Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[andyman7]

5 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I always presumed Hornby had their warehousing facility in Margate in the old factory unit, a massive building which they own and always seemed empty on the TV programme, so much so they had room for the “museum” which we saw proposed during the programme.

The Margate site is not suited to modern distribution logistics which is why the warehouse operation is elsewhere 

[Clearwater]

5 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

The Margate site is not suited to modern distribution logistics which is why the warehouse operation is elsewhere 

Barwell seems a much better location… central, good motorway links to all parts, road/rail connectivity to Far East trade ports.  Almost like they thought about where made sense to locate!

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Will inventory be higher if H are moving more into direct sales rather than quickly dispatching (and presumably being paid by) retailers?  I believe their franchise stock counts as inventory too doesn’t it?

However changes in the level of inventory have not moved in sync with the proportion of stuff they sell via direct sales.  In fact you could say the opposite has happened with a drop in total inventory in 2020/21 at a time when direct sales grew as a percentage of total sales (and it was a very good year for total sales).  In any event direct sales of model railway items - on Hornby's most recently published figures - had in any case subsequently declined.   Some of their other brands sell far higher percentages via direct sales than the model railway brand.

 

Incidentally as far as warehousing is concerned the previous management moved that out of house in 2014, followed later of course by their office move and consequent sale of the Margate site. 

 

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, Clearwater said:

Barwell seems a much better location… central, good motorway links to all parts, road/rail connectivity to Far East trade ports.  Almost like they thought about where made sense to locate!

Wasn't Barwell the UK base of Mainline/Palitoy before Bachmann came along?

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Wasn't Barwell the UK base of Mainline/Palitoy before Bachmann came along?

Or close to. Coalville I believe. I think the premises at Barwell is of relatively newer construction.  But yes,you’re close enough. Good access to motorway network as has been posted.

 

[Oldddudders]

Kent is a big county, and East Kent is thus a long way from anywhere, and most deliveries will require use of the M25 - when you reach it! The East Midlands seems a much better distribution centre to me - and is actually hardly any further from London!

[andyman7]

I seem to recall that the distribution centre is in Canterbury, which is well connected by the Motorway and trunk road network via the A2/M2 and an order of magnitude nearer than Margate. Most stock comes from abroad and I believe it is shipped via Thamesport (Medway) so that makes more sense.

[Robin Brasher]

I think that the conclusion of Hornby's tier saga is that if the customer wants a model the best way to get it is to pre-order it directly from Hornby and no-one in their right mind would pre-order a model without wanting it.

 

This contrasts with the situation in Hornby Dublo days when an SD6 wagon would appear in the Meccano Magazine at a reasonable price.  If you liked it and had enough pocket money you walked down to the nearest toy shop and bought it the following day. 

 

Buying Hornby models seemed a lot less stressful for the customer and the retailer in those days and adding to your collection of model railways is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.

[Ian Hargrave]

On 06/05/2022 at 09:55, Oldddudders said:

Kent is a big county, and East Kent is thus a long way from anywhere, and most deliveries will require use of the M25 - when you reach it! The East Midlands seems a much better distribution centre to me - and is actually hardly any further from London!

Good point. Access via adjacent motorway network to container ports in every direction ,in addition to the new facility at EMA just up the road.

[rembrow]

12 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I think that the conclusion of Hornby's tier saga is that if the customer wants a model the best way to get it is to pre-order it directly from Hornby and no-one in their right mind would pre-order a model without wanting it.

 

This contrasts with the situation in Hornby Dublo days when an SD6 wagon would appear in the Meccano Magazine at a reasonable price.  If you liked it and had enough pocket money you walked down to the nearest toy shop and bought it the following day. 

 

Buying Hornby models seemed a lot less stressful for the customer and the retailer in those days and adding to your collection of model railways is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.

I've now had my 4th Hornby retailer in the last 6 years, cease offering Hornby on pre order. My local model shop ceased, primarily due to the frustrations of Hornby's systems and stock being offered to a select retailer group, that undercut his stock price.(I'm good friends with the owner over 30 years of using them). Switched pre ordering to Hattons, and they were unable to supply as they went on to Hornby's naughty step, so switched to Rails, who fell out with Hornby, so switched to Kernow, who have now advised me that they will not be offering Hornby new items on pre order, due to the uncertainty of final stock allocation and price. So have decided not to bother pre ordering Hornby in the future. If items are sold out on delivery, so be it, I've just become so frustrated with Hornby's attempts to not sell to me, or force me to buy direct. I've reminded myself that this hobby is meant to be fun. There are many alternatives out there now, if you don't want a particular type of rolling stock. Having made this decision have pre ordered a 37 and 30 from Accurascale, via one of their retailers.

Edited May 7, 2022 by rembrow
Addition

[Pmorgancym]

On 04/05/2022 at 18:11, Phil Parker said:

 

Which is odd, since I'm sure I've read on a popular web forum, that we are in cahoots with the manufacturers...

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

Magazines review from the perspective of the average modeller not from that of a finescale modeller who will scratchbuild a loco to their own obsessively high standard.

