Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[ProjectRedcar]

On 18/07/2022 at 19:11, rob D2 said:

But yet you can't get a HST in original colours for love nor money 

Annoyingly, they're doing one in TT:120. Whether it's up to current spec, I haven't looked
Either way, doesn't help

Baffles me why Hornby haven't done a full fat original HST this time around...and also baffles me why InterCity is relegated to the Railroad range. Doesn't make much sense

[Kelly]

1 hour ago, ProjectRedcar said:

Annoyingly, they're doing one in TT:120. Whether it's up to current spec, I haven't looked
Either way, doesn't help

Baffles me why Hornby haven't done a full fat original HST this time around...and also baffles me why InterCity is relegated to the Railroad range. Doesn't make much sense

 

I'm sure eventually they'll get around to certain liveries, but the 'flashier' liveries are probably the focus i guess. Theres been a lot of the special/one off liveries the past couple of years for a number of units though, so maybe that is their current focus. Unfortuately with their state of finances, they are more than ever likely to cater to the collector market than the modeller market I expect, which means BG/IC are last on the list if they're doing that. Accurascale and others are much more modeller focused (being modellers themselves) and so they are likely to do the likes of BG etc first as they'll know there'll be demand.

[Kelly]

10 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

There is that. Although Revolution doing them in N does mean at least somebody knows they exist!

 

I've heard it said from a number of sources that E/DMUs can be difficult sellers unless they're something iconic (such as APT, APT-e, 800, HST etc) and the more hum drum types are often difficult sellers, especially after the first or second batches. How many people are buying Bachmann 4CEPS at near £400 each I wonder? the EPBs and 350s were getting heavily discounted, as were the 2Bil and 2Hal after the initial batches. So a 4/5 car Electrostar is going to be a difficult proposition I think. Maybe we'll see a 4mm one eventually, but for now we'll just have to be a touich jealous our 2mm friends get them (and the 319, etc). Who knows though, there could well be one in the works somewhere (note, I am not saying I know this for sure, just wishful thinking!).

[Delta_Who]

7 minutes ago, Kelly said:

 

I've heard it said from a number of sources that E/DMUs can be difficult sellers unless they're something iconic (such as APT, APT-e, 800, HST etc) and the more hum drum types are often difficult sellers, especially after the first or second batches. How many people are buying Bachmann 4CEPS at near £400 each I wonder? the EPBs and 350s were getting heavily discounted, as were the 2Bil and 2Hal after the initial batches. So a 4/5 car Electrostar is going to be a difficult proposition I think. Maybe we'll see a 4mm one eventually, but for now we'll just have to be a touich jealous our 2mm friends get them (and the 319, etc). Who knows though, there could well be one in the works somewhere (note, I am not saying I know this for sure, just wishful thinking!).

 

They would be difficult in terms of tooling and labour... for sure. But I think if any EMU that would have a chance at selling like hotcakes... it's a properly tooled Electrostar. Their modern-day dominance is too large to ignore.

[Kelly]

24 minutes ago, Delta_Who said:

 

They would be difficult in terms of tooling and labour... for sure. But I think if any EMU that would have a chance at selling like hotcakes... it's a properly tooled Electrostar. Their modern-day dominance is too large to ignore.

 

They also sadly are rather dull, like a lot of units sadly. Theres a reason things like the HST and APT get done.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Kelly said:

 

I've heard it said from a number of sources that E/DMUs can be difficult sellers unless they're something iconic (such as APT, APT-e, 800, HST etc) and the more hum drum types are often difficult sellers, especially after the first or second batches. How many people are buying Bachmann 4CEPS at near £400 each I wonder? the EPBs and 350s were getting heavily discounted, as were the 2Bil and 2Hal after the initial batches. So a 4/5 car Electrostar is going to be a difficult proposition I think. Maybe we'll see a 4mm one eventually, but for now we'll just have to be a touich jealous our 2mm friends get them (and the 319, etc). Who knows though, there could well be one in the works somewhere (note, I am not saying I know this for sure, just wishful thinking!).

Little black 0-6-0’s are no different yet they keep jobbing them out, and they keep filling up the bargain bins.

 

i cannot imagine retooling something made less than 20 years ago is a golden unicorn either, or going head to head with someone else.

 

The upfront tooling cost of a unit is higher no question, but so is the revenue and return. But tooling 2 or 3 locos for the same cost I suspect is a route to a fast buck, the last few years has been quick buck unicorn hunting for sure.

