Class 59 from Revolution Trains

[bmthtrains - David]

I’m sensing mission creep here. An unpopular opinion perhaps but I really hope Revolution don’t produce a class 66. The noble aim of using the crowdfunder approach to produce models that wouldn’t be viable for the main manufacturers seems a bit at odds with duplicating 2 existing models of the most numerous class of locomotives around.

 

Given the grumbles about lack of availability of core items of rolling stock, producing models of said core items using the pre-order-only financial model that leaves no stock on the shelves after a few months at best only makes things worse. 
 

If this were to put Dapol off, for example, as they would be more exposed than Revolution who only make what is pre-ordered, and Farish drop any (likely) plans to upgrade their model, we could end up in a situation 6 months after Revolution’s model comes out where you can’t buy an N gauge 66 at all.

 

This doesn’t seem healthy for the hobby at all.

 

How about making some OTP instead, you know you want to…

 

David

 

[Revolution Ben]

3 hours ago, bmthtrains - David said:

I’m sensing mission creep here. An unpopular opinion perhaps but I really hope Revolution don’t produce a class 66. The noble aim of using the crowdfunder approach to produce models that wouldn’t be viable for the main manufacturers seems a bit at odds with duplicating 2 existing models of the most numerous class of locomotives around.

 

Given the grumbles about lack of availability of core items of rolling stock, producing models of said core items using the pre-order-only financial model that leaves no stock on the shelves after a few months at best only makes things worse. 
 

If this were to put Dapol off, for example, as they would be more exposed than Revolution who only make what is pre-ordered, and Farish drop any (likely) plans to upgrade their model, we could end up in a situation 6 months after Revolution’s model comes out where you can’t buy an N gauge 66 at all.

 

This doesn’t seem healthy for the hobby at all.

 

How about making some OTP instead, you know you want to…

 

David

 

 

Hi David,

 

I could argue the opposite:  That a competitive market, which gives the consumer a choice, is almost the definition of a healthy and thriving hobby.

 

More seriously:  Feedback we have, and our own view, is that the existing 66s on the market don't really cut it any more, and if you've developed a 59 then it isn't a huge stretch to get to a 66.

 

We have started to offer reruns as our business grows - eg Class B tankers, Pendolinos, JNA and TEA wagons in 00 - and although I am not able to give more detail now we have in mind a new marketing methodology for the 66 which *should* make it a little different to anything that we have done before.

 

Incidentally, you may recall that the original Farish and Dapol 66s were launched almost within days of each other, suggesting the market can support more than one manufacturer of this ubiquitous type.

 

Also, who says we aren't developing OTP?  You're right - we do want to!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Revolution Ben

[bmthtrains - David]

Hi Ben, a 66 definitely makes sense from your business perspective and competition itself I have no issue with, it’s the limited availability on such an important item that worries me.

 

I’d love to see Revolution expand but hopefully with your models on the shelves in lots of local model shops, with good availability over a longer period of time. Without that I’m not sure this would offer consumer choice as you say, due to the pressure to preorder all the liveries you want in one go, or buy afterwards from a very limited number of retailers before they sell out. 

 

As you imply, things might be a little different with this currently hypothetical 66 so hopefully my concerns will become moot. And at least we know yours would be the right colours…
 

I will watch with interest, and thanks for responding to my thoughts.

 

David 

[Revolution Ben]

2 hours ago, bmthtrains - David said:

I’d love to see Revolution expand but hopefully with your models on the shelves in lots of local model shops, with good availability over a longer period of time. Without that I’m not sure this would offer consumer choice as you say, due to the pressure to preorder all the liveries you want in one go, or buy afterwards from a very limited number of retailers before they sell out. 

 

<snipped>

 

David 

 

Hi David,

 

Yes, the issue around intermittent supply is one that has vexed us too.  We completely get that not everyone can have everything all at once, and that when popular items sell out it can be frustrating, especially to 'new blood' coming into the hobby.

 

But the reality is that the only way of avoiding this is to have larger production runs and be prepared to hold stock.  Holding stock requires somewhere to store it, and a larger production runs means a bigger upfront payment to the factory.  These both cost money.  Bachmann/Farish do it this way and have a large warehouse and their pricing reflects this.

 

Smaller manufacturers without such resources, who want to keep their prices more competitive, have to look at alternate methodology.  Having a pre-order book open for as long as possible, and inviting retailers to stock items post production, is the best way we have found to square that circle and *most* Revolution models are available still if you look.

