Dia. AA20 'Toad' Brake Van

[Neal Ball]

On 06/07/2023 at 16:10, Tankerman said:

 

John, is there any chance of a Truro and/or a St Blazey set?

Steve @railtec-models will make up depot allocations for you. I’ve used several of the transfers and they are very high quality.

[Pteremy]

A quick update on the roof issue.

 

I ordered the BR Grey 'Worcester' version early this week (in addition to my original preorder). This one has a noticeably smoother fitting roof and as a result the bowing is much less obvious. One of those things you only notice when looking for it.

 

As for the original Yeovil (P.M) no surgery yet, but I did put some black tack over the central side magnets to see if I could increase the grip. It doesn't fix the issue completely but the bow is now no worse than the 'Worcester' example. So worth trying as an alternative to gluing.

[cctransuk]

On 06/07/2023 at 15:10, Tankerman said:

 

John, is there any chance of a Truro and/or a St Blazey set?

 

Yes - St. Blazey coming very shortly; WATCH THIS SPACE!

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

On 08/07/2023 at 12:10, cctransuk said:

 

Yes - St. Blazey coming very shortly; WATCH THIS SPACE!

 

John Isherwood.

 

Right - major rehash of my Sheets BL166 completed!!

 

Ten sheets, each containing twenty sets of authentic 'TOAD' number / allocation etc. lettering.

 

Each sheet covers many 'TOAD' Diagrams, but the entire gwr.org.co.uk list of AA20 observed number / allocation sets are covered by the ten sheets.

 

Coverage of each sheets is as follows : -

 

Sheet BL166 BALA - BRISTOL. BALA, BANBURY, BARRY, BASSALEG, BASINGSTOKE, BIRKENHEAD, BLOWERS GREEN, BODMIN, BORDESLEY JCT, BRECON, BRIDPORT, BRISTOL.

 

Sheet BL166 BRISTOL EAST DEPOT - CREWE. BRISTOL EAST DEPOT, BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS, BRISTOL WEST DEPOT, BULLO PILL, CADAXTON, CARDIFF, CARMARTHEN, CARMARTHEN JCT, CATHAYS, CHELTENHAM HIGH ST, CHESTER, CHOLSEY & MOULSFORD, CIRENCESTER, COKE OVENS, COLEY BRANCH & CREWE.

 

Sheet BL166 CREWE - GLOUCESTER. CREWE, CROES NEWYDD, CROES NEWYDD No.5., DIDCOT, DOWLAIS CAE HARRIS, DOWLAIS CENTRAL, DUFFRYN YARD, EAST USK JCT, EXETER, FERNDALE, FISHGUARD, FISHGUARD HARBOUR, RETURN IMMEDIATELY TO FISHGUARD, FRESHFORD, GLOUCESTER.

 

Sheet BL166 GLOUCESTER - LEAMINGTON. GLOUCESTER, GRANGETOWN, GREENFORD, HARTLEBURY, HEREFORD BARTON, HEREFORD (MOORFIELD), HIGH WYCOMBE, HOLT JCN, HONEYBOURNE, KIDDERMINSTER, KINGSBRIDGE, KINGTON BRANCH, LAIRA, LEAMINGTON.

 

Sheet BL166 LLANDILO - NEWPORT DOCK STREET. LLANDILO JUNC, LLANELLY, LLANELLY DOCK, LLANELLY (L&MM), LLANIDLOES, LLANTRISANT, LUDLOW, LYDBROOK,  LYDNEY, MANCHESTER, MARLBOROUGH, MARAZION, MERTHYR, MOAT LANE (Ew), MOAT LANE, MORETON IN MARSH, No.8 TRANSFER, NEATH, NEATH DIVISION, NEWPORT DOCK STREET.

 

Sheet BL166 MAESGLAS - PENZANCE. MAESGLAS, NEWTON ABBOT, NEYLAND, OLD OAK COMMON, OSWESTRY, OSWESTRY No.4, OXFORD, OXLEY SIDINGS, PADDINGTON, PANTYFFYNNON, PAR, PARK ROYAL, PEMBREY, PENZANCE.

