RMweb - Change of hosting, missing images - April 2022

[RedgateModels]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Thanks Chris, I'll give it another go. It doesn't seem right that this site is maintained to preserve a record of people's efforts and advice and the pictures are lost, meaning that a lot of the posts don't make sense. I was hoping that they would be restored when this thread started, but it's looking less than likely, so I will be putting back those which weren't lost when my phone got crushed.

 

Not really sure where you are going with this, if you are saying that it's Andy's fault that folks have not set up adequate backup strategies for their images then you are sadly deluded.

 

All my photos automatically get backed up to Onedrive for which I pay 70 quid a year (1 Tb plus Office360). Do I trust them to look after them solely? of course not, they are also periodically copied to my home NAS drive, which is backed up weekly to a separate HDD. My images are generally in 3 or four locations at the same time, depending on the day of the week. This is without uploading any of them to RMweb, Instagram or Facebook.

[MrWolf]

Actually I'm not having a go at anyone and I object to your total misinterpretation of my post and subsequent knee jerk, accusatory response. 

I am fully aware that the crash of this site was outside of the control of those who set up and moderate same. They paid for a hosting service and didn't get what they were promised from the providers.

It was their hope, as you probably know, that the images would be restored in time. I refrained from deleting my old image links and reinserting them because: 1, nobody was totally certain that the old images would not be returned. 2, if everyone was to start reloading images it would likely overload the already struggling system which was trying to resolve itself.

I have most of my pictures backed up to cloud, but like this site, I too didn't quite get my money's worth.

When my phone got smashed up by a work mishap, I found that some images related to my thread were corrupted or missing.

Is this my fault? Is it RMWeb's fault?

Neither.

I happen to think it's wrong that so much has been retrieved, that now it's pretty obvious that the images can't be saved, so in order to preserve the integrity and wealth of information here and as a hat tip to all the work put in by the organisers, we, the original posters should bite the bullet and upload once more as many photos as we possibly can. It may take a while, but it is what it is.

The fact that you can sit there in self praise of how well organised and tech savvy you are about saving a few snapshots has no bearing on my existence, that I would consider delusional.

[Ian J.]

While it's possible for people to fix their individual posts, topics, blog entries, etc, if they have the original images, that won't help some threads where they are collaborative. I'm thinking of the likes of the Creative Photography thread, but there are many more threads with multi-user entries that will always be broken if the original image files can't be recovered from the site host discs, and the original posters can't find/no longer have their images.

 

Personally, I'm holding on to the vain hope that somehow recovery can be achieved.

[Izzy]

Following on from the suggestion that re-instatment of images into threads might sadly never happen I've started the task of trying to restore them one thread at a time. Luckily I have only ever loaded up low res images to RMweb and given them unique file names so I have them all saved.

 

Unfortunately I've hit a problem that I haven't seen mentioned so far, in that for any images uploaded before about 2019, the placeholder file names bear no relationship to the names of the image files and so it is difficult if not impossible to work out which image goes where. Past this date the placeholder names include the image file name within the string so it's fairly easy, if rather laborious, to restore them.

 

How have others who have hit this problem solved it?

 

 

[jamie92208]

46 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Following on from the suggestion that re-instatment of images into threads might sadly never happen I've started the task of trying to restore them one thread at a time. Luckily I have only ever loaded up low res images to RMweb and given them unique file names so I have them all saved.

 

Unfortunately I've hit a problem that I haven't seen mentioned so far, in that for any images uploaded before about 2019, the placeholder file names bear no relationship to the names of the image files and so it is difficult if not impossible to work out which image goes where. Past this date the placeholder names include the image file name within the string so it's fairly easy, if rather laborious, to restore them.

 

How have others who have hit this problem solved it?