 

It is not a perfect solution but then in the current climate I am not sure if there is one, and I am keen to avoid letting perfect be the enemy of good! 

 

cheers

 

Ben

Edited March 24, 2023 by Revolution Ben

[Ed-farms]

I suppose the simple logic here is, IF Revolution ever announce plans to make a 66 the market will dictate if that happens. Some people will clamber for it, others will stick with what they have and others (such as myself) who don't model post privatisation will have no need for a 66 either way.

 

Suppose the best analogy is "build it and they will come" or at least "offer it and they will buy"

[Revolution Mike]

In addition to what Ben said on supply - everyone batch produces. There’s been some Farish or Dapol models that if you didn’t buy right away then there was no guarantee that you’d get it (there were even some where pre-orders couldn’t be satisfied). 
 

One of the advantages of batch production that is rarely mentioned is that it has enabled a much wider choice of prototypes to be produced as finite production/development isn’t only tied up to re—running existing models. Of course that means that some “core” models are re-run or not as quickly as some would want. We all have to look for the right balance. 

[Davexoc]

10 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

Yes, the issue around intermittent supply is one that has vexed us too.  We completely get that not everyone can have everything all at once, and that when popular items sell out it can be frustrating, especially to 'new blood' coming into the hobby.

 

But the reality is that the only way of avoiding this is to have larger production runs and be prepared to hold stock.  Holding stock requires somewhere to store it, and a larger production runs means a bigger upfront payment to the factory.  These both cost money.  Bachmann/Farish do it this way and have a large warehouse and their pricing reflects this.

 

Smaller manufacturers without such resources, who want to keep their prices more competitive, have to look at alternate methodology.  Having a pre-order book open for as long as possible, and inviting retailers to stock items post production, is the best way we have found to square that circle and *most* Revolution models are available still if you look.

 

It is not a perfect solution but then in the current climate I am not sure if there is one, and I am keen to avoid letting perfect be the enemy of good!

 

When you look at the NGN Accurascale poll, long term availability was mid-table. Warehousing is expensive, especially when you would want things kept in a controlled environment that gets neither too hot or too cold and damp.

 

Railway modelling is more marathon than sprint, and requires a degree of patience. Good things will come to those that wait....

[Steven B]

Little and often was suggested in the recent video with Accurascale.

Anything's better than the decade long wait between reruns of Farish coaches! (unless of course you want a livery that was only carried by three coaches in which case there will be another batch next week...

 

Steven B

[Michael Hodgson]

On 24/03/2023 at 00:09, Revolution Ben said:

Also, who says we aren't developing OTP?  You're right - we do want to!

A fascinating but seriously neglected area.  There's plenty of items not been done, some self-propelled while others are not. and from a wide range of dates.

I'm thinking of items varying in size from the very big like stone blowers, rail grinding trains or the newish Mobile Maintenance trains to the things so small they might be hard to motorise, like Pemaclipper or the old Matisa Neptunes.

 

It is also a much more suitable type of product appropriate to the use of crowd funding for finance.

 

Anything specific in mind?

[Revolution Ben]

45 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

A fascinating but seriously neglected area.  There's plenty of items not been done, some self-propelled while others are not. and from a wide range of dates.

I'm thinking of items varying in size from the very big like stone blowers, rail grinding trains or the newish Mobile Maintenance trains to the things so small they might be hard to motorise, like Pemaclipper or the old Matisa Neptunes.

 

It is also a much more suitable type of product appropriate to the use of crowd funding for finance.

 

Anything specific in mind?

 

Hi there,

 

Yes, and once we have delivered a few of the delayed models we will feel more comfortable offering completely new items.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Revolution Ben

[GEARJAMMER]

On 22/03/2023 at 12:05, Revolution Ben said:

 

Thanks!  Just wait until you see the obvious follow up... 

 

Re the 59 in 00:  We've been asked this a lot at shows etc by 00 guys looking at the samples.  We did think about it but the recently released rival model seems to have satisfied most 4mm customers... are we wrong in that assessment?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Yes, i think you are wrong, but i can only go on my personal opinion.

 

We waited a long long time for that OO gauge 59 to arrive, with some of the errors being pointed out at the design stage, yet they made it into production regardless, which i think these days is unacceptable, i just can't help but feel that if it had been designed by yourselves, or Cavalex or Accurascale and i know you three are technically competitors but the one thing you have in common is you have all raised the standard and listen to your customers, then the errors, such as the over height exhaust, wrong chassis shape under the cab, incorrect lighting and the one i can't ignore, the incorrect radio pods would not have happened.

