Hornby announce TT:120

[HSB]

12 minutes ago, irishmail said:

It looks like that some of the coaches have bogie fitted couplings rather than body mounted KK couplings. Did Simon mention anything about  how the couplings are being fitted to the coaches, as when I emailed Hornby a couple of weeks ago I was told that they would be body mounted KK couplings. 

Thanks for sharing the pics.

Regards,   John

From the view from underneath they are not bogie-mounted. The mount is hidden between the sideframes in the side views.

[Robin Brasher]

Lovely pictures in JonnyUK's post. My view is that the mistake on the loco is not putting the 'Flying Scotsman' in the 'Scotsman' train set.

[jonnyuk]

From what I remember they are all frame mounted, Simon did mention the wheels are not the correct colour.

they brought out the class 66 towards mid day but I forgot to take pictures, bogie frames looks good on it.

 

I did ask Simon if they are tooling anything they don’t do in oo, his answer was no for now, also said they are up to phase 9 at the minute and planning for that.

Edited October 29, 2022 by jonnyuk

[HSB]

I'm disappointed that they're only putting a 6-pin DCC socket in the 08s, especially when you can get one in N with sound and their other locos have 18-pin sockets. The photos look very good but I won't be buying any locos until they're available with sound.

[MartinRS]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I do have some sympathy for manufacturers as feedback seems to be all over the place on level of detail.

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:

You can please some of the modellers all of the time, and all of the modellers some of the time, but you can not please all of the modellers all of the time.

[newbryford]

2 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:

You can please some of the modellers all of the time, and all of the modellers some of the time, but you can not please all of the modellers all of the time.  And there are some modellers you cannot please at any time.

 

There.

FIFY..

[Grovenor]

42 minutes ago, irishmail said:

It looks like that some of the coaches have bogie fitted couplings rather than body mounted KK couplings. Did Simon mention anything about  how the couplings are being fitted to the coaches, as when I emailed Hornby a couple of weeks ago I was told that they would be body mounted KK couplings. 

Thanks for sharing the pics.

Regards,   John

 

27 minutes ago, HSB said:

From the view from underneath they are not bogie-mounted. The mount is hidden between the sideframes in the side views.

The underneath view is of the LMS coaches, the side views of the MK1 and the pullman do give the impression that they are attached to the bogie. But the coaches on he demo layout, pullmans, certainly appeared to be close coupled. Looks like its wait and see.

[Taigatrommel]

24 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

 

The underneath view is of the LMS coaches,

The underneath view of the LMS coach clearly shows a close coupling mechanism on the end without a bogie attached.

[Hroth]

55 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

From what I remember they are all frame mounted, Simon did mention the wheels are not the correct colour.

they brought out the class 66 towards mid day but I forgot to take pictures, bogie frames looks good on it.

 

I did ask Simon if they are tooling anything they don’t do in oo, his answer was no for now, also said they are up to phase 9 at the minute and planning for that.

 

Phase 9 already???  🤪

 

So long as it isn't Plan 9...

 

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Willoughby Glen said:

Unfortunately for the liveries and time frame they are modellled too, shouldn't be there

 

I'm going to have to repaint my first 08 green so I prefer them there.....

 

I would have preferred the cabside numbers on the A3 and A4 to be a bit less yellow.  I'm going to Gaydon tomorrow so will mention it to SC- something to think about for future releases.

 

Anyone any idea where replacement nameplates might be sourced?

 

Les

 

[Flying Pig]

38 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

I'm going to have to repaint my first 08 green so I prefer them there.....

 

But probably not the cabinet for the air braking gubbins...  They have the tooling for several detail variations (see the engineering prototypes again) if only they can get the right combination delivered.

 

I really think a green 350 would have been a sensible choice for phase 1 since they have the tooling.  

[Jeff Smith]

49 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

I would have preferred the cabside numbers on the A3 and A4 to be a bit less yellow.  I'm going to Gaydon tomorrow so will mention it to SC- something to think about for future releases.