 

if the big money goes into making the same old guff as before but in 3mm, there is chance that EMUs may get some attention in OO if that market slows in investment from the big boys.

imo 3mm is going to be a hard sell, everyones interested as its new. But once the reality hits.. your going to need a grand in track, then theres the DCC cost, those extra 4 coaches you can now add is £120 extra per train etc etc people are going to think again… its going to cost you a lot in the short term to build up a 3mm collection, just as were going into a long recession.

 

I suspect many initial customers will put their 3mm sets in the garage after a few loops… 3mm is nice, and a nice idea, so was Betamax Videos and Polaroid cameras. Long term it will find a gap probably with newer hobby entrants, but at expense of being a OO customer… it needs to bring something new to the table, but it isnt.. theres no “I must have” about it beyond being 3mm.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by adb968008

[Pete the Elaner]

5 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

 

They would be difficult in terms of tooling and labour... for sure. But I think if any EMU that would have a chance at selling like hotcakes... it's a properly tooled Electrostar. Their modern-day dominance is too large to ignore.

 

I think the Mk3 family of EMUs would do better:

For a start they were introduced in the 80s & many are still running.

317s worked on the Bedpan, WCML, GE & ECML.

318s around Glasgow.

319s on Thameslink, but now also on the southern end of the WCML & also around Manchester. Some have been converted to diesel/bi-mode & appear elsewhere, like south Wales.

320s on (Stansted duties?).

321s on the GE, WCML & around Leeds.

322s around Glasgow.

317's & 321s also had 3rd rail cousins too.

 

But I am still not sure a manufacturer will take them on..

 

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I think the Mk3 family of EMUs would do better:

For a start they were introduced in the 80s & many are still running.

317s worked on the Bedpan, WCML, GE & ECML.

318s around Glasgow.

319s on Thameslink, but now also on the southern end of the WCML & also around Manchester. Some have been converted to diesel/bi-mode & appear elsewhere, like south Wales.

320s on (Stansted duties?).

321s on the GE, WCML & around Leeds.

322s around Glasgow.

317's & 321s also had 3rd rail cousins too.

 

But I am still not sure a manufacturer will take them on..

 

A well thought tooling would give all the above and 455/456 and 150/0, 150/1 and 150/2

 

Would need a big upfront investment, but the market would be theirs for decades.

[Pete the Elaner]

15 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

A well thought tooling would give all the above and 455/456 and 150/0, 150/1 and 150/2

 

Would need a big upfront investment, but the market would be theirs for decades.

 

I forgot about the 150's sharing the bodyshell. Bachmann already make those.

[adb968008]

Bratchell Models has made living out of exactly that combination, its expensive and its a kit, so a rtr one would imo do better.

[JackB95]

59 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I think the Mk3 family of EMUs would do better:

For a start they were introduced in the 80s & many are still running.

317s worked on the Bedpan, WCML, GE & ECML.

318s around Glasgow.

319s on Thameslink, but now also on the southern end of the WCML & also around Manchester. Some have been converted to diesel/bi-mode & appear elsewhere, like south Wales.

320s on (Stansted duties?).

321s on the GE, WCML & around Leeds.

322s around Glasgow.

317's & 321s also had 3rd rail cousins too.

 

But I am still not sure a manufacturer will take them on..

 

 

Couldn't agree more. A shared bodywork design with minor alterations across the fleet, mostly cab design differences. It's a no brainer. Anyone won the Postcode Lottery recently?

[rob D2]

I'm not sure who the target audience is for TT. I'd have to sell all my OO stuff to get some - at a loss - to try something new, something i can't really consider .

 

Not many people have the disposable in come right now to start afresh . And anyway it's not quite small enough for me to fit full length trains on my box room and i'd already ruled out N gauge due lack of sufficient stock 

[Delta_Who]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I'm not sure who the target audience is for TT. I'd have to sell all my OO stuff to get some - at a loss - to try something new, something i can't really consider .

 

Not many people have the disposable in come right now to start afresh . And anyway it's not quite small enough for me to fit full length trains on my box room and i'd already ruled out N gauge due lack of sufficient stock 

 

I mean, changing scale does not mean you're forced to press the nuclear button. There are plenty of newcomers who would welcome something a bit more size/detail convenient, and there are some seasoned modellers who want more mainline but cannot increase the size of their house (pesty planning control won't let us expand our attics into the street. So what if cantilevered structures are a threat to public safety!)

[Kelly]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I'm not sure who the target audience is for TT. I'd have to sell all my OO stuff to get some - at a loss - to try something new, something i can't really consider .

