Hornby announce TT:120

[009 micro modeller]

6 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Class 66 and their similar Class 77 (the ones with the big aircon on the cab roof) seem to get everywhere

Not just in Europe - also in Egypt, and in Gabon, alongside rolling stock originally from Germany and France: https://www.railwaygazette.com/traction-and-rolling-stock/gabon-takes-delivery-of-refurbished-db-regio-coaches/44634.article

https://www.seat61.com/Gabon.htm
https://www.sinfin.net/railways/world/gabon.html

[GWR-fan]

A brave move by Hornby at a time of financial distress for the whole economy,  but the elephant in the room is will it be supported in years to come?  Is it a sound financial decision or something else for SK to sign off on his wishlist?   Without a major advertising campaign who will know of its existence?   Hornby states online sales only but surely major exposure in large department stores leading up to Christmas is warranted to launch the product (assuming sufficient stock actually exists).  

[Hroth]

4 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

A brave move by Hornby at a time of financial distress for the whole economy,  but the elephant in the room is will it be supported in years to come?  Is it a sound financial decision or something else for SK to sign off on his wishlist?   Without a major advertising campaign who will know of its existence?   Hornby states online sales only but surely major exposure in large department stores leading up to Christmas is warranted to launch the product (assuming sufficient stock actually exists).  

 

TT:120 has been gestating in the bowels of Hornby for years now and the launch date set in stone long before the Ukrainian Emergency and the antics of the new government turned everything upside down. They just had to go ahead now to try and capture some interest in the run up to this Christmas.By Xmas 23, if things go well we might see a boxed set or two of smaller locos and rolling stock as starter sets in the likes of Argos in place of the now high priced antique OO 0-4-0 offerings that currently lurk there.

 

The amount of TT:120 either almost ready to go to customers or due in mere months might also explain the backlog of OO items announced in January 2021 and 2022 as TT was pushed through in preference.

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for the information about how long it has taken for Hornby to develop TT 120. For my layout the World will be a 4' 6"  x 2' 6" baseboard which can fit in my car. Unfortunately I have got no idea of the radii of the curves or the lengths of the straight rails and points. I did access the information at the outset but I forgot to make a note of the dimensions so I could convert them to feet and inches or convert my board to millimetres.  Now I cannot find any information on the dimensions on the Hornby website. Perhaps there will be some information in the November Railway Modeller. I would be grateful for some help please.

 

[Johan DC]

9 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

... Unfortunately I have got no idea of the radii of the curves or the lengths of the straight rails and points. I did access the information at the outset but I forgot to make a note of the dimensions so I could convert them to feet and inches or convert my board to millimetres.  Now I cannot find any information on the dimensions on the Hornby website. Perhaps there will be some information in the November Railway Modeller. I would be grateful for some help please.

 

I think in the brochure you'll find this. P24-25

 

https://d63oxfkn1m8sf.cloudfront.net/7016/6513/9759/2022_Hornby_TT_Brochure_32pp_AW_ANALOGUE_WEB_OUTPUT_04_10_22_V2.pdf

 

 

[adb968008]

No Flexi-track ?

Edited October 13, 2022 by adb968008

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

No Flexi-track ?

 

Looks like Hornby are currently supplying the set track end, while Peco are doing flexitrack and eventually a wider range of pointwork. It seems sensible...

 

[Johann Marsbar]

8 hours ago, Les1952 said:

British Classes 86 and 87 are in use in Bulgaria (87s are called Class 85)  and sometimes border-hop where 25KV electrification extends past the frontier. Indeed Bulmarket are now overhauling their Class 86s and repainting them- there is a good variety of possible liveries available to sell into established markets should Hornby choose an 86 or 87.  I saw a pic in one of the European mags of an 86 on a train with a 66 coupled inside it.

 

 

 

They are still known as Class 87 in Bulgaria........

 

[Robin Brasher]

49 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

I think in the brochure you'll find this. P24-25

 

https://d63oxfkn1m8sf.cloudfront.net/7016/6513/9759/2022_Hornby_TT_Brochure_32pp_AW_ANALOGUE_WEB_OUTPUT_04_10_22_V2.pdf

 

 

Thank you for the information.  It looks like Hornby are using 4th radius curves in their train sets and the track mat is about 4'6" x 3'.  I think that I will need that space for a reasonably interesting layout. I will see if I can fit that in my car and if I can lift a layout that size. One of my N gauge layouts fits comfortably on a 4'6" x 2'6" baseboard.

