RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Johnster said: RU paying attention at the back? It’s GW-ese for ‘Restricted Use’, that is, not available as part of the general wagon pool. Often accompanied by details of a branch or even an individual working the van is booked to work to Oh no it isn't. Please keep up as I've written it several times on RMweb in the past. It meant 'Restricted User' which means something rather different from restricted use. And it had nothing at all to do with any sort of wagon pool (that was made clear by the words 'Not In Common Use' which came along later). For those who are interested the RU marking was introduced during WWII and was really very much a consequence of war time traffic conditions. Prior to then GWR freight (or 'goods' if you and the GWR prefer) brakevans were individually allocated to a named Goods Guard and he held thekeys for his van - there were no doubt some spare vans available to cover cripples and vans sent away to works. But basically the system was the van went where the Guard and Guard went where his van went. But during the war trains could sit for hours and hours without turning a wheel. waiting acceptance into over-worked yards and so on. And once a Guard;s day was up he would be relieved where the train stood and thus he effectively lost control of his van. So the GWR changed the system and instead allocated vans on the basis of booked need and or moved them around to meet changing traffic demands. But at the same time they obviously realised that many locations would need what amounted to a permanent allocation of a brakevan or vans for local everyday traffic working. This latter need was met by allocating Restructed User brakevans (i.e. only this place named on the van is the user of it) to ensure that local needs were covered and that local vans would not be taken for other trains. The allocation of RU vans to set lists of long distance trains appears to be a later development and was not in the original Instruction relating to RU vans as o it is specifically noted as relating on;y to local use. Edited July 4, 2023 by The Stationmaster 3 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, Tim Dubya said: Ah but how do you know, as an rtr item, if it's going to run well on your own (hand built or otherwise) track without extra weight? Of course one could simply stick weights underneath but that means working it around all the undergubbins. Easy enough with kits, just don't stick the roof on until after test-running the wagon. Mine generally go on after both they and the bodies have been painted, ensuring clean colour separation with no need to mask or rely on the steadiness of my brush hand, which (other than on a very good day) inevitably isn't quite what it was forty years ago. Having had a couple of internal weights come loose, I have lately been attaching roofs with Copydex, which gives a firm joint but will allow them to be prised off without damage should it become necessary. With r-t-r, my MO for increasing weight is to separate the body and chassis, remove the steel weight and replace it with a bit of lead flashing. There's usually some room for more if that's not enough. John Edited July 5, 2023 by Dunsignalling 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 13 hours ago, Not Jeremy said: Well, I appreciate that the lighting is poor, but it has to be said that I struggle to see through the windows on W68740. As to what and what isn't inside, I couldn't possibly comment..... The Rapido model is however superb, no matter how you look at it. Simon That lamp is also superb.. Who's is it? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Not Jeremy Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 Thank you very much Scott. The lamp is a miniature work of art in 1/32 scale (G1), one of several batches made by the very talented Chris Tolhurst, famous in 16mm scale especially for his very beautiful bespoke steam engines. Unfortunately for us he has now retired and works on his own models only, I think. Simon 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 My service vehicle (as opposed to Titfield star) is in the post. I am hoping for an effect like Stonehenge and the Summer Solstice - look through a window at the right angle with the sun/light in the right position and the interior will be lit up as if by a host of angels.... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelu Chris Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I have a day off tomorrow so I am off to a local (ish) model shop to pick up my toad. Very excited to see it in person after seeing the pictures! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Pteremy said: My service vehicle (as opposed to Titfield star) is in the post. I am hoping for an effect like Stonehenge and the Summer Solstice - look through a window at the right angle with the sun/light in the right position and the interior will be lit up as if by a host of angels.... Don't forget that this only works on Brunel's birthday 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 Well, mine came today and it is a very nice model. But, the overall effect is marred by the bowing of the roof in the upward direction in the middle of the van. I would imagine that many of you purchasing this model will have the same bowing roof, because (incredibly, in my opinion) Rapido must have been sufficiently concerned about it to devote a large section of the accompanying pamphlet to it and how to fix it (glue to roof down). I have to say that I am not impressed. Rapido have marketed a novelty with this vehicle, namely the removable roof, showing the admittedly lovely and detailed van interior. But the price of this is that those who are bothered by the bowing roof now have to get some glue out and fix Rapido's problem. The process of gluing the roof in place should be very straightforward, but why should we have to bother in the first place? My Hornby Toads don't have a bowed roof, nor do my Bachmann ones. Also, holding the roof down tight between finger and thumb, I held the brake van up against a bright light source and tried (in vain) to see any of the interior detail. It just wasn't discernible to any meaningful degree. I suspect that the only way you could actually see enough of it to benefit from it's presence, would be if Rapido installed an interior light. So, I'm not sufficiently disgruntled to return the Toad to the retailer. Apart from the needless incorporation of the interior detail, leading to a real roof bowing problem, the rest of the exterior is exquisite. I shall do a bit of 'modelling', glue the roof in place and enjoy the model. 