 

Sheet BL166 PLYMOUTH - SHREWSBURY. PLYMOUTH, PLYMOUTH MILLBAY, PONTYPOOL ROAD, PORTLAND, PORTMADOC, TO WORK BETWEEN PRINCES RISBOROUGH AND CHINNOR ONLY, RADYR JUNCTION, READING, RHYMNEY, ROATH BASIN JUNCTION, ROGERSTONE, RUABON, SALISBURY, SALTNEY, SALTNEY No.4, SENGHENYDD, SEVERN TUNNEL, SEVERN TUNNEL JUNC, SHREWSBURY, SHREWSBURY.

 

Sheet BL166 SHREWSBURY (COTON HILL) - TAVISTOCK. SHREWSBURY (COTON HILL), SLOUGH, SOUTHALL, STAFFORD ROAD LOCO, STOKE GIFFORD, STOKE GIFFORD TO SWINDON LOCAL, STOURBRIDGE, ST. BLAZEY, SWANSEA, SWANSEA DOCKS, SWINDON, SWINDON TO STOKE GIFFORD LOCAL, TAUNTON, TAVISTOCK, TAVISTOCK JUNCTION.

 

Sheet BL166 TETBURY BRANCH - YEOVIL. TETBURY BRANCH, THINGLEY, TONDU, TOWYN, TREHERBERT, WELSHPOOL No.2, WESTBURY, WEST DRAYTON, WEYMOUTH, WHITLAND, WHITLAND TO PEMBROKE DOCK, WOLVERHAMPTON, WORCESTER, YEOVIL.

 

2mm., 2.5mm., 3mm., 3.5mm. &  4mm. scale price is £9.00

S scale price is £18.00

7mm. scale price is £27.00

Gauge 1 price is £36.00

 

See https://www.cctrans.org.uk/index.htm for ordering and payment details; the gwr.org.co.uk list of allocations can be found at http://www.gwr.org.uk/notes/brakeallocations.doc

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

Edited July 9, 2023 by cctransuk

[The Johnster]

Good to see Tondu still available, John, expect an order for another BL166 Tetbury Branch-Yeovil sheet shortly after I’ve bought my toad and ooh-d and aah-d over it!

[MidlandRed]

Here’s mine - what a beautifully detailed model - a minor quibble - I’m a little surprised the buffers aren’t sprung. But a fabulous model nonetheless. 
 

Anyhow, do any of you guys knowledgable about things WR Worcestershire/Herefordshire in the 60s know which route Worcester to Leominster would be? Via Ledbury and Hereford, or Hartlebury, Bewdley, Tenbury Wells (or either)? 
 

[The Stationmaster]

57 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

Here’s mine - what a beautifully detailed model - a minor quibble - I’m a little surprised the buffers aren’t sprung. But a fabulous model nonetheless. 
 

Anyhow, do any of you guys knowledgable about things WR Worcestershire/Herefordshire in the 60s know which route Worcester to Leominster would be? Via Ledbury and Hereford, or Hartlebury, Bewdley, Tenbury Wells (or either)? 
 

Going offa 1960 WTT the most  obvious likely ones are Honeybourne, Ashcurch, probably Bromyard, Hereford, Newlands, Droitwich Spa, and Pontypool Road.  There might have been a working through to Oxford but that depends on various things which aren't known.   Droitwich Spa looks to be the limit of trip working for Worcester based trains in that direction,  

 

Severn Tunnel Jcn (via Honeybourne) is a possible but not sure if it would be beyond Cloucester. I didn't notice any likely Oxley or Stourbridge Jcn workings..  But all of this is b very much based on what was in the WTT and at times in those days that bore about a much resemblance to what actually as the chances of getting a double six with a pair of dice

[The Johnster]

I would have thought (I do not authoritatively know) that a Worcester-Leominster working and it’s reciprocal would have run Hartlebury/Bewdley/Tenbury, as via Ledbury needs a reversal at Shelwick Jc. or Hereford.  But, then, in my head a Worcester-Leominster working makes less sense than a Kiddeminster-Leominster one, so what do I know?  Kiddie men had the necessary route knowledge for this, not sure about Worcester.  Worcester would very certainly have had route knowledge Hereford via Ledbury/Shelwick. 
 

 Paging Phil Bullock, Phil Bullock to the thread, please..

Edited July 11, 2023 by The Johnster

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Paging Phil Bullock, Phil Bullock to the thread, please..

if you put @ plus their user name it actually notifies them.