 

Not many people have the disposable in come right now to start afresh . And anyway it's not quite small enough for me to fit full length trains on my box room and i'd already ruled out N gauge due lack of sufficient stock 

 

I reckon someone starting a project might give it a thought if they are interested in the initial range of options. Plus someone thinking of a new project when others have been n or oo might give it some thought.

 

For it to succeed I think the smaller suppliers need to get on board, if theres some kits and other bits available it will make it much easier to justify getting into the scale. Otherwise a lot of scratchbuilding and adapting continental buildings to look british.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Kelly said:

 

I reckon someone starting a project might give it a thought if they are interested in the initial range of options. Plus someone thinking of a new project when others have been n or oo might give it some thought.

 

For it to succeed I think the smaller suppliers need to get on board, if theres some kits and other bits available it will make it much easier to justify getting into the scale. Otherwise a lot of scratchbuilding and adapting continental buildings to look british.

I think to succeed it needs innovation, and think it will come from the younger generation.

 

So 3D kits is a start.

But the range needs to reflect that generational taste.

I think Hornbys started out in it, but their danger of it being too traditional.

Rather than MGRs they had a chance to go modern and missed it.

A Modern EMU would have would have drawn eyes, especially if it was a OO gauge gap.

 

Its lacking the wow… if it had come with an app based controller, in cab camera, wifi controlled… that would have turned heads.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by adb968008

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, JackB95 said:

 

Couldn't agree more. A shared bodywork design with minor alterations across the fleet, mostly cab design differences. It's a no brainer. 

 

One of those things that a certain Irish based outfit would be good at.

[Chris116]

The Tri-ang TT range had smaller suppliers doing track, wagons and loco kits. Peco Wonderful Wagons, Gem track and loco body kits, K's and maybe others did full loco kits and Biltezzi did their range of building kits in 3mm as well as 4mm. All that support in the end did not count for anything although some of it remained available long after Tri-ang had quit TT.

[adb968008]

56 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

One of those things that a certain Irish based outfit would be good at.

Maybe but their Facebook page was quite funny yesterday…

i’m not convinced TT is on their list.

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Maybe but their Facebook page was quite funny yesterday…

i’m not convinced TT is on their list.

 

 I was referring to the Electrostar, not TT.....

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

 I was referring to the Electrostar, not TT.....

Ah, but the other ones are doing that, allegedly, since 2017, so 2 more years to go.

Edited October 11, 2022 by adb968008

[rob D2]

4 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

 

I mean, changing scale does not mean you're forced to press the nuclear button. There are plenty of newcomers who would welcome something a bit more size/detail convenient, and there are some seasoned modellers who want more mainline but cannot increase the size of their house (pesty planning control won't let us expand our attics into the street. So what if cantilevered structures are a threat to public safety!)

Which is 180 degrees from me - I’d have to press the nuclear button as can’t afford both .

 

So they say N gauge ( which must be one of the two most popular scales after OO) is 10 % of the market and the modellers often claim they are missed out for various things becuase of its low sales popularity - so they must be gambling TT will be bigger than N ?

[APT Fan]

Hi,

Has anybody bought 'R30082 Hornby Class 56 Diesel Locomotive number 56 086'?

 

Any good?

[rob D2]

Ok, ok, hold my beer…

they are doing a TT class 50 

[spamcan61]

17 hours ago, rob D2 said:

 

So they say N gauge ( which must be one of the two most popular scales after OO) is 10 % of the market and the modellers often claim they are missed out for various things becuase of its low sales popularity - so they must be gambling TT will be bigger than N ?

They're gambling that more or less 100% of the UK  TT market and some % of overseas sales will be more profitable for them than whatever N gauge market share they could wrestle from Bachmann + Dapol.

Edited October 12, 2022 by spamcan61

[atherton]

10 hours ago, APT Fan said:

Hi,

Has anybody bought 'R30082 Hornby Class 56 Diesel Locomotive number 56 086'?

 

Any good?

No but I have bought the earlier 56047. I hate to say it but ordered direct from Hornby and it arrived here in NZ 10 days later, which beats the average by 4 days! Nice model, heavy runs smoothly, a little bit fast for my liking and for a freight loco even at low speed settings on the controller. It still has the flaws of the earlier detailed models in that the scavenger fans are sunken when they should be flush, but it looks like a 56 and sits well  my other 15 grids. Love the all blue version. Didn't get 086 as I already have one renumbered to that - murphys law.