Rail Road class 40

[Davidjsmith]

There was a grey body class 40 on the Hornby stand at DEMU show case today didn't look bad to be honest any views how it compares to the Bachmann one?I guess it's based on the lima one which wasn't bad I believe?

[96701]

It is the Lima body, but I only remembered to ask about the mechanism once I'd got back from DEMU at Burton.

Edit - it's going to be in the Railroad range.

[D6975]

The Lima 40 wasn't too bad looking apart from the cab front windows which were truly awful.

Replacing those with etched ones and fitting wire handrails etc produced a reasonable looking 40.

The mechanism and wheels were up to Lima's usual standard.

The pony truck wheels had massive flanges even by Lima standards, I once put mine on a layout with code 65 rail and it sounded like someone dragging a stick along a set of iron railings.

[ClikC]

Amazingly both the Lima 40 and the Bachmann 40 are incorrect, in completely opposite ways! However as many will testify, like many of the other Lima models. While much of it is strictly speaking incorrect, it captures the look and feel of a Class.

 

Brian Hanson of Shawplan has a fair number of Class 40 bits in various stages of development, and I feel sure that for most people, detailing the Lima/Hornby offering will produce a good representation of the class.

 

 

For those interested, the faults I pick out with the lima offering are thus;

 

Nose bonnet is too high and cab side windows undersized and positioned too high. Which when corrected Throws out the alignment of the nose corner curve and the bottom of the cab side windows with the body side windows.

 

Boiler roof panel is too long. This has thrown out the alinement and size of almost everything on the roof, but most notable it has caused the Cabs to shrink lengthwise.

 

Body sides too tall. I'm pretty sure the whole curve of the roof is slightly out (on both offerings), and overall the lima body is correct, but as we mainly view out models side on, it's a more personal gripe with me.

 

Oh, and the Radiator grill is just wrong.

 

I'm in the very slow process of attempting to build a pair of Hybrid P4 class 40's out of Lima and Bachmann body parts on a Bachmann chassis, but development of that has stalled due to work on building the layout.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Steve K]

The Lima 40 wasn't too bad looking apart from the cab front windows which were truly awful.

Replacing those with etched ones and fitting wire handrails etc produced a reasonable looking 40.

Couldn't you get a reasonable look by grafting in the cab windows from a 37?

[ClikC]

Couldn't you get a reasonable look by grafting in the cab windows from a 37?

 

But who's 37? All English electric with the classic three screen cab windows benefit from an etched window frame, plus it's much easy to buy an etch, than cutting up a donor 37. The trouble with the lima 40 is that because the bonnet is too high, it means any replacement etch make the rake of the window incorrect. That's only really seen side-on mind.

 

HTH

 

Regards

 

Matt

[James]

Couldn't you get a reasonable look by grafting in the cab windows from a 37?

 

The old way was using the Craftsman Class 37 windscreen etch as a basis - a nice result could be had I think.

 

[John M Upton]

The best combo I have found to a decent 40 without too much work was to put a Lima body shell, suitably tarted up with the Crafstman etched front windows and a decent paint job and then put it on the Bachmann chassis.

 

The Bachmann 40 body I would not touch with a bargepole. It is hideously wrong in almost every respect except the side radiator grille which bizarrely Bachmann on later batches changed to make it look a bit more correctly proportioned but in the process made wrong the only bit of it that was actually right!!

[James]

It is hideously wrong in almost every respect

 

The cabs are pretty good though - combined with the Lima body they form a good basis!

 

 

except the side radiator grille which bizarrely Bachmann on later batches changed to make it look a bit more correctly proportioned but in the process made wrong the only bit of it that was actually right!!

 

That was quite funny I thought!

[Horsetan]

Amazingly both the Lima 40 and the Bachmann 40 are incorrect, in completely opposite ways! However as many will testify, like many of the other Lima models. While much of it is strictly speaking incorrect, it captures the look and feel of a Class.

 

Brian Hanson of Shawplan has a fair number of Class 40 bits in various stages of development, and I feel sure that for most people, detailing the Lima/Hornby offering will produce a good representation of the class......

 

Just to muddy the waters further, I spoke to Brian at RailEx, and he reckoned that it was better to keep the Lima body intact rather than graft in the Bachmann cabs. I am now confused.