 

No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers, it is only ever a minority who will be upset because x item is wrong.  The people who are overly critical also do their own homework and make their own mind up whether they will buy a model, they don't need to see a magazine review, they've already done it for themselves.

[The Stationmaster]

7 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

From what I heard it was the other way round and Hornby stopped supplying review models after something had been criticised in a review.  But some time H subsequently said they were ceasing to supply review models in order to save money.

[Roy Langridge]

14 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

There is naturally a fine balance between providing an impatial review whilst not offending the people who provide the reviews and pay for advertising. At the end of the day publishers are a business and have to maintain a relationship if they want to be able to review models before they hit the shops, have been reviewed online and the magazine review become less relevant. 
 

Personally I think the magazines generally get that balance about right, especially when considering their prime audience. 
 

Occasionally I feel they miss something, but whether that is that they just genuinely missed it or they actively chose not to criticise it, I don’t know, but I would favour the former. 
 

Roy

[Phatbob]

6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Magazines review from the perspective of the average modeller not from that of a finescale modeller who will scratchbuild a loco to their own obsessively high standard.

 

No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers, it is only ever a minority who will be upset because x item is wrong.  The people who are overly critical also do their own homework and make their own mind up whether they will buy a model, they don't need to see a magazine review, they've already done it for themselves.

While I agree with the essential point you're making here, which is entirely valid, I must challenge the statement that "No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers".  May I refer the right honerable gentleman to the original Hornby 4VEP, by way of example.  No windows and doors in the compartments is more than a minor error! 

[Roy Langridge]

3 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

While I agree with the essential point you're making here, which is entirely valid, I must challenge the statement that "No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers".  May I refer the right honerable gentleman to the original Hornby 4VEP, by way of example.  No windows and doors in the compartments is more than a minor error! 

Was it? I think many people who bought it would not notice. As for “these days”, the VEP was released 12 years ago. 
 

These days I believe that has been corrected. 
 

Roy

[Steamport Southport]

Wasn't the 4VEP part of the misguided "design clever" era though?

 

 

 

Jason

[Robin Brasher]

5 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Was it? I think many people who bought it would not notice. As for “these days”, the VEP was released 12 years ago. 
 

These days I believe that has been corrected. 
 

Roy

 My recollection is that the magazines did criticise Hornby for not putting windows in the corridor partition. Hornby Dublo has been putting windows in their corridor partitions since Hornby Dublo stopped making tinplate windows and Tri-ang also put windows in their corridor partitions.  The VEP was also difficult to dismantle.

 

One problem with the tier system is that you do not know what a model is going to be like until it arrives unless magazines give an honest review first.

 

Having said that you can get a refund if the model is not fit for purpose,

[Phil Parker]

49 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

 

Well, stop listening to whoever told you that, because they are talking rubbish about this, and probably everything else they say.

 

Samples have never been dependent on favourable reviews. Nor has advertising. After all, it's not like any of the manufacturers takes much advertising anyway. We might get moans in private but the value of several large pages of photos, even with a review picking up niggles, outweighs everything else.

 

 

[Phil Parker]

47 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Magazines review from the perspective of the average modeller not from that of a finescale modeller who will scratchbuild a loco to their own obsessively high standard.

 

No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers, it is only ever a minority who will be upset because x item is wrong.  The people who are overly critical also do their own homework and make their own mind up whether they will buy a model, they don't need to see a magazine review, they've already done it for themselves.

 

There is always someone who has devoted their life to a particular prototype and for them no model will be good enough. Even on RMweb there are calls for less detail. 

 

I've had discussions with manufacturers about the orientation of bolt heads on models. People contact them to criticise this aspect! 

 

Personally, I doubt there are many modellers whose layout is up to thd standard of any modern RTR. What there are are lots of people who enjoy being offended and moaning about it on social media. But they aren't the bulk of the market either for models or magazines. 

[woodenhead]

52 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

While I agree with the essential point you're making here, which is entirely valid, I must challenge the statement that "No manufacturer delivers complete dogs of models these days, all models are more than acceptable to most modellers".  May I refer the right honerable gentleman to the original Hornby 4VEP, by way of example.  No windows and doors in the compartments is more than a minor error! 

It's a minor error, it didn't make the model a complete dogs dinner, and as pointed out it was 12 years ago.

 

I had one, it didn't bother me.

[The Stationmaster]

37 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

It's a minor error, it didn't make the model a complete dogs dinner, and as pointed out it was 12 years ago.

 

I had one, it didn't bother me.

I didn't have one because it was in the wrong tier for me.  Oops, sorry I'm mixing up tiers with Regions or maybe eras or something else entirely?🤪

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Odd I seem to remember being told magazines tended not to be overly critical about manufacturers releases otherwise they wouldn't get review samples ;).

 

Other than being 'told' by someone who, in all probability, knows absolutely nothing beyond their fantasy world, where is your evidence?

[Pmorgancym]

Get told it constantly here when I say magazines should be more critical :)

 

I think reviewing is dead really, pre order culture means stuff is sold out mostly prior to review so it has no use from a consumer perspective, beyond simply allowing those of us who missed to boat or didn't have the £££ to enjoy the models vicariously through the reviewer. 

 

[Willie Whizz]

In which case “reputation” will be even more critical.