 

 

I found that as well but I could usually work out what went where as I tried to put some sort of text before each picture.  However the blank image files below the text area have thevoriginal file names which show up when you go i to edit mode.  When I'm upliading I work out how many i ages I'm going to do then put a seies of 1's into thevpist with blank li es between them then put the titles in on the lines that have the 1's on them.  As readers will no doubt be awRe I often forget to delete all of the 1's.

 

Jamie

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I found that as well but I could usually work out what went where as I tried to put some sort of text before each picture.  However the blank image files below the text area have thevoriginal file names which show up when you go i to edit mode.  When I'm upliading I work out how many i ages I'm going to do then put a seies of 1's into thevpist with blank li es between them then put the titles in on the lines that have the 1's on them.  As readers will no doubt be awRe I often forget to delete all of the 1's.

 

Jamie

 

Ah, thanks. I think I'll concentrate on the easy to sort posts....and leave the rest as long as possible in the hope they might appear....

[jamie92208]

Just out of interest, I've been asked on a pm where my janet and john guide to reloading missing images is.  I've found it on page 10 of thus thread, it's the 4th post down.  If anyone thinks it would ne useful I'd be quite happy to repost it as a separate  thread if folks think it would be useful.

 

Jamie

Edited August 14, 2022 by jamie92208

[47137]

Jamie I have found your post helpful and I remembered the gist of it but I couldn't remember where it was:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/171078-rmweb-change-of-hosting-missing-images-april-2022/?do=findComment&comment=4778414

 

A similar approach works for blogs.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

On 11/08/2022 at 09:45, MrWolf said:

. . .

I happen to think it's wrong that so much has been retrieved, that now it's pretty obvious that the images can't be saved, so in order to preserve the integrity and wealth of information here and as a hat tip to all the work put in by the organisers, we, the original posters should bite the bullet and upload once more as many photos as we possibly can. It may take a while, but it is what it is.

. . .

 

The hard part to me is the scale of the loss. For example, for my blog I printed each new post to a pdf file, and for all of my posts I kept the original RAW files. But my backup strategy was designed to cope with the loss of a blog post, or perhaps the loss of a whole week's posts and updates. I never imagined that the site could allow such a catastophic loss to happen.

 

Today I have restored images to a dozen or so of my blog posts. Each image search runs through thirty Apple 'Photos' image libraries. Where I have deleted the original RAW file I am resorting to PDF Candy to extract images I can post. This is not a trivial operation, even for a blog where I am the only person who posted images. For a topic with many contributors, it will be a nightmare to bring everyone on board.

[NHY 581]

9 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

The hard part to me is the scale of the loss. For example, for my blog I printed each new post to a pdf file, and for all of my posts I kept the original RAW files. But my backup strategy was designed to cope with the loss of a blog post, or perhaps the loss of a whole week's posts and updates. I never imagined that the site could allow such a catastophic loss to happen.

 

 

 

 

Whilst I understand your frustration, once again, THE SITE did not 'allow' it to happen. 

 

The fault lies with the company entrusted with the data. 

 

It's no good repeatedly pointing fingers at Rmweb. 

Harsh as it will sound, despite being so aggrieved, you continue to post on Rmweb and try to rebuild your content. 

 

Accept the situation for what it is. If images can be replaced, replace them over time. If not, move on. 

[Geep7]

What I feel sad about, and i'm sure the rest of the RMWeb team do to, is that it is looking more likely (although not absolutely certain) that we've possibly lost a lot of content that can never be replaced, due to the thread owners having passed on. I won't mention any specific member's names or threads, but there were a few threads that I bookmarked and referred to quite a lot, due to my own modelling interest's, which I know sadly, will never have the images replaced if they are completely lost.

 

Please do not take this post in any way as a criticism of the current image situation on RMWeb. I totally understand and support, Andy and the RMWeb's team in their handling of this situation. There is nothing more that can be done, other than wait. It's just my personal feeling, should the worst case appear to be the outcome of the website upheaval.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 01/04/2022 at 08:26, jamie92208 said:

.......