You might be right to mention it but a hint of black in a suitable clear varnish will tone it down!

[MartinRS]

3 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

I’ve had n scale before and to be honest it just p*ssed me off with how difficult it was to put stuff on the rails, to hook rolling stock together etc, the slightly larger scale really appeals to me.

 

I agree entierly which is why I will never return to N gauge.

3 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

simon did say (and he said it many times), this is not replace OO, never will and it’s not the intention, he kept going back to size constraints of OO in the modern world, uni students, folk in flats etc.

 

I'm not sure it will be SK who decides the future of model scales, even if he does run Hornby. If TT:120 is 'good enough' for someone constrained by the space available to create a layout, then why would they change when they have more room? It would mean having to sell what TT:120 rolling stock and purchasing replacement equipment in a larger scale. There will always be people who want to model the Shangrila & Utopia light Railway, which might only be available in OO. There is a vast amount of OO rolling stock out there with some pretty unusual prototypes being catered for by manufacturers. Heljan and Rails of Sheffield have just announced an ES1 for example. I think OO will carry on as the dominant modelled UK scale, but in the long term I think TT:120, if it can survive for three years or so, will become the go-to scale for most modellers. I don't see houses metamorphosing, tardis like, into larger properties !

I can see TT:120 becoming widespread if not the dominant scale because:

TT:120 offers more railway in the same area than OO;

 

TT:120 does not require the same level of dexterity to work with as N, which should appeal to both older and younger modellers;

 

modellers whose circumstances change (less space) are more likely to remain with the scale;

 

modellers will be able to create moderate size 'ease of access' layouts without duck-unders, such as U shape layouts with the ability to turn a track through 180 degrees on each section of baseboard, which will benefit older modellers;

 

collectors will have the chance to own 'one of everything' in the new UK TT:120 product line(s) potentially giving it an initial boost;

 

the new (to the UK) scale is emerging in a world where colour printers are ubiquitous and 3D printing exists, giving modellers and smaller 'just in time' manufacturers a chance to rapidly develop products, whether they be accessories or rolling stock;

 

there are established TT:120 manufacturers on the European mainland which means some level of support for items common to the UK and Europe will remain, irrespective of how well UK based companies fare.

 

 

My principle concern about the launch of TT:120 is the present economic climate, something outside the control of any company involved in making model railway equipment. UK retail sales are falling, even on foodstuff, which poses a threat to TT:120, a discretionary spend.

 

If Hornby miss the (Christmas) boat, both figuratively and literally then that could impact sales, especially as the pitch is to potential new modellers, with Christmas being the obvious time to introduce someone to railway modelling. I hope things work out for Hornby and the TT:120 range is a success and it gets here on time. I'm leaning more and more to the new (UK) scale. I've gone from deciding not to buy any more OO stock to deciding to dispose of it. (I will make a good Christmas present for a 'little person' in my life). I'm not at the stage yet where I will be ordering anything. Disappointing households by not having their 'big buy' in time for Christmas risks undermining SK's ambitions to get more people into modelling.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by MartinRS
formatting

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

From what I remember they are all frame mounted, Simon did mention the wheels are not the correct colour.

they brought out the class 66 towards mid day but I forgot to take pictures, bogie frames looks good on it.

 

I did ask Simon if they are tooling anything they don’t do in oo, his answer was no for now, also said they are up to phase 9 at the minute and planning for that.

 

Hmmm.

 

Which cannot be correct as they have never done a GWR 57XX....

 

And it's on Ze List

 

 

 

Jason

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Hmmm.

 

Which cannot be correct as they have never done a GWR 57XX....

 

And it's on Ze List

 

 

 

Jason

 

They have. You may quibble that it was technically an 8750 and quite inaccurate at that, but it was sold as a 57xx.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=6

[jjb1970]

I will have to wait to see the Hornby TT120 models in person to form a definitive opinion but looking at the pictures it looks like they have found a nice sweet spot and will be offering an excellent balance of cost, size and detail. 