 

[Nile]

10 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

It looks like Hornby are using 4th radius curves in their train sets

No, 2nd radius. Look at the train set contents list.(which turns out to be wrong, it should be 3rd radius).

Edited October 13, 2022 by Nile
correction

[APOLLO]

What radius number is the point ?

 

Brit15

[franciswilliamwebb]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

What radius number is the point ?

 

Brit15

It says it's 631mm, so that's a little less than 6th radius?

[spamcan61]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

  Without a major advertising campaign who will know of its existence?   

Although there isn't much in the way of detail in the WoR interview SK does state there will be (presumably very expensive)  advertising in the national press, specifically mentioning the likes of the Mail on Sunday.

 

Presumably the ads. can sit alongside the Flying Scotsman cuckoo clocks and Capo di Monte (showing my age..) figurines.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

No Flexi-track ?

Flexi-track too tricky for the stated "target market", perhaps?

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

16 hours ago, andyman7 said:

 

I would guess that the business case has involved all sorts of calculations on demographics, market penetration, distribution etc. There are over 28 million households in the UK. Hornby only need a tiny number of those to say 'yes' to a TT train set when 00 would be a no and they can significantly grow the market. Add in the possibility (finally) to sell UK trains to Germany and the US, markets that both have many users who are happy to run trains from different countries but not if they are made to a different scale.

How many house holds have walked away from buying little jonny his much wanted trainset because his loop of track an basic 0-4-0 was too big for the living room floor ?

 

And if this was such a huge percentage, how come that little 0-4-0 isnt the launch model in TT ? … it surely is afterall Hornbys best selling model ?

I dont think kids is the target market, if it were, playtrains being conveniently in TT would have made sense.

A4’s, Duchesses, Castle, King, 9f…. This is aimed at the same market as the 00 demographic… older, closer to retirement collectors, with others around the sides.

The same minimal thought and care shown to modern image OO modellers seems to apply to the TT range too as evident by the disjointed selection of “that’ll do” stuff… this range isnt going to grab the modern image market… and no credibility for showing a COLAS 66 listed as GBRF, one just hopes the 66 isnt just the “one size fits all” approach as used in OO.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

How many house holds have walked away from buying little jonny his much wanted trainset because his loop of track an basic 0-4-0 was too big for the living room floor ?

 

And if this was such a huge percentage, how come that little 0-4-0 isnt the launch model in TT ? … it surely is afterall Hornbys best selling model ?

I dont think kids is the target market, if it were, playtrains being conveniently in TT would have made sense.

A4’s, Duchesses, Castle, King, 9f…. This is aimed at the same market as the 00 demographic… older, closer to retirement collectors, with others around the sides.

The same minimal thought and care shown to modern image OO modellers seems to apply to the TT range too as evident by the disjointed selection of “that’ll do” stuff.

 

 

 

 

Certainly, if the junior beginner were being primarily targeted, I'd have expected at least one 0-6-0 tender loco to provide a small "train engine" that's easy to put (back) on the track without needing to use a railing ramp. 

 

I have my doubts as to how well "all the same stuff, but smaller" will play with collectors beyond the really dedicated Hornby completists, though.

 

What (for me) seems to be lacking, is anything that (size apart) brings something new to the table (top). Ready-ballasted track would have been an easy way to provide that at reasonable cost. 

 

John

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Certainly, if the junior beginner were being primarily targeted, I'd have expected at least one 0-6-0 tender loco (not just the 08) to provide a "train engine" that's easy to put (back) on the track without needing to use a railing ramp. 

 

I have my doubts as to how well "all the same stuff, but smaller" will play with collectors beyond the really dedicated Hornby completists, though.

 

John

I just think its Live Steam, or Zero1 myself.

 

interesting, gets a few sales and ends up in the back of the garage.

As soon as the prices rise the green shoots will die, leaving the hardie few who find it generally interesting and feast off the bargains.

 

European TT isnt very large, Roco and Piko between them havent got above 20 locos in their range, some of them are dog old, ok the Vectron is coming, but arguably thats the biggest thing on the continent right now, if it didnt stand up then the scale wouldnt have hope.

its nice, its niche but its not really pushing the boundaries of the hobby, its not compelling… its just a new alternative, thats repeating OO past glories and hopefully not its mistakes.

Edited October 13, 2022 by adb968008

[HonestTom]

15 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Flexi-track too tricky for the stated "target market", perhaps?