 

eg @Phil Bullock

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Tim Dubya]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I would have thought (I do not authoritatively know) that a Worcester-Leominster working and it’s reciprocal would have run Hartlebury/Bewdley/Tenbury, as via Ledbury needs a reversal at Shelwick Jc. or Hereford.  But, then, in my head a Worcester-Leominster working makes less sense than a Kiddeminster-Leominster one, so what do I know?  Kiddie men had the necessary route knowledge for this, not sure about Worcester.  Worcester would very certainly have had route knowledge Hereford via Ledbury/Shelwick. 
 

 Paging Phil Bullock, Phil Bullock to the thread, please..

 

@Phil Bullock 

[Phil Bullock]

Evening folks! 

@Tim Dubya @Hal Nail @The Johnster @The Stationmaster
 

Rapido Worcester - Leominster branded Toad residing here needless to say…

 

And route was via Bromyard … leaves the Worcester - Hereford line at Bransford Junction on the western side of Worcester then proceeds  up the Teme Catchment via Suckley and Knightwick to Bromyard. West of Bromyard through the now preserved Rowden Mill and Fencote stations to Leominster. If you drive along the lovely straight Leominster by-pass you are on the track bed.

 

The line west of Bromyard closed as early as 1952 although there was a special the length of the line in 1958… the section from Bromyard back to Worcester survived until 1964 with the last train a special to Blackpool double headed by two Collett Goods as far as Worcester. And that was it….

 

But no doubt the RU branded Toad covered other workings once the line closed….😉

Edited July 13, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Rowden Mill corrected thanks CJL

[GMKAT7]

Good evening all,

 

Anyone considered the direct route?

Worcester to Leominster via Bromyard.

Just a thought, no actual evidence that this was the working covered by this van.

 

best regards,

Nigel.

Edited July 11, 2023 by GMKAT7
Double post, Phil best me to it!

[MidlandRed]

3 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Evening folks! 

@Tim Dubya @Hal Nail @The Johnster @The Stationmaster
 

Rapido Worcester - Leominster branded Toad residing here needless to say…

 

And route was via Bromyard … leaves the Worcester - Hereford line at Bransford Junction on the western side of Worcester then proceeds  up the Teme Catchment via Suckley and Knightwick to Bromyard. West of Bromyard through the now preserved Rowley Mill and Fencote stations to Leominster. If you drive along the lovely straight Leominster by-pass you are on the track bed.

 

The line west of Bromyard closed as early as 1952 although there was a special the length of the line in 1958… the section from Bromyard back to Worcester survived until 1964 with the last train a special to Blackpool double headed by two Collett Goods as far as Worcester. And that was it….

 

But no doubt the RU branded Toad covered other workings once the line closed….😉

There were two scenarios I wondered about following these responses:- 

 

1) Noted the van would work other Worcester based workings after the direct line to Leominster closed - presumably it might work trip freight on the remaining branch to Bromyard (if goods facilities actually remained at stations at that stage), but would the route stencil/sticker be removed or simply left in place?

 

2) After closure of the direct route, is it possible the van might have worked to Hereford via Ledbury - and then onward on either a different train or the same one minus some dropped off wagons, to Leominster? 
 

There’s always rule 1 I guess!! I have an old Hornby Toad with a Stourbridge RU notice, presumably possible to get to the Worcester area also (albeit with slightly less homely interior decor and accoutrements)!! 

[Phil Bullock]

6 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

There were two scenarios I wondered about following these responses:- 

 

1) Noted the van would work other Worcester based workings after the direct line to Leominster closed - presumably it might work trip freight on the remaining branch to Bromyard (if goods facilities actually remained at stations at that stage), but would the route stencil/sticker be removed or simply left in place?

 

2) After closure of the direct route, is it possible the van might have worked to Hereford via Ledbury - and then onward on either a different train or the same one minus some dropped off wagons, to Leominster? 
 

There’s always rule 1 I guess!! I have an old Hornby Toad with a Stourbridge RU notice, presumably possible to get to the Worcester area also (albeit with slightly less homely interior decor and accoutrements)!! 

There’s pictures of a Toad on the truncated daily goods here

 

Toad at Knightwick

 

and here

 

Toad at Suckley

 

My Toad knowledge isn’t good enough to say it’s the same one…

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

There were two scenarios I wondered about following these responses:- 

 

1) Noted the van would work other Worcester based workings after the direct line to Leominster closed - presumably it might work trip freight on the remaining branch to Bromyard (if goods facilities actually remained at stations at that stage), but would the route stencil/sticker be removed or simply left in place?