[James]

Just to muddy the waters further, I spoke to Brian at RailEx, and he reckoned that it was better to keep the Lima body intact rather than graft in the Bachmann cabs. I am now confused.

 

Nobody who's done the conversion seems convinced one way or the other! Best way is either to have a go or look at what other people have done and just go with what you think looks right.

[ClikC]

Just to muddy the waters further, I spoke to Brian at RailEx, and he reckoned that it was better to keep the Lima body intact rather than graft in the Bachmann cabs. I am now confused.

 

Yeah thats Brian's opinion (He thinks I'm mad for doing the cut and shut), and I can understand the thinking, it's a HELL of a lot less work. It's just because I want to push the envelope, the Mostyn guys set a good standard, but I want to go as best as I can. Even as i've done the mods you've seen, I've been thinking of ways to improve on them for next time. Good job I've got 8 to do

The 4-mm Class 40 is now very much a personal vendetta.

The Bachmann 40 body I would not touch with a bargepole. It is hideously wrong in almost every respect except the side radiator grille which bizarrely Bachmann on later batches changed to make it look a bit more correctly proportioned but in the process made wrong the only bit of it that was actually right!!

 

I'd counter that arguement. I've spent a lot of time crawling all over the Bachmann body, and if the right parts were available it would work for a fantastic model. But we are talking EXTENSIVE rebuild, to the point of it almost becoming a scratch build, the important thing is that the shape of a 40 is almost there. What ruins it is the position and sizes of certain moldings on the body. But with the exception of the nose bonnet (sitting 1-mm too low) and the curve of the roof being slightly too shallow (Same issue on Lima), everything else is pretty spot on dimension wise.

 

 

I may have to do one, just to prove it can be done.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Pete Piszczek]

The Bachmann 40 body I would not touch with a bargepole. It is hideously wrong in almost every respect except the side radiator grille which bizarrely Bachmann on later batches changed to make it look a bit more correctly proportioned but in the process made wrong the only bit of it that was actually right!!

 

 

Some amusing shots of the Bachmann folly here:

 

http://ardleybridge....et/c763357.html

 

I'm going to do the Bachmann cab / Lima body trick at some point, I have most of the bits, just need some motivation. And maybe Brian getting around to putting a price list out of all the latest etches for those of us who can't make the shows...

 

Of yeah, and this explains things...

 

 

[Horsetan]

......The 4-mm Class 40 is now very much a personal vendetta.....

 

Any scope for pleading for the resurrection of the MOK etched kit for the Class 40? Or was that also wrong?

 

....we are talking EXTENSIVE rebuild, to the point of it almost becoming a scratch build....

 

I've looked at my demonstration hack, and come to much the same conclusion. I did buy a small consignment of Class 40 bits from Brian, though.... (and I'd like to see what, if anything, he might do for the Prototype Deltic before I start seriously hacking into my Dapol plastic kit....)

[m0rris]

Am I the only one sensing that a new 40 from someone such as Heljan/vitrains could go down a treat (it says alot about the Bachmann model that the Lima model is considered better than it!)?

 

m0rris

[craigwelsh]

Am I the only one sensing that a new 40 from someone such as Heljan/vitrains could go down a treat (it says alot about the Bachmann model that the Lima model is considered better than it!)?

 

m0rris

Bachmann could do a 37 on it themselves, the 40 came from the era of the original attempt at the 37 rather than the much better recent attempts. A new attempt at the body from Bachmann would probably beat Heljan anyway!

[ClikC]

Any scope for pleading for the resurrection of the MOK etched kit for the Class 40? Or was that also wrong?

 

I've looked at my demonstration hack, and come to much the same conclusion. I did buy a small consignment of Class 40 bits from Brian, though.... (and I'd like to see what, if anything, he might do for the Prototype Deltic before I start seriously hacking into my Dapol plastic kit....)

 

 

The MOK kit wasn't perfect IMO, this is judging by the Monty Wells one built in MRJ 0. I know the kit has given Brian lots of inspiration for bits, as he sent me a rather large picture of the bogie etch from the unbuilt kit he has. I'd say there is a serious case for resin noses/ cabs, which I might get around to doing, but a decent multi layer etch for the crew corridor connection doors is needed first.

 

If alternative resin cabs were available and an decent etched underframe kit for full springing and prototypical 1Co-Co1 drive, then I would have not reason to buy a Bachmann model at all, upgrading the Hornby/Lima body with Shawplan bits would be fine (and practically a kit).

