Poll: GWR Pannier Tanks; time for a modern spec OO loco.

[Miss Prism]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

it would be relatively easy for Accurascale to tool body parts for 1854 or 2721 half-cab heavy panniers, possibly the Buffalos, and the saddle tank versions

 

It would be very far from 'relatively easy' for the Buffalos and saddle tanks, even after a prototype had been chosen.

 

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

I would love to see an 850/1901 in RTR purely because of 2007, which worked in Worcester on the Butts Spur.

I'd even take a kit, but the old ones are hard to find these days.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Fair Oak Junction

[Schooner]

55 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Butts Spur

Indecently modellable for those who have only narrow space and fancy a crack at an American-style sorting-and-spotting layout (vs. Inglenook style shunting)

 

Etc etc etc :)

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Schooner
Oh go on then, just a couple more

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, Schooner said:

Indecently modellable for those who have only narrow space and fancy a crack at an American-style sorting-and-spotting layout (vs. Inglenook style shunting)

 

For sure, and If I ever actually get an 850 I will do a small layout based on it 😉

[The Johnster]

I'd buy an 850/1901 half-cab if anyone made one; none at Tondu during my period but 1923 had been sold out of service to the NCB and seems to have been used as a general spare, spending periods at several collieries in the area.  There is a photo of it in the Hodges/Davies books at Penllwyngwent Colliery in Ogmore Vale dated June 1956, which is well within my definition for Rule 1 purposes.  Magnifently modellable as well, absolutely fllthy, missing handrails, dings in the tank sides, vacuum bags removed, and tarpaulin weather sheet deployed despite the photo being clearly taken on a sunny day.  Some trees in the background are devoid of leaves, though, and the sun is low, so the date is supect and may be Jan instead of June.

[Siberian Snooper]

11 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I would love to see an 850/1901 in RTR purely because of 2007, which worked in Worcester on the Butts Spur.

I'd even take a kit, but the old ones are hard to find these days.

 

850 kits are occasionally available from Alan Gibson, put your name down for one and when the list gets to ten Colin will run off a batch.

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

55 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

850 kits are occasionally available from Alan Gibson, put your name down for one and when the list gets to ten Colin will run off a batch.

 

 

 

Ahhh, good to know. Thanks!

[Captain Kernow]

On 24/11/2023 at 09:57, St Enodoc said:

So a 16xx chassis would be a better starting point for a 2021.

Which I believe you can buy separately from Nu Cast Partners?

 

[Captain Kernow]

Anyway, I knew that if I asked AS not to make a 2021, then they would... so I have now to ditch Plan 'A' and revert to the original Plan 'A' (I'm also confused), and build the Nu Cast Partners kit (which I really ought to purchase first)....

 

[sandra]

I think it’s rather a shame Accrascale didn’t decide to model one of the older Pannier or Saddle tanks. The Bachmann 57XX is very good and an older tank, some of which lasted to the mid fifties, would have been nice.

 

I did fairly recently buy a kit built model of an 850/1901 tank off Ebay.

This is a model of 1965 which I believe was withdrawn in 1950. I don’t know if it’s an accurate model of the locomotive, I’d be surprised if an open cab Pannier lasted to 1950 but it may represent its appearance earlier in its life. It’s built compensated in EM gauge from an M & L kit and is fitted with a Portescap motor. It would be nice if a manufacturer produced a model of one of these older and to my eyes, more interesting Panniers.

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

29 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

Ahhh, good to know. Thanks!

 

And it seems they do both saddle tank and pannier tank kits.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Fair Oak Junction]

According to Wiki 170 850/1901s built, 44 survived into BR including 3 still with saddletanks.

Sounds like a fair candidate for RTR to me, but obviously the economics might say otherwise.

[JimC]

Foks, its worth considering the two main 060T/pannier tank routes separately. The large ones had 4'6 (19thC) or 4'7.5 wheels and 7ft3+8ft3 wheelbase, and had this same wheelbase from the 633 class of 1871 right through to the 94s, although the overall length steadily increased from 29'10 of the 633s to 33'2 of the 94s. These included 645s, 655s/1741s and 2701s from Wolverhampton and 1813, 1851, 1701 and 2721 from Swindon, followed of course by 57s, 8750s, 9700s and 94s. All these may well be manageable with a single basic chassis design, although the upperworks varies considerably - side tanks, saddle tanks and pannier tanks over the years.

The small ones were more disparate. Like the large ones they got longer over the years, but there were also different wheel sizes and wheelbases. 850s and 1901s had a short (7''4+6'4) wheelbase and 4' ->4'1.5 in wheels. 2021s were similar, but had a longer wheelbase of 7'4+7'4, as did all their successors, the 16s which were basically modernised 2021s, and the 54s 64s and 74s, which had larger wheels. 

[Steamport Southport]

On 24/11/2023 at 12:00, Schooner said:

 

Not according to this poll, if one gives it more than the most cursory glance.