Looking at this from Hornby's stated goal of growing the hobby by bringing in new converts I think they may well be onto something. I hope so.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

They have. You may quibble that it was technically an 8750 and quite inaccurate at that, but it was sold as a 57xx.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=6

 

And Hornby did (do?) the 2721 Pannier tank in OO, which was the immediate predecessor of the 57xx, even if their model was "approximate" too...

 

 http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=4010

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Hroth

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, MartinRS said:

 

I agree entierly which is why I will never return to N gauge.

 

I'm not sure it will be SK who decides the future of model scales, even if he does run Hornby. If TT:120 is 'good enough' for someone constrained by the space available to create a layout, then why would they change when they have more room? It would mean having to sell what TT:120 rolling stock and purchasing replacement equipment in a larger scale. There will always be people who want to model the Shangrila & Utopia light Railway, which might only be available in OO. There is a vast amount of OO rolling stock out there with some pretty unusual prototypes being catered for by manufacturers. Heljan and Rails of Sheffield have just announced an ES1 for example. I think OO will carry on as the dominant modelled UK scale, but in the long term I think TT:120, if it can survive for three years or so, will become the go-to scale for most modellers. I don't see houses metamorphosing, tardis like, into larger properties !

I can see TT:120 becoming widespread if not the dominant scale because:

TT:120 offers more railway in the same area than OO;

 

TT:120 does not require the same level of dexterity to work with as N, which should appeal to both older and younger modellers;

 

modellers whose circumstances change (less space) are more likely to remain with the scale;

 

modellers will be able to create moderate size 'ease of access' layouts without duck-unders, such as U shape layouts with the ability to turn a track through 180 degrees on each section of baseboard, which will benefit older modellers;

 

collectors will have the chance to own 'one of everything' in the new UK TT:120 product line(s) potentially giving it an initial boost;

 

the new (to the UK) scale is emerging in a world where colour printers are ubiquitous and 3D printing exists, giving modellers and smaller 'just in time' manufacturers a chance to rapidly develop products, whether they be accessories or rolling stock;

 

there are established TT:120 manufacturers on the European mainland which means some level of support for items common to the UK and Europe will remain, irrespective of how well UK based companies fare.

 

 

My principle concern about the launch of TT:120 is the present economic climate, something outside the control of any company involved in making model railway equipment. UK retail sales are falling, even on foodstuff, which poses a threat to TT:120, a discretionary spend.

 

If Hornby miss the (Christmas) boat, both figuratively and literally then that could impact sales, especially as the pitch is to potential new modellers, with Christmas being the obvious time to introduce someone to railway modelling. I hope things work out for Hornby and the TT:120 range is a success and it gets here on time. I'm leaning more and more to the new (UK) scale. I've gone from deciding not to buy any more OO stock to deciding to dispose of it. (I will make a good Christmas present for a 'little person' in my life). I'm not at the stage yet where I will be ordering anything. Disappointing households by not having their 'big buy' in time for Christmas risks undermining SK's ambitions to get more people into modelling.

 

The economic climate undoubtedly presents the most serious threat to Hornby's ambitions, but I hadn't even considered a possibility of the launch being delayed beyond Christmas. Would they have gone public with TT:120 had there been a real risk of that?

 

As you point out, were that to happen, it would throw a very big spanner in the works of SK's aim to get new people into the hobby and could push the window for "volume" sales back to Christmas 2023.

 

That might well put your "if it can survive for three years or so" in considerable doubt, let alone any idea of TT:120 ever dominating the hobby. For it to do that huge numbers of current modellers would have to abandon OO in its favour, not just have a dabble.

 

By no means all OO modellers have intolerable/unmanageable space issues and not all of us want "roundy-round" layouts. We all grumble that the odd extra foot would be handy but work around it creatively. Those who found that impossible, will have already switched to the likes of N or narrow gauge, or left the hobby altogether if none of the alternatives on offer appealed. All that said, any migration out of OO that has occurred among my acquaintances seems to have gone the other way, into 7mm scale. 