 

You say the rival model has satisfied most 4mm customers, well yes technically it has but only because there is no other option except the Hornby offering, and that wasn't hard to beat really was it?

 

To date i still don't own any class 59s (except my old Lima examples), i can't bring myself to buy the new release with its errors and was so gutted when i seen them. I await the next batch from them with interest, if they to have the same errors my nagging of you to upscale yours will go into overdrive.

 

I already know if you upscale yours, it will be better than the competition. Look at it this way, the Hornby class 60 is a very good model, but the Cavalex class 60 will be better again, the same can be said for your class 59!

 

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi there,

 

Yes, and once we have delivered a few of the delayed models we will feel more comfortable offering completely new items.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Fair point.  I'm looking forward to the OO Cartics and the TUAs anyway , but I do understand things have been difficult generally because of Covid's impact on the factories and business generally  😀

Edited March 26, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[Revolution Mike B]

22 hours ago, GEARJAMMER said:

Yes, i think you are wrong, but i can only go on my personal opinion.

 

We waited a long long time for that OO gauge 59 to arrive, with some of the errors being pointed out at the design stage, yet they made it into production regardless, which i think these days is unacceptable, i just can't help but feel that if it had been designed by yourselves, or Cavalex or Accurascale and i know you three are technically competitors but the one thing you have in common is you have all raised the standard and listen to your customers, then the errors, such as the over height exhaust, wrong chassis shape under the cab, incorrect lighting and the one i can't ignore, the incorrect radio pods would not have happened.

 

You say the rival model has satisfied most 4mm customers, well yes technically it has but only because there is no other option except the Hornby offering, and that wasn't hard to beat really was it?

 

To date i still don't own any class 59s (except my old Lima examples), i can't bring myself to buy the new release with its errors and was so gutted when i seen them. I await the next batch from them with interest, if they to have the same errors my nagging of you to upscale yours will go into overdrive.

 

I already know if you upscale yours, it will be better than the competition. Look at it this way, the Hornby class 60 is a very good model, but the Cavalex class 60 will be better again, the same can be said for your class 59!

 

I think what Ben is alluding to here is that many people aren’t aware of any omissions / inaccuracies with the Dapol 59 (I own one myself) and therefore wouldn’t feel the need to replace them, or purchase another one (or several more) because their needs have already been satisfied. It’s a tough call to be honest but I can 100% agree that the feedback we’ve had is that the Dapol one looks like 59 and people are willing to accept it. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Revolution Mike B

[woodenhead]

49 minutes ago, Revolution Mike B said:

I think what Ben is alluding to here is that many people aren’t aware of any omissions / inaccuracies with the Dapol 59 (I own one myself) and therefore wouldn’t feel the need to replace them, or purchase another one (or several more) because their needs have already been satisfied. It’s a tough call to be honest but I can 100% agree that the feedback we’ve had is that the Dapol one looks like 59 and people are more than happy with it. 

@GEARJAMMER If Mike is happy to have one on his railway, I think you need to accept it will be a long wait before RevolutioN see a market for another OO class 59.  The Dapol version has to be better than the Lima version, you may need to bite the bullet and accept if you want an up to date class 59 with all the bits and bobs that brings it will be a Dapol one.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

Just a gentle reminder that if you want to pre-order a Revolution Class 59, or upgrade an order from DC Silent to DCC sound, please do so before the deadline tomorrow (Friday) at midnight.  The advance order price is £124.95 (DC Silent) or £219.95 (DCC Sound.)

 

Also, I strongly recommend not leaving it until the very last minute as experience shows lots of simultaneous orders can cause the merchandising interface to creak a bit, with the possibility that orders get missed.

 

Of course if you don't want to pre-order that is fine - the models will be available from our usual retailers with an MSRP of £154.95 (DC Silent) or £259.95 (DCC Sound.)

 

 

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Revolution Ben

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

I have added a news item to our website explaining the various subtle and not-so-subtle detail differences between the various sub-classes, and individual locos.

 

For example, the original Class 50/0 locomotives had the exhaust facing left, no NRN pods, single dampers on outer bogie axles only and no centre yaw damper.  All of these were later altered.