 

EDIT: Unless Accurascale's business plan for their steam locos is not to make good models for the market but better models than their rivals to target market share. In which case I can't see how they could do better than a 57xx.

 

I'm afraid any manufacturer only listening to a few people on the internet will soon be an ex manufacturer (I remember everyone asking for a Class 74 yet they only got about a dozen confirmed orders). That manufacturer soon folded and the retailer than commissioned it took a huge hit financially. I was one of those dozen.

 

They need to be convinced they are going to sell thousands of the things so they would probably be looking at their own research into what sells and other "wishlists" such as the one done by Brian McDermott and his team.

 

It should be seen as a useful guide rather than set in stone.

 

Note that only 181 people have responded to the poll and of those only 38 model pre 1920s. That is half the amount that model BR. That is out of nearly 44,000 RMWeb "members" most of whom probably don't even view this section of the forum. I doubt many BR era modellers do as I would have thought that BR era statistic would be much higher.

 

Also worth noting that of those 181 respondents, 106 of them asked for a 57XX with 20 asking for a 97XX!

 

Proof is at the top of the page.

 

 

Jason

[Coach bogie]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

44 survived into BR including 3 still with saddletanks.

Sounds like a fair candidate for RTR to me, but obviously the economics might say otherwise.

Quite a number were withdrawn in 1949 to be fair with all, apart from 2011,2012 gone by 1953.

 

Of interest is the number sold to industry, mostly the South Wales mines but 1956 ended up at Darlington before moving to St Helens.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

According to Wiki 170 850/1901s built, 44 survived into BR including 3 still with saddletanks.

Sounds like a fair candidate for RTR to me, but obviously the economics might say otherwise.

 

Most of them only just though. They went when the 16XX Panniers turned up in numbers.

 

There was a few that survived at Birkenhead for a while, ironically they were by then LMR engines!

 

 

Jason

[Fair Oak Junction]

I know the chances of the 850/1901s being done RTR is basically non-existent, but I can dream.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Fair Oak Junction

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I know the chances of the 850/1901s being done RTR is basically non-existent, but I can dream 😉

 

I don't know so much. You've just got to convince the right people that demand is there for it to be viable. Short runs of "oddities" do seem to sell.

 

Did anyone think that we would be getting Big Emma/Bertha, the LNER U1 or Bellerophon for example? Plenty more could go on that list, particularly all those prototype diesels.

 

I certainly didn't think we would ever see a RTR 1361 (two actually) or 1366. 15XX and 16XX were very remote as well.

 

 

 

Jason

[Schooner]

51 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Note that only 181 people have responded to the poll and of those only 38 model pre 1920s.

Rather than discounting those 38 respondents, one might look to the useful information they provide.

 

38 people and the further 69 '1920s' modellers - well over half all respondants - 'should' have saddle tank 0-6-0s, those being in the majority pretty much till grouping.

 

See also the obvious support for any Victorian-designed loco.

 

See also my stated point that choosing a loco only useful to layouts set after 1930 excludes many people who cannot viably run a 57xx.

 

An 850 - to keep going with that example - chassis with suitable bodykits (either from factory or aftermarket/cottage industry supplied*) could be used on most Western layouts set 1875-1945 and almost any layout up to c.1965. How many 57xx customers would boycott a Victorian design (in suitable guise) vs how many cannot buy a 1930s loco, I wonder...

 

 

*I've bought 3 x Peckett W4s from Hornby, not one of which runs as a Peckett W4. Does Hornby care?

Edited November 26, 2023 by Schooner
*

[Compound2632]

14 hours ago, Schooner said:

 American-style sorting-and-spotting layout

 

 

Sorry I'm going to go deplorably off topic here but the sorting-and-spotting I can see going on here needs working sheep and dog...

 

I wish Louis would post this set of pictures on his own topic as I have several more things to say that would be just as totally OT here!

Edited November 26, 2023 by Compound2632

[Schooner]

Your wish, dear @Compound2632...

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

850 kits are occasionally available from Alan Gibson, put your name down for one and when the list gets to ten Colin will run off a batch.

 

Does that actually happen? 

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, sandra said:

This is a model of 1965 which I believe was withdrawn in 1950. I don’t know if it’s an accurate model of the locomotive,

 

Looks good.

 

2 hours ago, sandra said:

I’d be surprised if an open cab Pannier lasted to 1950

 

A few did.

 

[Siberian Snooper]

48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Does that actually happen? 

 

Yes it does, that's how I got mine and a couple of 1076s to go with them. They're still in the one day stash. But, there's always a But it does take some time to get to the magic number, maybe up to a couple of years or so!!!

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Siberian Snooper
to add the but.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Well I would love to register interest with Alan Gibson for an 850 kit, but apparently you need to print off and post a form in to do it.

I haven't owned a printer in over 5 years, and haven't posted anything in even longer 😄