 

2) After closure of the direct route, is it possible the van might have worked to Hereford via Ledbury - and then onward on either a different train or the same one minus some dropped off wagons, to Leominster? 
 

There’s always rule 1 I guess!! I have an old Hornby Toad with a Stourbridge RU notice, presumably possible to get to the Worcester area also (albeit with slightly less homely interior decor and accoutrements)!! 

1.  it would simply have been used as a Worcester based van.. Whether someone bothered to alterr any wording before it was due shopping is probably unlikely but you never know.

2.  there would be no reason to work the van to Leominster via Hereford as there was unlikely to be any traffic to justify such a working.  What traffic there was would be worked to Hereford on the booked train and worked forward from there.   But by the 1960s a lot of freight traffic was disappearing at a considerable rate anyway and that led to regular rationalisation of freight services and routes used for freight traffic (that is 'routes used' in terms of the marshalling and routeing instructions, thus with no direct route Worcester would no longer be a forwarding point for Leominster).

 

Stourbridge vans probably worked to Worcester anyway.  As I noted above Droitwich appears to have been the limit of Worcester's trip working in that direction.  Everything else, in local terms, on the route appears to have been worked from the other end as the balances of trains are that way round, i.e. they didn't start from Worcester and come back there.  But again things changed over theyears and what I quoted was no more than a snapshot of one particular timetable

[MidlandRed]

@The Stationmaster @Phil Bullock thanks for the info. V interesting. I’m presuming from comments regarding the WTT 1960, that trip freights north of Droitwich (either on the main route towards Stourbridge, or via the Severn Valley or Tenbury Wells lines) may have been run from the Hartlebury, Kidderminster or Stourbridge directions. There are Toads in the GW allocations list with all three of those locations (i.e. Hartlebury, Kidderminster and Stourbridge RU. Interesting that the railcars and class 122s used on the Severn Valley and Tenbury Wells lines appear to have been based at Worcester (and also operated the Bromyard branch - although I have a photo of one of the last batch of class 120s (when allocated to Tyseley) near Suckley - possibly on a through service via Worcester, in a book). All of the WR (Birmingham/ West Midlands) 122s were allocated to Tyseley but parked out at places like Stourbridge J, Leamington and particularly Worcester - the latter had a number of WR railcars on its allocation in the 50s and till they were all withdrawn by 1962. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by MidlandRed
Correction of silly auto corrects I didn't notice!!

[The Stationmaster]

53 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

@The Stationmaster @Phil Bullock thanks for the info. V interesting. I’m presuming from comments regarding the WTT 1960, that trip freights north of Droitwich (either on the main route towards Stourbridge, or via the Severn Valley or Tenbury Wells lines) may have been run from the Hartlebury, Kidderminster or Stourbridge directions. There are Toads Interesting the the railcars and class 122 used on the Severn Valley and Tenbury Wells lines appear to have been based at Worcester (and also operated the Bromyard branch - although I have a photo of one of the last batch of class 120s (when allocated to Tyseley) near Suckley - possibly on a through service via Worcester, in a book). 

Yes - the timings illustrate that freight was serviced from the other end(s).  It would have been decided by the volume of traffic more than anything else.  the passenger workings would have been based on teh most convenient way of doing the job and with dieselisation they would ost likely have been arranged to minimise the number of depots trained both in terms of traincrew but also artisans.

[VIA185]

On 11/07/2023 at 21:13, Phil Bullock said:

Evening folks! 

@Tim Dubya @Hal Nail @The Johnster @The Stationmaster
 

Rapido Worcester - Leominster branded Toad residing here needless to say…

 

And route was via Bromyard … leaves the Worcester - Hereford line at Bransford Junction on the western side of Worcester then proceeds  up the Teme Catchment via Suckley and Knightwick to Bromyard. West of Bromyard through the now preserved Rowley Mill and Fencote stations to Leominster. If you drive along the lovely straight Leominster by-pass you are on the track bed.

 

The line west of Bromyard closed as early as 1952 although there was a special the length of the line in 1958… the section from Bromyard back to Worcester survived until 1964 with the last train a special to Blackpool double headed by two Collett Goods as far as Worcester. And that was it….

 

But no doubt the RU branded Toad covered other workings once the line closed….😉

Isn't the preserved station ROWDEN MILL? It was derelict when last saw it - tells you how long ago that was! (CJL)

[Phil Bullock]

11 hours ago, VIA185 said:

Isn't the preserved station ROWDEN MILL? It was derelict when last saw it - tells you how long ago that was! (CJL)

It is! Many thanks now corrected.