 

 

The article has similar diagrams for the other sub-classes.  See here: https://revolutiontrains.com/news/

 

If you're still umming and erring about whether to pre-order it might be of assitance.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[scruff]

Having ordered a sound fitted 59/1 at a minute to midnight last night, i have a question..

Will the sound chips be available separately to allow us to upgrade the DCC ready versions to sound?

I only ask as I have ordered 3 DCC ready ones and would love more sound fitted versions.

Cheers

Mark

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Mark,

 

Yes, Loksound 5 Nano E24 decoders are in production and are scheduled to be available before the locos arrive.

 

If you want the same sound project as installed in the Revolution models, that we recorded at Merehead last year, then you'll need to purchase it from Legomanbiffo.  I haven't looked but there may be other class 59 sound files available.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Mike B]

5 hours ago, scruff said:

Having ordered a sound fitted 59/1 at a minute to midnight last night, i have a question..

Will the sound chips be available separately to allow us to upgrade the DCC ready versions to sound?

I only ask as I have ordered 3 DCC ready ones and would love more sound fitted versions.

Cheers

Mark

Just to follow up on Ben’s post, the sound decoders are already available as a Loksound 5 Nano wired version and have been for some while, however ESU are now supplying them without the wired adapter. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Revolution Mike B
Typo

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

5 hours ago, Revolution Mike B said:

Just to follow up on Ben’s post, the sound decoders are already available as a Loksound 5 Nano wired version and have been for some while, however ESU are now supplying them without the wired adapter. 

As long as they work on the 00 version when you get around to it then for Oak Road.

[Patriot87003]

On 11/08/2021 at 14:08, DavidMcKenzie said:

 

That looks like a good excuse for the northern stretch Simon, you'll have yet another excuse for an early 90s running day .

 

I've spent the lunch break trying to find an excuse for the southern end. Looks like this Merehead Quarry to Purfleet working is just the thing. Not sure of the exact route but it's here at Willesden Junction (photo found on Flickr, not mine) and that's more than good enough for me. 

 

All the best,

Dave 

 

 

Only just stumbled across this! Another excuse for you to justify Class 59s passing Dallam is that during 28th August 1995 as part of the Crewe Basford Hall open day event, Pathfinder operated a mini tour from Crewe to Wigan NW and back. It used 90139 to haul north top-n-tail with 59003 and 59101 to haul south, before taking a tour back to Bristol. I was lucky enough to be aboard and grabbed a couple of pics … further details on Six Bells Jn page below.

 

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk (Then use the Railtour files to find the Crewe Excursioner Tour; 28/08/95)

90139 at Wigan NW

59003 and 59101 leaving Crewe after the mini-tour, on it’s way back to Bristol TM

 

(I’ve just been searching Class 59 WCML wanderings to justify a OO gauge bargain! 🤭)

 

[porkie]

On 16/05/2023 at 19:33, Patriot87003 said:

Only just stumbled across this! Another excuse for you to justify Class 59s passing Dallam is that during 28th August 1995 as part of the Crewe Basford Hall open day event, Pathfinder operated a mini tour from Crewe to Wigan NW and back. It used 90139 to haul north top-n-tail with 59003 and 59101 to haul south, before taking a tour back to Bristol. I was lucky enough to be aboard and grabbed a couple of pics … further details on Six Bells Jn page below.

 

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk (Then use the Railtour files to find the Crewe Excursioner Tour; 28/08/95)

90139 at Wigan NW

59003 and 59101 leaving Crewe after the mini-tour, on it’s way back to Bristol TM

 

(I’ve just been searching Class 59 WCML wanderings to justify a OO gauge bargain! 🤭)

 

Funny you should say that you stumbled across class59s on the WCML.

Whilst doing research for my new build, I came across a picture of 59103  working a stone train Whatley quarry upto the old ARC site in Wolverton. So they did venture out further than the normal neck of the woods 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by porkie

[lyneux]

The leading wagon there is 17901 which was a one-off, slightly longer and had 4 hopper discharge chutes.

[jdbsg65]

Hi, do you have a code number for the lockpilot version that we will need for the non-sound fitted versions or will this be in the documentation? Thanks

[Revolution Mike B]

5 hours ago, jdbsg65 said:

Hi, do you have a code number for the lockpilot version that we will need for the non-sound fitted versions or will this be in the documentation? Thanks

We will have some news about the non sound decoders shortly 

 

Cheers

Mike B