The HAA and extended MGR family, CDA and MHA in OO/4mm, by Accurascale

[hmrspaul]

On 15/05/2022 at 11:11, Gary H said:

Sorry if this has already been covered (ive a feeling it has) ,did the HAA's work with HBA's with the extended tops to the body?

 

Discussed in some detail on DEMU forum. Mixing in Scotland strictly controlled, and train lengths restriced because of some important bridges. But there is some in these photos at Millerhill - one of the main staging / shunting yards in Scotland where wagons requiring maintenance etc would be removed and replaced in Rakes. 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaatopskip/e1bb0f916

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaatopskip/ee6d9e81

 

You don't mention what era you are interested in. As already mentioned top skips/capes were a Scottish thing until the 1990s 

 

Paul

[C126]

Sorry to divert the conversation, but I keep meaning to ask @Accurascale Fran to confirm the CBA variant will only be made in 'N', please?  Thanks.

[Gary H]

30 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Discussed in some detail on DEMU forum. Mixing in Scotland strictly controlled, and train lengths restriced because of some important bridges. But there is some in these photos at Millerhill - one of the main staging / shunting yards in Scotland where wagons requiring maintenance etc would be removed and replaced in Rakes. 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaatopskip/e1bb0f916

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaatopskip/ee6d9e81

 

You don't mention what era you are interested in. As already mentioned top skips/capes were a Scottish thing until the 1990s 

 

Paul

I'm trying to stick to mid to late 80's with a little modeller's license thrown in for good measure where needs be.

[Accurascale Fran]

1 hour ago, C126 said:

Sorry to divert the conversation, but I keep meaning to ask @Accurascale Fran to confirm the CBA variant will only be made in 'N', please?  Thanks.

 

Hi @C126,

 

All our project MGR wagons are OO/4mm. We havent announced any N gauge variants of these models.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[brushman47544]

15 hours ago, JN said:

 

I think you mean the models seem to have incorrect colours compared to the photos. Well, possibly, due to:

Different colours (BR Bauxite Brown/Experimental Railfreight Red/not Railfreight Red)

Sun bleaching and other environmental conditions (perhaps even the washing of the wagons would have an impact on the colours too)

Red paint is renowned for fading with exposure to sunlight as you mention and I certainly remember seeing very different red painted HAAs depending on how weathered they were.

Edited May 16, 2022 by brushman47544

[andyman7]

10 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Red paint is renowned for fading with exposure to sunlight as you mention and I certainly remember seeing very different red painted HAAs depending on how weathered they were.

Yes indeed, anyone who remembers Network SouthEast red lamposts and how quickly they went pink will attest to this!

[Torbay Express]

8 hours ago, mozzer models said:

Mine arrived Friday

IMG20220515234420 by brian mosby, on Flickr

 

O and I may Have A Accurascale Problem lol

IMG20220515235118 by brian mosby, on Flickr

That's not a problem, just a nice collection.  Could be worse - wouldn't fit many HYAs in!

[Guest]

I now have my second pack (Railfreight Red - ACC2561 RR2) on the way! As said before, hoping to have next of all/or any of the following packs: HDA (2570-2), HMA (2585) and HBA (2590-1)😎👍.

[64F]

Re. mixing of wagons with and without top skips, this was pretty common on the Cockenzie PS trains in the 1980s-90s but perhaps it was atypical even in Scotland.  I grew up in East Lothian so my perspective might have been skewed!  There are lots of images on Flickr showing mixed rakes on the Cockenzie MGRs:

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by 64F

[Graham108]

19 hours ago, mozzer models said:

O and I may Have A Accurascale Problem lol

Unfortunately there's no known cure for this. I understand A/S have taken out a Divorce Liability Insurance  policy for the many claims that may head their way.

[C126]

16 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @C126,

 

All our project MGR wagons are OO/4mm. We havent announced any N gauge variants of these models.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Dear Fran, thanks for the confirmation.  I look forward to their release as soon as possible, and running them under 'rule 1' on the S.R.

