Poll: GWR Pannier Tanks; time for a modern spec OO loco.

[JimC]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

there are no savings to be had from a stock of mechs already to hand, and another 3,000 mechs will have to be made. 

 

All perfectly true, but hopefully there is a saving on the design side because you can start with a known good design of chassis with, hopefully, the bugs ironed out and all the bought in components identified.

[Fair Oak Junction]

I've seen a couple of photos of 1854 saddle tanks at Worcester on various trains, but were any actually allocated there?

[Miss Prism]

30 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I've seen a couple of photos of 1854 saddle tanks at Worcester on various trains, but were any actually allocated there?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/170160-poll-gwr-pannier-tanks-time-for-a-modern-spec-oo-loco/?do=findComment&comment=5197408

 

(that's for 1921)

 

also, https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2015/06/worcester-1937-1965.html

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Looks like one in 1921? But might have been rebuilt by then.

I can't actually find any of the photos I saw before so maybe I was wrong.

Oh well, not the end of the world 🙂

Edited December 6, 2023 by Fair Oak Junction

[Siberian Snooper]

I had a look at the AG loco kit list this morning,  there's been no change since I looked in November, still 1 of each, for 850 and 1076 ST and PT.

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Well my email proved fruitful as I was able to procure a 850ST kit, so at least one was in stock last week.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Fair Oak Junction

[The Stationmaster]

On 24/11/2023 at 08:41, Miss Prism said:

I understand that blue-route panniers weren't allowed into Helston, and could only work to Nancegollan?

 

 

Sorry to come late to the party on this but a bit of delving through official sources gives the following information -

 

The Helston Branch was shown as  being in the 'Uncoloured' category for RA on the official GWR RA map published in 1931.  

 

As at 1949 the relaxations were as follows  -

Yellow 45XX, 55XX, 4-4-0 Earl Class specially authorised

Blue 43Xx, 51XX Not permitted between Nancegollan and Helston.  

 

One GWR/WR document amended up to April 1957 still shows the branch as Uncoloured.  

Restrictions published in late 1957 are exactly the same as those published in 1949 except that the 'Earl Class' has been changed to 90XX.  

57XX, by then 'Yellow' of course, are not listed as authorised.

 

As at June 1963 the whole branch was shown as Blue but the only class authorised was D63XX  - which were Yellow RA (steam had of course effectively ended in most of Cornwall by then),    Either some bridgeworks had taken place OR the 1963 published classification of the route was erroneous - alas I have no amendments to that document which might clarify if it was erroneous or not.

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Sorry to come late to the party on this but a bit of delving through official sources gives the following information -

 

The Helston Branch was shown as  being in the 'Uncoloured' category for RA on the official GWR RA map published in 1931.  

 

As at 1949 the relaxations were as follows  -

Yellow 45XX, 55XX, 4-4-0 Earl Class specially authorised

Blue 43Xx, 51XX Not permitted between Nancegollan and Helston.  

 

One GWR/WR document amended up to April 1957 still shows the branch as Uncoloured.  

Restrictions published in late 1957 are exactly the same as those published in 1949 except that the 'Earl Class' has been changed to 90XX.  

57XX, by then 'Yellow' of course, are not listed as authorised.

 

As at June 1963 the whole branch was shown as Blue but the only class authorised was D63XX  - which were Yellow RA (steam had of course effectively ended in most of Cornwall by then),    Either some bridgeworks had taken place OR the 1963 published classification of the route was erroneous - alas I have no amendments to that document which might clarify if it was erroneous or not.

Thanks for this Mike - its good to know what one ought to do. So maybe running Lode Star down the line might cause the civil engineering team some worries - luckily I don't have to take their advice all the time.

[The Stationmaster]

On 26/11/2023 at 13:13, Miss Prism said:

 

Looks good.

 

 

A few did.

 

The last 850 to survive as a saddle tank was Southall's 1925 which was officially withdrawn in April 1951.  It had been retained in rder to shunt a particular location - which alas I've not been able to run to earth and which I forgot to ask about when I knew footplatemen who remembered the engine.   There was apparently  considerable difficulty in finding a suitablereplacement and eventually a 15XX was tried and found to be ideal so one was transferred to Southall.

[The Stationmaster]

On 30/11/2023 at 11:48, woodenhead said:

Nothing to suggest Bachmann won't keep producing Panniers, might even retool them - look at the class 37 for a direct Accurascale example or the Peaks and 47 for a Heljan one.  For other flavours of GWR 0-6-0 or 2-4-0 or 0-4-2 tank engines I would be looking to Rapido and Dapol who both have an interest in such models with other items of rolling stock they have in development.