 

8.   Repeat till all photos are loaded.

 That's the time consuming bit!

[47137]

6 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Whilst I understand your frustration, once again, THE SITE did not 'allow' it to happen. 

 

The fault lies with the company entrusted with the data. 

 

It's no good repeatedly pointing fingers at Rmweb. 

Harsh as it will sound, despite being so aggrieved, you continue to post on Rmweb and try to rebuild your content. 

 

Accept the situation for what it is. If images can be replaced, replace them over time. If not, move on. 

 

To my mind, RMweb is a web site and for convenience I call this a site. The site holds promotional material for its owners, announcements by model train manufacturers, diary information and public discussion; and the owners of the site accept payments from users for 'premium' levels of membership. Trying to break this service down into elements such as the sub-contractors responsible for particular aspects of the service such as provision of software and web hosting does not alter this.

 

If I hire a car and the thing conks out a few yards down the road, my business remains with the company I hired it from not the garage which forgot to put oil in the engine at the last service.

 

The root of the problem will always lie with the owners of RMweb - they choose how to run their business and their business decisions have put themselves and the users of their site where they are now.

 

It's not personal, it's business.

[martin_wynne]

12 minutes ago, 47137 said:

It's not personal, it's business.

 

Indeed. But we have no contract with Warners or RMweb to provide secure hosting of images. Many access the site free of charge, and even those who pay the Gold membership don't get a guaranteed web hosting service included in the price.

 

Martin.

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

 

To my mind, RMweb is a web site and for convenience I call this a site. The site holds promotional material for its owners, announcements by model train manufacturers, diary information and public discussion; and the owners of the site accept payments from users for 'premium' levels of membership. Trying to break this service down into elements such as the sub-contractors responsible for particular aspects of the service such as provision of software and web hosting does not alter this.

 

If I hire a car and the thing conks out a few yards down the road, my business remains with the company I hired it from not the garage which forgot to put oil in the engine at the last service.

 

The root of the problem will always lie with the owners of RMweb - they choose how to run their business and their business decisions have put themselves and the users of their site where they are now.

 

It's not personal, it's business.

 

 

You need to look beyond the pure technicalities and the business, IMHO.

 

RMweb is the substrate that supports a community. The owners/admins are not anonymous people standing back simply trying to make money. They are members of the community too and are doing the best they can in good faith to allow us all to interact, share and talk about the stuff we're all interested in.

 

When suppliers of external services, who should have been trustworthy, let them down I bet they were more devastated about the damage to the community than any of us individual members! They explained where responsibility for the problems truly lay and most of us have backed them and rallied around. That's the most sensible response for the community to take rather than laying blame, which could ultimately break the whole thing up.

 

So while it may be a business it IS also personal!

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Harlequin

[spamcan61]

4 hours ago, Geep7 said:

 I won't mention any specific member's names or threads, but there were a few threads that I bookmarked and referred to quite a lot, due to my own modelling interest's, which I know sadly, will never have the images replaced if they are completely lost.

 

 

That's why, for pages I find really useful, I print the page (which may be many virtual pages) to PDF, that way I have an offline copy that is immune from any loss / changes to the original page.

[TravisM]

11 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

That's why, for pages I find really useful, I print the page (which may be many virtual pages) to PDF, that way I have an offline copy that is immune from any loss / changes to the original page.

 

I've never thought of doing that as I thought that invoked copyright.

[Geep7]

25 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

That's why, for pages I find really useful, I print the page (which may be many virtual pages) to PDF, that way I have an offline copy that is immune from any loss / changes to the original page.

I did save the odd photo here and there, but didn't think to do that..... In hindsight maybe I should have saved more, but then hindsight is only any good after the event.....