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 Mine's changed... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 You must be representing a balmy, warm summers day, Corbs, although opening the door is one way to see some of the interior! No good on a bitter winters night with a freezing easterly wind blowing... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted July 5, 2023 Moderators Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Corbs said: Mine's changed... You've let Schroedinger's cat out now! 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 Just now, AY Mod said: You've let Schroedinger's cat out now! I should report anyone who traps an innocent whitemetal Springside cat in their Toad to the RSPC(W)A! 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said: You must be representing a balmy, warm summers day, Corbs, although opening the door is one way to see some of the interior! No good on a bitter winters night with a freezing easterly wind blowing... Haha true! On the BHR we operate with the door latched open (so that we have direct line-of-sight into the passenger wagons) so I wanted to mimic it, although don't think I'm brave enough to open up the central rear shutter.... yet. Edited July 5, 2023 by Corbs 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Corbs said: Mine's changed... How did you do it @RapidoCorbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 Just now, gwrrob said: How did you do it @RapidoCorbs Roof off, scalpel blade to break the seal on the sander rod (which is in a slot) and popped it out, then manipulated the interior wall (and gently pushed the side walls outward) to break the bonds and slide it out. Two razor saw cuts, then scored the top of the door with the scalpel (in hindsight it could likely have all been done more neatly with the scalpel by scoring the door frame). Slid the wall back in, glued the sanding rod back on, then cleaned up the door itself , painted the edges and glued it in (all with Roket card glue). 7 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, Corbs said: Roof off, scalpel blade to break the seal on the sander rod (which is in a slot) and popped it out, then manipulated the interior wall (and gently pushed the side walls outward) to break the bonds and slide it out. Two razor saw cuts, then scored the top of the door with the scalpel (in hindsight it could likely have all been done more neatly with the scalpel by scoring the door frame). Slid the wall back in, glued the sanding rod back on, then cleaned up the door itself , painted the edges and glued it in (all with Roket card glue). How easy was it to remove the roof, asking for a friend... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 25 minutes ago, Corbs said: although don't think I'm brave enough to open up the central rear shutter.... yet. I was lying to myself… 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2023 19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: This latter need was met by allocating Restructed User brakevans (i.e. only this place named on the van is the user of it) to ensure that local needs were covered and that local vans would not be taken for other trains. I have seen a transcript of an allocation and workings list of GWR brake vans in use between Oswestry and Moat Lane for 1942. Were there such lists prior to WWII? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 51 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said: Well, mine came today and it is a very nice model. But, the overall effect is marred by the bowing of the roof in the upward direction in the middle of the van. I would imagine that many of you purchasing this model will have the same bowing roof, because (incredibly, in my opinion) Rapido must have been sufficiently concerned about it to devote a large section of the accompanying pamphlet to it and how to fix it (glue to roof down). I have to say that I am not impressed. Rapido have marketed a novelty with this vehicle, namely the removable roof, showing the admittedly lovely and detailed van interior. But the price of this is that those who are bothered by the bowing roof now have to get some glue out and fix Rapido's problem. The process of gluing the roof in place should be very straightforward, but why should we have to bother in the first place? My Hornby Toads don't have a bowed roof, nor do my Bachmann ones. Also, holding the roof down tight between finger and thumb, I held the brake van up against a bright light source and tried (in vain) to see any of the interior detail. It just wasn't discernible to any meaningful degree. I suspect that the only way you could actually see enough of it to benefit from it's presence, would be if Rapido installed an interior light. So, I'm not sufficiently disgruntled to return the Toad to the retailer. Apart from the needless incorporation of the interior detail, leading to a real roof bowing problem, the rest of the exterior is exquisite. I shall do a bit of 'modelling', glue the roof in place and enjoy the model. Wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me! Brake vans had no interior lighting, though, and the only illumination in there was the stove, especially if the door was open, and the guard's lamp, which I suppose could sit on the desk or a bench and be lit with an led. I for one appreciate the trouble Rap have put in to detail the interior of this model, but of all brake vans the GW toad is probably the one with the gloomiest and least visible interior, small windows in the ends of the cabin and no side windows or duckets; you wouldn't call any brake vans easy to see into, but the GW design is the worst in that respect. Open doors and the end windows in this case would make a big difference! 