[Torbay Express]

9 hours ago, C126 said:

 

Dear Fran, thanks for the confirmation.  I look forward to their release as soon as possible, and running them under 'rule 1' on the S.R.

They used to go to Blue Circles Cement works in London area as a rake to make cement.......

(Sorry forgot the name)

[Southernman46]

1 hour ago, Torbay Express said:

They used to go to Blue Circles Cement works in London area as a rake to make cement.......

(Sorry forgot the name)

As far as the SR (Eastern section) is concerned during the 70 - 90's there were MGR flows of coal to Northfleet Cement works, Kemsley Papers mills on the Isle of Sheppey, Aylesford paper mills on the Maidstone branch - all starting in the Midlands . There was also a flow of mined coal from Betteshanger Colliery in Kent which went somewhere off the SR.

I cannot recall any MGR flow on the Central section unless Southerham Cement works was thus supplied for a while.

On the Western section - During the early 2000's the was a short-lived flow of imported coal from Southampton Docks to Didcot PS which supplemented that via Avonmouth.

[C126]

11 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

As far as the SR (Eastern section) is concerned during the 70 - 90's there were MGR flows of coal to Northfleet Cement works, Kemsley Papers mills on the Isle of Sheppey, Aylesford paper mills on the Maidstone branch - all starting in the Midlands . There was also a flow of mined coal from Betteshanger Colliery in Kent which went somewhere off the SR.

I cannot recall any MGR flow on the Central section unless Southerham Cement works was thus supplied for a while.

On the Western section - During the early 2000's the was a short-lived flow of imported coal from Southampton Docks to Didcot PS which supplemented that via Avonmouth.

 

Sorry @Southernman46 and @Torbay Express , I misunderstood the latter's comment.  I mean to run CBAs under 'Rule 1' to my Central Div. goods yard, not a rake of M.G.R. wagons.  There was a rake of the latter built cut-down to Hastings gauge to fuel a gypsum plant, I think, as well as a 'normal rake' for minings from Betteshanger Colliery to send northwards.  But I do not think there were CBAs used anywhere on the Southern, alas.  The CBAs transported lime, rock salt, and potash, so I was going to use a couple for some sort of mineral (Fuller's earth, as they are covered?), although have half-a-dozen POAs already for chalk.  Thanks to you both for your contributions, and best wishes.

[Torbay Express]

55 minutes ago, C126 said:

 

Sorry @Southernman46 and @Torbay Express , I misunderstood the latter's comment.  I mean to run CBAs under 'Rule 1' to my Central Div. goods yard, not a rake of M.G.R. wagons.  There was a rake of the latter built cut-down to Hastings gauge to fuel a gypsum plant, I think, as well as a 'normal rake' for minings from Betteshanger Colliery to send northwards.  But I do not think there were CBAs used anywhere on the Southern, alas.  The CBAs transported lime, rock salt, and potash, so I was going to use a couple for some sort of mineral (Fuller's earth, as they are covered?), although have half-a-dozen POAs already for chalk.  Thanks to you both for your contributions, and best wishes.

No problems.  Learn't something new myself - not aware of CBA, thought it may have been a miss-type. Will have to have a look in my old SCT wagon books - curiosity and that!  Sure somewhere Accurascale said they have the toolings made flexible enough so they vwere eventually going to do limestone versions etc..  They will bankrupt you one way or another......

[C126]

@Torbay Express I do recommend David Ratcliffe's 'BR air-braked wagons in colour', Hersham : Ian Allan Publishing, 2014.  This contains photos of nearly all the TOPS wagons, as far as I can see, and will have you imagining all sorts of traffics that 'might have been' for one's layout as an excuse to run as wide a variety of vehicles as possible.  There is also an accompanying book by Trevor Mann, 'British Railways unfitted and vacuum-braked wagons in colour', of 2013 (which contains a detailed list of T.O.P.S. codes, sadly missing from Ratcliffe's work).  'If you can not have the wagon, have a book about it instead...'