 

It seems to me that Peco are producing products aimed at modellers with some experience, like building kits and flexi-track, whereas Hornby are aiming at producing much more straight-out-of-the-box models (e.g. ready-made buildings, track packs for expanding train sets). I wonder if there was some discussion, formal or informal, between the two companies as to what was whose turf. It would make a certain amount of sense with a totally new market to take measures to avoid duplication.

[Robin Brasher]

21 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Certainly, if the junior beginner were being primarily targeted, I'd have expected at least one 0-6-0 tender loco to provide a small "train engine" that's easy to put (back) on the track without needing to use a railing ramp. 

 

I have my doubts as to how well "all the same stuff, but smaller" will play with collectors beyond the really dedicated Hornby completists, though.

 

What (for me) seems to be lacking, is anything that (size apart) brings anything new to the table (top). Ready-ballasted track would have been an easy way to provide that at reasonable cost. 

 

John

 

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

European TT isnt very large, Roco and Piko between them havent got above 20 locos in their range,

I think you need to look at the Tillig range there are pages of it, menus on the left  😉 

 

https://www.tillig.com/Lokomotiven.html

 

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I think you need to look at the Tillig range there are pages of it, menus on the left  😉 

 

https://www.tillig.com/Lokomotiven.html

 

1 swallow doesnt make a summer.

 

Yes 50 different locos, some duplicates, all the perennial German favourites.

Graham Farish used to be that n gauge equivalent.

 

It seems like Hornby has chosen to the UKs equivalent, but i’m not sure all the others are going to rush along side.

I assume similar metrics to OO apply to toolings… 6000 odd of a class to be economic… I await the TT Fell with great interest.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by adb968008

['CHARD]

37 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The same minimal thought and care shown to modern image OO modellers seems to apply to the TT range too as evident by the disjointed selection of “that’ll do” stuff… this range isnt going to grab the modern image market… and no credibility for showing a COLAS 66 listed as GBRF, one just hopes the 66 isnt just the “one size fits all” approach as used in OO.

 

 

I don't believe anyone has picked this detail up or at least mentioned it; SK's error when the diesels appear on screen, he refers to the 50s as 56s. 

 

What did strike me throughout was how unscripted it all felt, which whilst perhaps endearing for its lack of polish, also conveyed a sense of slight unpreparedness as 'big reveals' go.

[Gilbert]

From Heljan's FB page...

Heljan TT:120 Update

There’s been a lot of focus on TT 1:120 scale this week, and we’ve obviously been paying close attention to developments. We were gratified to see that our initial trio of locomotive choices for TT was so ‘on the money’ that all three also appeared in the Hornby range. C’est la vie, or Sådan er livet as we say in Danish.

Such duplication in a new and, so far, unknown market produces no winners, only losers. We were genuinely excited about the possibilities of this new scale but, in the circumstances, and with a heavy heart, we are ceasing development of our TT 1:120 model range. Instead we’ll focus all our energies on developing more exciting new OO and O gauge products (more on those soon!) and on supporting the crucial network of UK model railway retailers, who continue to be the backbone of the hobby and an essential resource for the modelling community.

We wish Hornby every success with their new venture and look forward to seeing how it develops.

TT:FN

Team Heljan

[Robin Brasher]

24 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Certainly, if the junior beginner were being primarily targeted, I'd have expected at least one 0-6-0 tender loco to provide a small "train engine" that's easy to put (back) on the track without needing to use a railing ramp. 

 

I have my doubts as to how well "all the same stuff, but smaller" will play with collectors beyond the really dedicated Hornby completists, though.

 

What (for me) seems to be lacking, is anything that (size apart) brings anything new to the table (top). Ready-ballasted track would have been an easy way to provide that at reasonable cost. 

 

John

Fleischmann made some ready ballasted track for 00 and N gauges and I used their track for my first N gauge layout. A lot of people liked their track.  The original Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang tracks were ready ballasted but the ballast had a dubious colour.  Tri-ang series 3 track did not have ballast and was cheaper to produce than ballasted track so most of the manufacturers followed Tri-ang's example. The foam ballast used to disintegrate and it takes ages for me to ballast track so I would like to have seen ready ballasted track.

 

[GWR-fan]

When I was a young teenager Tri-ang TT appealed to me (as did Minic Motorways) but it looked too toylike (not that the  "OO" model range was that realistic).  The planned TT120 release actually look like models and this will be a selling point.  Everything plus more to fit a smaller area.   If I had a good few more years left and felt assured the range would still be around then I could have been tempted (but unfortunately it seems more flash in the pan,  look the other way a nice shiny object).