Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[vikingsmb]

13 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Do you have a go at car manufacturers for the same thing?

It's the way tech is going - easier to build the unit as a complete unit rather than lots of smaller bits.

Then just replace the whole thing.

no 

[vikingsmb]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

You can buy replacement motors for those sealed units.

 

Places like Lendons sell railroad bogies complete very cheap too anyway.

lendons are just up the road from me and are brilliant, BTW, if you are buying spares off them, drop them a email first pls as they can get it ready if you are picking it up

[newbryford]

13 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Do you have a go at car manufacturers for the same thing?

It's the way tech is going - easier to build the unit as a complete unit rather than lots of smaller bits.

Then just replace the whole thing.

 

Same goes for washing machines etc.

Less and less is becoming economically repairable - cheaper to buy a new one.

 

And it also reduces the need to keep spares for the myriad variants of models over the years.

[vikingsmb]

13 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Same goes for washing machines etc.

Less and less is becoming economically repairable - cheaper to buy a new one.

 

And it also reduces the need to keep spares for the myriad variants of models over the years.

and it increases landfill etc, 

[newbryford]

21 minutes ago, vikingsmb said:

and it increases landfill etc, 

 

Yes it does.

But all being driven by the consumer drive to make things cheaper to buy

 

I priced up some spare parts for a washing machine last year.

I could get them, but they were more almost as expensive as a new machine.

 

Yes - I consider myself to have the ability to carry out the repair, but how many people don't these days?

But:

As it is, my own (albeit free) spare time is in limited supply, so it made more sense to buy a new machine to make better use of my own resources.

(AFAIIA, the machine didn't go to landfill. I left it at the end of the drive and a magical fairy with a Transit flatbed took it away the following day)

 

I also had to consider the possibility that even once the machine was repaired, how long would it last before something else failed.

 

Back OT, I can't remember the last time I had a model railway motor that needed replacement brushes.

Maybe I don't run them enough!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by newbryford

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

 

I also had to consider the possibility that even once the machine was repaired, how long would it last before something else failed.

 

Back OT, I can't remember the last time I had a model railway motor that needed replacement brushes.

Maybe I don't run them enough!

 

Oddly my washing machine failed with worn brushes, despite being brushless.

 

I had a guy come out dismantle it, and behind that big white facade is something not dissimilar to an oversize model railway motor.

 

he replaced the brushes, despite still being brushless.

[TomScrut]

On 30/05/2023 at 09:00, adb968008 said:

Oddly my washing machine failed with worn brushes, despite being brushless.

 

I had a guy come out dismantle it, and behind that big white facade is something not dissimilar to an oversize model railway motor.

 

he replaced the brushes, despite still being brushless.

 

I replaced the brushes in our washing machine during lockdown for about £8.

 

Unfortunately my partner was already looking online at new ones so it was already doomed 😂

[ColinB]

There is nothing wrong with using sealed motors, the bigger issue is not being able to get replacements. Then there is the issue of quality, I bought 3 Pendolino 5 pole motors to replace 3 pole motors in my locos, when I got them they seemed jammed. Took one apart to find the clip that hold the armature in was not clipped in properly and had fell away jamming the motor. Two out of the three had this issue. There again if you go to EBay, in China they are less than $1 ( as it is China) each, so what do you expect.  I suppose I could have sent them back, but probably there weren't 3 more. You can fix the sealed motors if you are careful but generally it is not worth doing.

[andyman7]

I recently acquired a box of locos and loco bits. There was a dead Hornby 0-4-0 in there, motor was a failure. I took it apart (even though it is a sealed unit!) to reveal dewired armature segments due to armature failure. Replacement ordered but I have kept the front part of the motor as it includes the supposedly non-replaceable brush assembly, which I can keep in reserve in case I get one of these that needs its brushes replaced...! 

Edited June 3, 2023 by andyman7

[scouse889]

On 28/05/2023 at 07:53, Great Waterton said:

I'll stop short at the Dapol 150/2 as that looked terrible even when it came out. 😂

 

So terrible that, IIRC, someone produced a conversion kit for it, to convert it into a 150/2....!