 

Worcester never had many trip freight workings as unlike neighbouring Gloucestershire there were few branch lines.

 

Traffic was largely as follows:

 

Agricultural to Evesham and Moreton in Marsh and intermediate stations …. Fertiliser in , produce out.

 

Coal to Underwood’s at Droitwich and Henwick power station. 
 

Other than that there would have been local freights with traffic for stations on the routes to Kidderminster Bromsgrove Moreton traffic n Marsh Gloucester and Hereford.

 

I only caught the tail end of Kidderminster traffic which by the late 60s was a job for the Kidderminster pilot including shunting RAF Hartlebury . This loco left the train in the up goods loop at Droitwich presumably for collection by a Worcester loco although I never saw that. There was an incident at Hartlebury yard in 1967 which gives some insight…

 

 Train crash Hartlebury

 

Coal for Stourport PS came from the Birmingham direction and usually ran round at Hartlebury although I do remember the occasional run round in Worcester yard.

 

The Bromsgrove tripper was truncated to Droitwich by this time with Underwood’s coal in 21 ton hoppers and was a Hymek turn … the last Worcester based local freight service IIRC

 

And there was of course more traffic within the city on the vinegar and coal yard branches but perhaps they were really just short distance shunts…

[Captain Kernow]

Well, my AA20 (once I've fixed the bowing roof) will somehow end up at Leominster, having been loaned, due to the regular 'Kington Lines' van being in shops for maintenance. Thus it will be used on the local goods workings along the old Rhyader branch as far as Capel Bethesda. What it will probably not do, is be used on workings down the Midland main line to Westerleigh Yard and Callow Lane.

 

[Dunsignalling]

A Yeovil  (PM.) RU Toad arrived on Thursday from "The Big H" along with various bits and pieces that should keep me busy while listening to TMS next week.

 

Happy to say the roof is rifle-straight, though there is a minute gap along the cabin when seated on both ends. I only spotted it by the a glint of one of the securing magnets when the light struck it at a precise angle. Fortunately it's not an angle that will be encountered when the van is in use, so I shall leave well alone! 😀

 

Losing the NEM mounts took mere seconds. The screw-holes were just where I need them, so were just re-drilled and tapped using the Kadee #246 Tap & Drill set. A pair of my preferred #146 couplers then went on giving perfect alignment before the second half of my cuppa had time to get cold. Not a knife, file, nor the merest sliver of packing required!

 

I'm highly delighted, but watch out for those sand pipes! I caught my thumb on one and distorted it so it scraped on the rail head when I put the van on the track. Easily rectified and no blood spilt.

 

My elderly Mainline Toad is officially withdrawn with immediate effect.

 

John

Edited July 15, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Hal Nail]

This is not meant to be fault finding, merely asking as I'm in the middle of painting one, was the inside of the verandah definitely black in BR days? I had assumed body colour.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

…….

 A pair of my preferred #146 couplers then went on giving perfect alignment before the second half of my cuppa had time to get cold. Not a knife, file, nor the merest sliver of packing required…..

Hi John, good run down of your commissioning process.

 

I used a #18 straight into the NEM socket - was there a reason for discarding that in favour of a #146 and presumably gearbox?

 

Thanks, Neal

[BVMR21]

Ended up acquiring one of these earlier this week from Monkbar Model Shop, lovely model, should go nicely with the other Rapido wagons I have (and the ones I intend to get at some point), should soon be able to make a full Rapido GWR set if one so felt inclined what with the 44xx coming as well.

 

[Dunsignalling]

Just now, Neal Ball said:

Hi John, good run down of your commissioning process.

 

I used a #18 straight into the NEM socket - was there a reason for discarding that in favour of a #146 and presumably gearbox?

 

Thanks, Neal

Personal preference and habit, really.

 

I'm not keen on the look of the NEM-mount Kadees, or the mounts themselves TBH, and I always need to mess about adding shims to stop them flopping about.

 

Because the pivots are so much closer together, too, they behave slightly differently to the "boxed" couplers that are fitted to 95%+ of my models.

 

It's not so much of an issue with brake vans which have footboards to screen the mounts, but a #146 tucked up tight to the underframe opens up the daylight under the ends of most wagons.

 

John