I understand that Bachmann considered re-tooling their 57XX/8750 a while back but decided not to proceed for various reasons.

[Steamport Southport]

23 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Well my email proved fruitful as I was able to procure a 850ST kit, so at least one was in stock last week.

 

How much was it vaguely? 

 

More of a marker for another kit that I want. I don't particularly want to bother him and then get that kit from elsewhere. Not GWR so I'll spare you all the details....

 

 

Jason

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I understand that Bachmann considered re-tooling their 57XX/8750 a while back but decided not to proceed for various reasons.

 

Thats interesting Mike, I wonder if that was the same time when at the Bachmann members day at the Mid-Hants I asked them about a non-top feed loco and was told "I hope so - its one of our founding locos and it would be a shame to loose it" or words to that effect.

 

Snooze, you loose.

[Fair Oak Junction]

46 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

How much was it vaguely? 

 

More of a marker for another kit that I want. I don't particularly want to bother him and then get that kit from elsewhere. Not GWR so I'll spare you all the details....

 

 

Jason

 

It cost me £146 without hornblocks, would have been £157 with them. And that is with everything but motor/gearbox.

[Coach bogie]

4 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

It cost me £146 without hornblocks, would have been £157 with them. And that is with everything but motor/gearbox.

Scary but understandable the price increases. I paid £115 for my 850 pannier about three years ago. I paid £40 for my 633T back in the 1990's. Price is still on the box from Wakefield Model Centre.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited December 15, 2023 by Coach bogie

[Fair Oak Junction]

4 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Scary but understandable the price increases. I paid £115 for my 850 pannier about three years ago. I paid £40 for my 633T back in the 1990's. Price is still on the box from Wakefield Model Centre.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Yep, way of the world. I'm happy I got one though 👍

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

It cost me £146 without hornblocks, would have been £157 with them. And that is with everything but motor/gearbox.

 

Thanks.

 

Not bad at all when you think how much they often go for on eBay and will have a set of wheels (and instructions!)

 

I'll have a think over Christmas as I've just spent quite a bit on other kits and did say no more until I've built some of the others!

 

Need some wheels anyway.

 

 

Jason

[Fair Oak Junction]

[Fair Oak Junction]

While I know which loco I'm going to be building the kit as, I do have a general question. In this configuration (three panel tank, medium chimney) what is the earliest livery I could do it in?

[Neal Ball]

13 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

While I know which loco I'm going to be building the kit as, I do have a general question. In this configuration (three panel tank, medium chimney) what is the earliest livery I could do it in?

 

This might help: http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1906.html

[Steamport Southport]

15 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

Oooh. Still got the old style box as well!

 

 

 

Jason

[Fair Oak Junction]

5 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

This might help: http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1906.html

 

Thanks. I've had a look through that site before, my problem is lack of knowledge of when the 850s got specific tanks, or chimneys, etc.

Ideally I'd like to do it in early green with Indian red frames, but for all I know none looked like this at that time.

The details of the GWR is a bit of a mystery to me 😉

[Miss Prism]

41 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

While I know which loco I'm going to be building the kit as

 

If you know that, you would probably have a picture, and would know the livery.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I do have a general question. In this configuration (three panel tank, medium chimney) what is the earliest livery I could do it in?

 

Very difficult to tell when the medium chimneys came it, probably post WWI. Tall safety valve covers were still the norm then. (i.e. unlike the kit)

 

Post WWI livery would be unlined green, no insignia, probably polished safety valve cover, possibly (depending on date) shiny dome.

 

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

 

If you know that, you would probably have a picture, and would know the livery.

 

 

 

Very difficult to tell when the medium chimneys came it, probably post WWI. Tall safety valve covers were still the norm then. (i.e. unlike the kit)

 

Post WWI livery would be unlined green, no insignia, probably polished safety valve cover, possibly (depending on date) shiny dome.

 

 

 

 

I was 99% sure it would be too late, so no pretty early GWR livery for me then 😄

I'll be doing it as 2007, the Worcester Butts Spur loco, and will base it off this picture then 🙂

[Miss Prism]

Remind me, does the kit come with a Collett bunker?

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

Remind me, does the kit come with a Collett bunker?

 

I honestly don't know, but knowing my luck it wont because nothing is ever simple 😄