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, scouse889 said:

 

So terrible that, IIRC, someone produced a conversion kit for it, to convert it into a 150/2....!

There was a 150/1 conversion kit for it too… it was easier than converting it into a 150/2 

:-)

 

shocker of a model… glued in wafer thin plastic chassis, and an “n” shaped dome of metal to sit over the 4 wheel motor bogie, that was self contained without pickups to the other wheels… my guess is this was where Hornby got inspiration for its Railroad motor from.

Edited July 10, 2023 by adb968008

[GordonC]

4 hours ago, scouse889 said:

 

So terrible that, IIRC, someone produced a conversion kit for it, to convert it into a 150/2....!

 

I'm surprised anything could save it, a truly awful model from all angles!!

[Great Waterton]

I have a soft spot for my Dapol 150/1 conversion.

 😂

 

[Halvarras]

Kernow have just posted pics (not there Friday) of the revamped Hornby Class 110 DMU - 2-car only so far, although both this and the 3-car are showing as in stock now:

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/74227/R30171-Hornby-Railroad-Plus-Class-110-2-Car-DMU-Train-Pack

 

Perhaps 'revamped' is overstating it as, apart from the now customary neat decoration and, no doubt, 5-pole version of the 'pancake' motor bogie, I can detect no changes over previous releases - those odd bodyside crease lines remain, as do the large couplings. I'm sure I won't be the only one not surprised by this...... Also it's labelled 'Railroad Plus' but I can't see the 'Plus' aspect here, unless........no, VFM is a touchy and frowned-upon subject so best not go there 🤐!

 

IIRC this model first appeared in 1980, and at the time was an impressive effort by Hornby - the tooling of three different bodyshells with a decent attempt at flush glazing certainly showed up the inadequacies of Lima's Class 117. The Class 110 was one of the better-looking 1st Gen DMU types without a doubt, but unfortunately its narrow area of operation restricted the appeal of the model for many, including me - as a WR modeller I had much more fun with the Lima 117  (plus razor saw, files, scalpel, filler and plasticard!)

 

So 43 years later, with no other model of the type available, is this a welcome return, worthy of dusting off those detailing skills for? A pity that getting rid of those crease lines would lead to a full repaint, of the sides at least, rendering that neat decoration null and void......

[meatloaf]

39 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

Kernow have just posted pics (not there Friday) of the revamped Hornby Class 110 DMU - 2-car only so far, although both this and the 3-car are showing as in stock now:

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/74227/R30171-Hornby-Railroad-Plus-Class-110-2-Car-DMU-Train-Pack

 

Perhaps 'revamped' is overstating it as, apart from the now customary neat decoration and, no doubt, 5-pole version of the 'pancake' motor bogie, I can detect no changes over previous releases - those odd bodyside crease lines remain, as do the large couplings. I'm sure I won't be the only one not surprised by this...... Also it's labelled 'Railroad Plus' but I can't see the 'Plus' aspect here, unless........no, VFM is a touchy and frowned-upon subject so best not go there 🤐!

 

IIRC this model first appeared in 1980, and at the time was an impressive effort by Hornby - the tooling of three different bodyshells with a decent attempt at flush glazing certainly showed up the inadequacies of Lima's Class 117. The Class 110 was one of the better-looking 1st Gen DMU types without a doubt, but unfortunately its narrow area of operation restricted the appeal of the model for many, including me - as a WR modeller I had much more fun with the Lima 117  (plus razor saw, files, scalpel, filler and plasticard!)

 

So 43 years later, with no other model of the type available, is this a welcome return, worthy of dusting off those detailing skills for? A pity that getting rid of those crease lines would lead to a full repaint, of the sides at least, rendering that neat decoration null and void......

Ive seen the 3 car in stock at rails.

 

I was keen to get one but the big chunky couplers are off putting, plus at the price they are i can get better alternatives at similar prices.

 

For not much more than the price of the 2 car unit i can get a blue / grey class 108 from TMC ( £149 ). And for the 3 car unit i can get a 3 car class 117 from kernow for £200 ( around £30 more than the Hornby )

 

 

[Halvarras]

I was tempted by TMC's Class 108 as it's a WR set IIRC. But so far I've held out cuz funds went elsewhere....!

