hattons coaches are too far from my intended prototype then I'd have to reconsider what I was doing.

 

I have absolutely no idea about the Rapido APTE. I didn't even know that such a model exists as it is completely outside my sphere of interest, so all I can say on that is that it's a very well known train, a one-off that there is lots of information about, in books and on the internet. It's quite obvious that any spurious livery is exactly that. It's completely different to making up what amounts to a false history on an industrial prototype, where relatively little information exists.

 

19 hours ago, Invicta said:

 

I can see the appeal of offering it in a couple of generic liveries for those modelling a fictitious light railway or industrial location to re-name/number, similar to how Planet released the Victory in plain colours as well as the ROD/IWDD versions, but personally, I don't see the appeal of a fictitious livery as specific as the Longmoor one

Exactly.

[jjb1970]

Fictitious liveries don't normally do anything for me, I'm not even that much into genuine examples when companies repaint stuff into legacy liveries. However, if others like it and it garners an extra few sales for the manufacturer then why not? 

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

legacy liveries

 

What is a "legacy livery"?

[Darius43]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What is a "legacy livery"?

Perhaps it’s some form of  “homage”, like the BR liveried GBRF Class 66s.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[jjb1970]

Legacy, heritage, retro, all terms are used.

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Legacy, heritage, retro, all terms are used.

 

To my mind, there are four different types of livery a preserved locomotive might carry:

1. a livery worn by the locomotive pre-preservation, when the locomotive was in the condition to which its preserved state more-or-less corresponds;
2. a livery worn by the locomotive pre-preservation, but when in a different condition to that in which it is preserved, e.g. City of Truro in pre-1906 livery with Indian red frames;
3. an authentic livery worn by a locomotive that never carried ite pre-preservation, such as the Caledonian livery sported by the L&HR's 2-6-4T in its early days, or the Midland red worn by a couple of LMS Standard 0-6-0Ts;
4. a livery that is entirely new, such as the Jubilee purple worn by Taw Valley last year

So which word applies to which case? Note that none of these are "fictional" liveries since they have, in fact, been worn by the locomotives in question!

[jjb1970]

I wasn't talking about preserved railways, I meant in-service trains painted in an old heritage livery, either an accurate application or some sort of homage. They're not fictional liveries because they're carried by actual trains but they really don't move me, with few exceptions. Very common on airliners, probably much more so than trains.

[adb968008]

Of all possible generic permutations, LMR would seem odd.

 

i’m surprised weve not gotten a BR Version.

[Butler Henderson]

Possibly because it's blue and blue steam locos do sell well normally

[zr2498]

We are now in the Autumn - any news on dleiveries?

[Pre Grouping fan]

38 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

We are now in the Autumn - any news on dleiveries?

 

If the 2nd EP is only where it's got to it's unlikely to be out this year unless they are decorating them before they get sent over to Keith or Michael for inspection.

 

That's just my opinion, presumably if there was news from the Great Electric Train show last weekend it would have been posted by now 

[BVMR21]

Last email to come from KR Models was pretty much only about existing stock levels getting low, so I don't think we're going to see much regarding Bellerophon. Given that they only recently suggested their LMR Blue Bellerophon I would hazard a guess we're going to be waiting until Warley to see any public progress.

[Michael Hodgson]

Without trawling though reams of earlier postings, can I ask if we have yet got to the bottom of whether the "working valve gear" will indeed work properly on the production model? 

 

The last impression I got was that it was going to be an approximation to but not fully accurate working motion, so I haven't ordered one.

[BVMR21]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Without trawling though reams of earlier postings, can I ask if we have yet got to the bottom of whether the "working valve gear" will indeed work properly on the production model? 

 

The last impression I got was that it was going to be an approximation to but not fully accurate working motion, so I haven't ordered one.

It's not 100% accurately working due to, as they have stated, a part that would have had to have been 0.5mm to be scale accurate.

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, BVMR21 said:

It's not 100% accurately working due to, as they have stated, a part that would have had to have been 0.5mm to be scale accurate.

 

Best not mention the Leader's coal then.

[Schooner]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

have yet got to the bottom of whether the "working valve gear" will indeed work properly

No...

 

...but...

 

...no.

 

It could still look good enough to a blind man on a fast horse in the sleet gone midnight though (my target level of modelling accuracy), but sadly not pre-order territory for me.

[Michael Hodgson]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Best not mention the Leader's coal then.

Sorry about raising that point on the Leader's own thread ! 

But let's be positive.  That coal is probably about the right size for Gauge 1 though.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Best not mention the Leader's coal then.

 

Working coal - there's an idea. Although plastic coal *should* burn too.

[The Stationmaster]

On 18/10/2023 at 22:35, zr2498 said:

We are now in the Autumn - any news on dleiveries?

Don't forget there is 'Autumn' and there is 'Autumn' and it means two differe nt things before KR or any other model railway company puts their interpretation on it. Astronomical Autumn this year runs from 23 September and ends on 22 December while Meteorological Autumn is the months of September, October, and November.

 

So they have until either the end of November, or until 22 December before Autumn ends.  However with Bellerophon only at second EP when that was published they might make decorated sample for Warley.  But unless there.are no problems with them they're unlikely to be delivered in any version of Autumn 2023 as the pre-prpduction samples would still be to come before full production starts.

 

On 19/10/2023 at 12:11, Michael Hodgson said:

Without trawling though reams of earlier postings, can I ask if we have yet got to the bottom of whether the "working valve gear" will indeed work properly on the production model? 

 

The last impression I got was that it was going to be an approximation to but not fully accurate working motion, so I haven't ordered one.

Dismissed some time back - even they have given up on the idea that it would be 'fully working'.  It never even got anywhere near any sort of EP in  which it could be seen to be fully working because part of the valve gear was always a one piece plastic moulding.  I have long wondered if they were kidding themselves. let alone customers, when they stated that the valve gear would be fully working because it would have required some very precise, and strong, miniatiure components in order to achieve it.

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Don't forget there is 'Autumn' and there is 'Autumn' and it means two differe nt things before KR or any other model railway company puts their interpretation on it. Astronomical Autumn this year runs from 23 September and ends on 22 December while Meteorological Autumn is the months of September, October, and November.

 

So they have until either the end of November, or until 22 December before Autumn ends.  However with Bellerophon only at second EP when that was published they might make decorated sample for Warley.  But unless there.are no problems with them they're unlikely to be delivered in any version of Autumn 2023 as the pre-prpduction samples would still be to come before full production starts.

 

Dismissed some time back - even they have given up on the idea that it would be 'fully working'.  It never even got anywhere near any sort of EP in  which it could be seen to be fully working because part of the valve gear was always a one piece plastic moulding.  I have long wondered if they were kidding themselves. let alone customers, when they stated that the valve gear would be fully working because it would have required some very precise, and strong, miniatiure components in order to achieve it.

 

At the time the 'fully working' claim was made, I suspect that they had not seen more than a photo of the real thing.

 

CJI.

Edited October 20, 2023 by cctransuk