[Neil]

3 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

To my mind, RMweb is a web site and for convenience I call this a site. The site holds promotional material for its owners, announcements by model train manufacturers, diary information and public discussion; and the owners of the site accept payments from users for 'premium' levels of membership. Trying to break this service down into elements such as the sub-contractors responsible for particular aspects of the service such as provision of software and web hosting does not alter this.

 

If I hire a car and the thing conks out a few yards down the road, my business remains with the company I hired it from not the garage which forgot to put oil in the engine at the last service.

 

The root of the problem will always lie with the owners of RMweb - they choose how to run their business and their business decisions have put themselves and the users of their site where they are now.

 

It's not personal, it's business.

 

RMweb is not a car, it is an online community. Because of the size that it has become there's a need to attract funding which comes from adverts, Warners and members chipping in. It's still free for many and represents a fantastic online resource, not because of the commercial aspects but because of its knowledgeable and diverse membership. This otherwise unwieldy and unruly mob are corralled into a (usually) functioning whole by the efforts  of Andy and the team. It's disappointing when stuff gets lost but it's not as though this hasn't happened before when web servers have failed in the past. I'd suggest that it will be more productive not to apportion blame where none exists.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Neil

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

That's why, for pages I find really useful, I print the page (which may be many virtual pages) to PDF, that way I have an offline copy that is immune from any loss / changes to the original page.

 

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

 

I've never thought of doing that as I thought that invoked copyright.

If its for your own personal use its OK.

[47137]

So - I have make a post, intended to help or reassure another member of the site:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/171078-rmweb-change-of-hosting-missing-images-april-2022/?do=findComment&comment=4901593

 

Someone picked up on my use of one word ("site"), and less than a day later, a member who I have always respected to the highest degree seems to be slamming me down.

 

I am sorry for the obvious annoyance I have caused to all concerned. Please accept, this was not my intention. I will return to my blog, to rebuild it as well as I can, and I won't post here (on this topic) again unless someone asks me to. I hope this sounds fair.

 

- Richard.

Edited August 15, 2022 by 47137

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, 47137 said:

So - I have make a post, intended to help or reassure another member of the site:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/171078-rmweb-change-of-hosting-missing-images-april-2022/?do=findComment&comment=4901593

 

Someone picked up on my use of one word ("site"), and less than a day later, a member who I have always respected to the highest degree seems to be slamming me down.

 

I am sorry for the obvious annoyance I have caused to all concerned. Please accept, this was not my intention. I will return to my blog, to rebuild it as well as I can, and I won't post here (on this topic) again unless someone asks me to. I hope this sounds fair.

 

- Richard.

 

My apologies Richard, I realise that my words were a bit harsh (posted in haste) but I do get the pip when blame is apportioned in all the wrong places. 

[john new]

Time to bite the bullet and start the steady plod of reinstatement of as many of my own images as I can find.

 

As others have posted, the really sad thing is that IF this restitution process does not happen, and it is looking unlikely now, then images from inspirational posters who are no longer with us can never be reloaded. 

[MrWolf]

26 minutes ago, john new said:

Time to bite the bullet and start the steady plod of reinstatement of as many of my own images as I can find.

 

As others have posted, the really sad thing is that IF this restitution process does not happen, and it is looking unlikely now, then images from inspirational posters who are no longer with us can never be reloaded. 

 

Agreed on both counts, which was the point of my post early on Thursday morning which I got jumped on for.

Much has been lost, much has been saved and if this forum means as much to its members as they say it does then it's down to us to fill in the gaps wherever possible and make the efforts of those who have done so much to salvage RMWeb a little more worthwhile.

[BroadLeaves]

4 hours ago, jools1959 said:

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

That's why, for pages I find really useful, I print the page (which may be many virtual pages) to PDF, that way I have an offline copy that is immune from any loss / changes to the original page.

 

I've never thought of doing that as I thought that invoked copyright.

Allowed (but one copy only!) as per sections 3.2 & 3.3 of https://www.warnersgroup.co.uk/about-warners-group/terms-conditions/