 

John

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[009 micro modeller]

11 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

the likes of N or narrow gauge

 

12 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

All that said, any migration out of OO that has occurred among my acquaintances seems to have gone the other way, into 7mm scale. 

 

And even in 016.5, 7mm NG can sometimes be done in a smaller space than 00 if almost all the stock is 4 wheeled.

 

That said, I think it’s a slightly different process. People who move up in scale seem to be those who now have extra space and money they didn’t have previously and would benefit from the increased size of the components, whereas the market that seems to be being targeted with TT is people who are less established in the hobby but have already found that 00 is too big.

[Hroth]

I've got representations of all the current "popular" scales; 2mm, 4mm and 7mm.  The 2mm one is a tiny roundy with what could be called "legacy" rolling stock and a more recent Dapol 57xx and B coach set. the 4mm is a garage layout, the 7mm layouts are a very freelance O-16.5 and an inglenook O with a Dapol class 08.

 

Being a glutton for punishment, I've actually ordered an "Easterner" TT:120 set as a Christmas present to myself and I'll see how it looks when I get it. What I'd like to see is some reasonably priced stock beyond what has already been announced to go with it.  A green 350hp (08) shunter, a Brush Type 2 and a DMU, say a 101, and I might be tempted to do a Minories layout, exactly as described in the April '57 Railway Modeller!

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Hroth

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Perhaps uniquely on RMweb, I am a big supporter of Hornby in general and SK in particular - the only thing is that I don't model or collect OO!

 

TT:120 does give me the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is and I am already thinking of ways I could use TT:120 to produce a new exhibition layout.

[philsandy]

13 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

Saw the range today at Gaydon. I have to say I was on the fence, looked interesting and could see the appeal but part of me thought, nope.

however seeing the range in person I’m sold, the loco’s are the perfect blend between detail and robustness, I picked them up and not once felt something would drop off, but at the same time enough separately fitted detail to look good.

I’ve had n scale before and to be honest it just p*ssed me off with how difficult it was to put stuff on the rails, to hook rolling stock together etc, the slightly larger scale really appeals to me.

with everything they have for launch would suit me, new era and location to model. Highlight for me though as to be the 08, stunning little loco.

 

simon did say (and he said it many times), this is not replace OO, never will and it’s not the intention, he kept going back to size constraints of OO in the modern world, uni students, folk in flats etc.

 

He did also the sets might be after Xmas now, they spotted a mistake on the Loco which they fixed but they missed the Christmas boat by a week, they are trying to fly them over.

also the OO hst pullmans are on the boat and be here for Xmas (makes me a happy bunny).

the smoke generating loco’s will be here in may.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking  very good going off your photos,. Did they have any of the locos running, if so how did they perform?

[APOLLO]

13 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

He did also the sets might be after Xmas now, they spotted a mistake on the Loco which they fixed but they missed the Christmas boat by a week, they are trying to fly them over.

 

 

So the Scotsman will fly at last !!!!

 

Brit15

[irishmail]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

I'm going to have to repaint my first 08 green so I prefer them there.....

 

I would have preferred the cabside numbers on the A3 and A4 to be a bit less yellow.  I'm going to Gaydon tomorrow so will mention it to SC- something to think about for future releases.

 

Anyone any idea where replacement nameplates might be sourced?

 

Les

 

Hi Les, if you can would you mind asking Simon if he can confirm if the production runs of the coaches will have body mounted kk couplings .  Thanks, John.

[jonhall]

48 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Perhaps uniquely on RMweb, I am a big supporter of Hornby in general and SK in particular - the only thing is that I don't model or collect OO!

 

I think there is an obvious correlation, you don't model UK prototype, so you are looking at superficially attractive models without knowing or caring if they have flaws, and you are not  trying to buy them, so you don't have issues with Hornby's erratic production and distribution policies. 

 

If you had 'skin in the game' you might well find yourself critical of Hornby and SK in particular!

 

Jon