 

I've just discovered that these are not the first Chinese-produced Class 110s so the neat decoration and 5-pole motor aren't new. Which makes the VFM conundrum even more acute...... I also picked up on a running issue with these models, apparently related to the bogie pivot arrangement. I'm sure many will have encountered 'sticky bogie syndrome' on Hornby's 'pancake'........er, ringfield motored diesels* - at both ends, as the trailing bogie is pivoted in the same manner. These sometimes require attention with a curved or round file around the curved bearing surfaces either end of the chassis openings to enable the bogie frame to swivel freely, up and down as well as side to side. On these DMUs all bogies pivot this way so there is a much higher chance of a sticky bogie - especially those under the lighter unpowered vehicles - derailing on points or not coping with track imperfections. I suspect it will be something to watch for on these new releases too, as this arrangement seems to have persisted - unfortunately.

 

*Lima likewise

[Halvarras]

The next one from Hornby I'm keen to get a good look at is the two-tone green Class 47 D1683, "due Spring 2024". I don't need another Brush Type 4 but I get all emotional about two-tone green ones - yeah I know, sad innit 🤪 ?! Obviously it's the ex-Lima model so I know exactly what to expect, but it's the quality of the livery application and whether they have used the version of the tooling without headlights which I'm keen to assess (the illustration shows headlights but this doesn't mean the actual model will; I certainly hope not). The later underframe detail remains incorrect for early versions (I've grafted Hornby's own '47' boxes on to fix this, including 47484 just last year) but a bigger issue for D1683 is that it wasn't dual-braked from new so shouldn't have the Serck roof shutters - basically Hornby has selected the wrong running number for this model. D1666-81 or D1807-on would have circumvented this; better still would be to then narrow it down further to one fitted with the ( 'Universal'?) train heating boiler compartment grille depicted on the model, although most of the models ever produced from this tooling have been wrong in that regard. Thing is, I still have a pair of A1 Models etched original 3-part fixed roof grilles looking for a purpose, so, y'know, maybe.....

[scouse889]

6 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 I also picked up on a running issue with these models, apparently related to the bogie pivot arrangement. I'm sure many will have encountered 'sticky bogie syndrome' on Hornby's 'pancake'........er, ringfield motored diesels* - at both ends, as the trailing bogie is pivoted in the same manner. These sometimes require attention with a curved or round file around the curved bearing surfaces either end of the chassis openings to enable the bogie frame to swivel freely, up and down as well as side to side. On these DMUs all bogies pivot this way so there is a much higher chance of a sticky bogie - especially those under the lighter unpowered vehicles - derailing on points or not coping with track imperfections. I suspect it will be something to watch for on these new releases too, as this arrangement seems to have persisted - unfortunately.

Can anyone confirm whether the new 110s have the ring field motor or if they have been upgraded to the so called Limby motor bogie. I hope so, the running of the latter is better than the former in my experience and Hornby did upgrade some of their own models (90, 91 and 92, for example) to this new bogie rather than persisting with the ringfield in them - granted these originally part of the main range rather than Railroad.

Was rather hoping to see an upgrade to NEM pockets on these too, rather than the fixed tension locks.

The decoration looks nice though.

[andyman7]

27 minutes ago, scouse889 said:

Can anyone confirm whether the new 110s have the ring field motor or if they have been upgraded to the so called Limby motor bogie. I hope so, the running of the latter is better than the former in my experience and Hornby did upgrade some of their own models (90, 91 and 92, for example) to this new bogie rather than persisting with the ringfield in them - granted these originally part of the main range rather than Railroad.

Was rather hoping to see an upgrade to NEM pockets on these too, rather than the fixed tension locks.

The decoration looks nice though.

I'd be very surprised if the new 110 has a Ringfield motor for the simple reason that Hornby stopped using it over 15 years ago, even in China made models, and all 'DCC ready' models have the later mechanisms. I'm assuming a version of the mechanism used in the class 101 and class 121 railcars has been used.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by andyman7

[Halvarras]

12 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I'd be very surprised if the new 110 has a Ringfield motor for the simple reason that Hornby stopped using it over 15 years ago, even in China made models, and all 'DCC ready' models have the later mechanisms. I'm assuming a version of the mechanism used in the class 101 and class 121 railcars has been used.