 

What bits did you get out of Brian? I twisted his arm enough to land myself some test etches for the radiator louvres (Lovely work, I really need to make up the ones I have), but he wants to improve the design, and perhaps make them working with a small servo. Needless to say I support that Idea whole heartedly, despite knowing full well that I'll only end up covering them all up with a frost grill anyway!

 

 

 

Bachmann could do a 37 on it themselves, the 40 came from the era of the original attempt at the 37 rather than the much better recent attempts. A new attempt at the body from Bachmann would probably beat Heljan anyway!

 

Brian Hanson assures me that he questioned a couple of Bachmann reps, and they said unequivocally that they had no plans to update the 40. But I agree that i'd rather not have Heljan do one. I think Hornby are missing out by not doing what they did with the Class 50 to the old Lima 40, I have plans for 8 at the moment (and i keep joking that I want to do all 200...)

 

It's a shame really, as I think with the Bachmann 40 it's another one of those 'Waynes World 2' cases. If they improved it, they would sell like hot cakes. But because it's got so many faults, I'm sure it puts people off buying them.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Pete Piszczek]

It's a shame really, as I think with the Bachmann 40 it's another one of those 'Waynes World 2' cases. If they improved it, they would sell like hot cakes. But because it's got so many faults, I'm sure it puts people off buying them.

 

I suspect Bachmann sell enough to those that aren't that picky to keep them turning over. Unfortunately.

 

Seems to be lots of money about for special editions of odd ball one off or small class locomotives. Seems we will be done with most of those in another year or two.

 

You'd think a "special edition" 4mm Class 40, with JLTRT detail, would sell scads. Laser cut windows so you could see the full cab would be a given. Sell it in all three flavors- disk, split, and center. Make sure it's easily EM/P4'able. Include in the instructions a caveat that if you have train set curves, you should use your thumb and forefinger to break off the offending detail...

 

 

 

[Scottish Modeller]

I suspect Bachmann sell enough to those that aren't that picky to keep them turning over. Unfortunately.

 

Seems to be lots of money about for special editions of odd ball one off or small class locomotives. Seems we will be done with most of those in another year or two.

 

You'd think a "special edition" 4mm Class 40, with JLTRT detail, would sell scads. Laser cut windows so you could see the full cab would be a given. Sell it in all three flavors- disk, split, and center. Make sure it's easily EM/P4'able. Include in the instructions a caveat that if you have train set curves, you should use your thumb and forefinger to break off the offending detail...

 

Hi Pete,

 

Dreaming again!

 

I wish we could just have all those proper features on a model that runs reliably.....

 

Me?

 

I was thinking combined Limby/Bachmann with resin cabs and every Extreme Etching that we can convince Brian to do.

 

Yes - it would be a lot of work!

 

But the end result...........

[James]

every Extreme Etching that we can convince Brian to do.

 

I have a full set of body etchings, so there's not much left to convince him on!

 

The real omission at the moment is a set of replacement axle boxes and springs.

[Bob Reid]

I have a full set of body etchings, so there's not much left to convince him on!

 

The real omission at the moment is a set of replacement axle boxes and springs.

 

Any chance of a view of what you get with the etchings James?

 

ta...

[James]

Any chance of a view of what you get with the etchings James?

 

The only thing is that they are very much pre-production so they may have changed by now!

[Bob Reid]

The only thing is that they are very much pre-production so they may have changed by now!

 

Thanks James - It would've been good to see at least where he was heading with it.

[Horsetan]

.....What bits did you get out of Brian? I twisted his arm enough to land myself some test etches for the radiator louvres (Lovely work, I really need to make up the ones I have), but he wants to improve the design, and perhaps make them working with a small servo. Needless to say I support that Idea whole heartedly, despite knowing full well that I'll only end up covering them all up with a frost grill anyway!....

 

The new-generation windscreen etches, plus grilles, plus boiler port details. Cantrail grilles not available yet .

 

New resin cabs sound like a great idea, but would need a LOT of prep work to get all those curves right.

 

I would want to have the tiny holes that Bachmann has in its noses, as this allows me to swap the headcode discs between "folded" and "unfolded" depending on class of train hauled.

 

Next step: headcode character sets that can be rolled....

[James]

Cantrail grilles not available yet .

 

I have some