[C126]

To correct my statement above about cut-down M.G.R. hoppers supplying coal to a Gypsum plant, these were built to carry the gypsum itself to Mountfleet and Northfleet cement works.  Further details on Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/apcmgypsum

 

and the LTSV wagon profile site, thus:

 

https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_030.php

 

Sorry about the confusion.

[hmrspaul]

4 hours ago, C126 said:

To correct my statement above about cut-down M.G.R. hoppers supplying coal to a Gypsum plant, these were built to carry the gypsum itself to Mountfleet and Northfleet cement works.  Further details on Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/apcmgypsum

 

and the LTSV wagon profile site, thus:

 

https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_030.php

 

Sorry about the confusion.

As I mention Full drawings and details of use are in
Monk-Steel, David (2011) Merry-go-round on the rails. HMRS publishing, Butterley Station, Derbys. 196 pages ISBN 978-0-902835-30-6.

 

Before a move to Sheffield, David worked on the freight side of SR in the Thames estuary area. 

 

The book also has a drawing of the CBA 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcba

 

Paul

Edited May 18, 2022 by hmrspaul

[Gary H]

The burning question I'd like to pose. 

Has anyone found a way to add a realistic load to the HAA's without casting in the cross-braces in a solid mass/ non permanent bond ?😆

[C126]

8 minutes ago, Gary H said:

The burning question I'd like to pose. 

Has anyone found a way to add a realistic load to the HAA's without casting in the cross-braces in a solid mass/ non permanent bond ?😆

 

Could one mould a shape in silicone/rubber which then could be inserted under the braces?  Limited flexibility would allow sieved coal to be glued on with Copydex.

[Gary H]

1 minute ago, C126 said:

 

Could one mould a shape in silicone/rubber which then could be inserted under the braces?  Limited flexibility would allow sieved coal to be glued on with Copydex.

Probably the way forward.

It has to be a method whereby the models details are not damaged if the load needed to be removed.

[brushman47544]

23 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

As far as the SR (Eastern section) is concerned during the 70 - 90's there were MGR flows of coal to Northfleet Cement works, Kemsley Papers mills on the Isle of Sheppey, Aylesford paper mills on the Maidstone branch - all starting in the Midlands . There was also a flow of mined coal from Betteshanger Colliery in Kent which went somewhere off the SR.

I cannot recall any MGR flow on the Central section unless Southerham Cement works was thus supplied for a while.

On the Western section - During the early 2000's the was a short-lived flow of imported coal from Southampton Docks to Didcot PS which supplemented that via Avonmouth.

Class 45s we’re regular performers on coal flows from the MR onto the Eastern Section, running via Dudding Hill, in the 70s and 80s. I’ve seen plenty of them at Clapham Jct on the Northfleet working with HAAs. Peaks also appeared in the 70s on MCVs from Tilmanstone Colliery to the MR.

[Torbay Express]

10 hours ago, C126 said:

To correct my statement above about cut-down M.G.R. hoppers supplying coal to a Gypsum plant, these were built to carry the gypsum itself to Mountfleet and Northfleet cement works.  Further details on Paul Bartlett's excellent site:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/apcmgypsum

 

and the LTSV wagon profile site, thus:

 

https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_030.php

 

Sorry about the confusion.

Certainly an oddity, with 2 hoppers vice 3.  Certainly got very different proportions to the majority.

[black and decker boy]

2 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

Certainly an oddity, with 2 hoppers vice 3.  Certainly got very different proportions to the majority.

Cut down coal hoppers aren’t a modern thing then (I know these were built this way but the parallel  is there to the HYA/IIA)

[Torbay Express]

1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

Cut down coal hoppers aren’t a modern thing then (I know these were built this way but the parallel  is there to the HYA/IIA)

Just on about how proportionally they don't look as good as the types they made thousands of.  Just look weird.  The HYAs cut down don't look bad at all.