 

 

Prepare to be very surprised, if the thickness of the wheel rims in Kernow's pictures are a guide to the motor bogie installed, as they definitely look Ringfield to me and definitely not the same as on the Class 121s shown nearby. Why? Think about it - the motor bogie frame is used throughout the train, the trailing bogies being essentially 'pivotless' unlike the ex-Lima DMUs; if the '110' were to be converted to use the Limby power and trailing bogies a wholesale retool of all three '110' underframes would be necessary.

 

Last year I bought a mint 2004 upgraded Hornby Hymek with the Chinese Ringfield motor bogie and I'm very impressed with the way it runs - way better that the 1970s/80s original. I bought it for nostalgia's sake but I've had to find a functional purpose for it! So use of the Ringfield type in the '110' won't be a bad thing in my view.

[andyman7]

44 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

Prepare to be very surprised, if the thickness of the wheel rims in Kernow's pictures are a guide to the motor bogie installed, as they definitely look Ringfield to me and definitely not the same as on the Class 121s shown nearby. Why? Think about it - the motor bogie frame is used throughout the train, the trailing bogies being essentially 'pivotless' unlike the ex-Lima DMUs; if the '110' were to be converted to use the Limby power and trailing bogies a wholesale retool of all three '110' underframes would be necessary.

 

Last year I bought a mint 2004 upgraded Hornby Hymek with the Chinese Ringfield motor bogie and I'm very impressed with the way it runs - way better that the 1970s/80s original. I bought it for nostalgia's sake but I've had to find a functional purpose for it! So use of the Ringfield type in the '110' won't be a bad thing in my view.

I agree that they're not the same as the 101/121, but they're also not identical to the older Chinese or Margate ones either.  My guess is that original bogie mouldings are used but with a revised worm driven mech using a sealed motor that 'clips' into the frame. There's only one thing for it, someone's going to have to buy one 🙂

Merry Christmas!

[scottrains29]

I suspect it will be a standard limby motor bogie.

Hornby seem to want to standardise the Railroad mechanisms. They even recently removed the superior flywheel-motor, twin bogie drive mechanism from the recent class 67 releases and redesigned it to take the inferior Limby motor bogie.

 

As for the 110, the Hornby website states it's a 5 pole skew wound motor. The last ringfield motors were 5 pole but they wouldn't be skew wound.

 

Unfortunately, It doesn't look like Hornby have improved the model much. Many of the older models, especially ex Lima DMUs eg the 156 could be greatly improved with working lights/better underframe for minimal effort from Hornby. It would then help justify the prices Hornby are asking.

 

 

[Great Waterton]

I'm a bit disappointed with this "new" 110 release because I've been looking forward to the blue and grey one. I'm a big fan of these older "models" and Railroad releases as previously mentioned but I would've hoped this one would have been nearer the £110 mark.

 

The decoration looks lovely (and in fact every recent Railroad / ex Lima release I've seen and bought have had the colours absolutely spot on, better than the main range!) but for that kind of money a simple set of working head and tail lamps could've been supplied. I appreciate this would mean altering the tooling slightly but even so... I don't run DCC so all the fancy stuff is lost on me but crikey, even some grain of wheat bulbs like the old 125s had would have been a start! 

[scouse889]

20 minutes ago, Great Waterton said:

I'm a bit disappointed with this "new" 110 release because I've been looking forward to the blue and grey one. I'm a big fan of these older "models" and Railroad releases as previously mentioned but I would've hoped this one would have been nearer the £110 mark.

If you wait to next December it will probably be in one of the big box shifters advent calendars for 50% off RRP.

We should also know the answer to the motor bogie question by then.

That’s my plan!

[Great Waterton]

6 hours ago, scouse889 said:

If you wait to next December it will probably be in one of the big box shifters advent calendars for 50% off RRP.

We should also know the answer to the motor bogie question by then.

That’s my plan!

 

They were pretty much my exact words to my Father two days ago. 🤣