42 minutes ago, Corbs said: Mine's changed... Interesting; I intend to do this and the central rear shutter opening on mine. It's not unprototypical, because the cabin door was frequently opened whatever the weather by the guard to access the brake handle, and the stoves were pretty fierce (most had a midriff spare tyre where the cast iron had softend enough with the heat for them to 'settle', and I've had them glowing bright orange), and the vans well built with double skinned wooden planked sides and ends, and not as draughty as some other designs, so unless the weather was exceptionally foul the door was probably open for air at lower speeds or while the train was not moving. And what do we get on BLTs? 25mph maximum class J or K working stopping everywhere to shunt or pass traffic, that's what we get on BLTs. In fact most steam age freight operation on layouts does not take place at anything like the train's permitted speed, or at any rate it shouldn't! I'm also intending to have a flickering orange led in the stove on mine, button battery beneath the floor or under the roof. This van is ideal for it, being the best internally detailed, and I'm thinking about how to illuminate side & tail lamps as well... The outer windows at the end also opened, inwards, on earlier vans, as they had side lamp brackets on the corner posts that were only accessible in that way. I do not know if these windows were fixed on later vans, but were hinged inwards where they did open, not droplights. One is open on one of my Oxford toads, and the outline of the interior is visible through it. TTBOMK the windows at the door end of the cabin were always fixed, as the guard could go out on the veranda to attend to side lamps as necessary; he had to go out there for the brake anyway. Must have been pretty unpleasant with the veranda end leading in bad weather or with dusty coal trains in hot dry weather! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, The Johnster said: The outer windows at the end also opened, inwards, on earlier vans, as they had side lamp brackets on the corner posts that were only accessible in that way. I do not know if these windows were fixed on later vans, but were hinged inwards where they did open, not droplights. Yep, on 'our' AA21 it has the openable windows. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Not Jeremy Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Corbs said: Roof off, scalpel blade to break the seal on the sander rod (which is in a slot) and popped it out, then manipulated the interior wall (and gently pushed the side walls outward) to break the bonds and slide it out. Two razor saw cuts, then scored the top of the door with the scalpel (in hindsight it could likely have all been done more neatly with the scalpel by scoring the door frame). Slid the wall back in, glued the sanding rod back on, then cleaned up the door itself , painted the edges and glued it in (all with Roket card glue). You.... you..... you.... Modeller you....!! 2 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted July 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2023 17 minutes ago, Corbs said: Yep, on 'our' AA21 it has the openable windows. Argh! Peasants! Quick, close it again! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 It’s looking nice this. I think I’m going to get a BR grey version and renumber / change the allocation to one more suitable for me in North Wales. Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of depots that had AA20s in the 1950s? thanks 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 6, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2023 15 hours ago, Graham_Muz said: How easy was it to remove the roof, asking for a friend... According to the Good Captain at ths point you should take a bow 👀 (oh for some working emojis) 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 6, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2023 14 hours ago, tanatvalley said: I have seen a transcript of an allocation and workings list of GWR brake vans in use between Oswestry and Moat Lane for 1942. Were there such lists prior to WWII? Presumably there were lists but quite how they worked I don't know, I presume that they would (or should) have included the name of the Guard to whom the van was allocated) and his home station. Or were they organised by name (number within a list drawn up by home station, or were any lists of of Guards' b names purely a local thing? The 1920 Instruction implies that vans were allocated to stations and also notes that there were spare vans although I doubt if there was one of those at every location which had an allocation of brakevans. The principle of allocating the vams to individual Guards was long established. I have GWR written evidence that it definitely existed in 1920 and that suggests to me that it went back even further 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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