Hornby announce TT:120

[Porfuera]

On 04/11/2022 at 08:36, MarkSG said:

That is, I think, going to be one of their biggest challenges. I have bought a couple of things directly from Hornby in the past, when the retailers had sold out but there was still stock available direct. But it's clear that they're not in the same league as, for example, Hattons and Rails when it comes to running an effective online retail operation. The turnaround was slower, the packaging was, to say the least, a little dubious, and one time they sent me somebody else's order as well as my own. And that, of course, prompted an exchange with customer service which was distinctly less than efficient. They will need to up their game if they want to sell direct only, otherwise they will simply lose sales as a result of dissatisfied customers.

 

This isn't an area I know much about but I don't think Hornby directly handle the mail order themselves.

 

When a TT:120 order is on it's way to me, the second email I receive is titled "Shipment Notification For Your Order" and comes from ccl-logistics.com, who I'm guessing are subcontracted by Hornby to handle things like warehousing, order processing and the packing and postage. Presumably they are also the ones responsible for things like the shipping of single orders in multiple packages and any overhead involved in that. The parcels seem to come from a place called Hersden, which is in Kent and not too far from Margate.

 

So possibly it was CCL Logistics that were responsible for the problems you experienced above, unless they have only come on the scene more recently. Although perhaps the initial contact with Customer Service may still be run directly by Hornby.

 

From their website CCL Logistics mission statement is as follows: "We provide an unrivalled range of logistics services and value added technology to help manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers and retailers simplify their supply chain, improve productivity and significantly reduce their overall cost of doing business."

 

I guess subcontracting this out saves Hornby money because it means that Hornby don't need to employ the people or commission the systems to do it themselves but if it isn't living up to customers' expectations then it is Hornby that will suffer any reputational fallout.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Porfuera

[MarkSG]

23 hours ago, Porfuera said:

When a TT:120 order is on it's way to me, the second email I receive is titled "Shipment Notification For Your Order" and comes from ccl-logistics.com, who I'm guessing are subcontracted by Hornby to handle things like warehousing, order processing and the packing and postage. Presumably they are also the ones responsible for things like the shipping of single orders in multiple packages and any overhead involved in that. The parcels seem to come from a place called Hersden, which is in Kent and not too far from Margate.

 

So possibly it was CCL Logistics that were responsible for the problems you experienced above, unless they have only come on the scene more recently. Although perhaps the initial contact with Customer Service may still be run directly by Hornby.

 

All of the emails (order confirmation and dispatch) related to my previous Hornby orders came from Hornby. No mention of CCL anywhere in the emails, even in the headers. So maybe this is an area where Hornby have learned their lesson and realised this isn't something they can reliably handle in house.

[meatloaf]

Has anyone tried an A3 / A4 on 1st radius curves? I want to build a small layout on a SMS baseboard - which at 600mm wide will just fit an oval of 1st radius.

 

I only really plan on using the 08 with a few wagons but will need to test the trackwork so will probs have to get an A3 / A4 to test with until the 08 arrives.

[Jeff Smith]

What aspect of the track would you want to test?  Hornby states the A4 min radius is second.  The bogie on mine comes off occasionally on third radius as supplied in the set.  When joining track just run your finger over the joint to ensure the joiners are properly engaged.  Electrical continuity is assumed to be ok with sectional track, if not extra feeds could be added as required once you've got your 08.

[J-Lewis]

The new issue of Hornby magazine lists a production schedule for TT120 that includes a few new confirmations?  There is mention of a GWR 57xx pannier 0-6-0 but no release date.  The class 50 seems delayed until end of next year.

 

 

[Railpassion]

These delivery schedules seem slow. Maybe an opportunity for a small rival to produce a couple of models 

[phil gollin]

.

 

So, if true, it would seem that Hornby have gone right off the Southern Region, both in 00 and TT gauges.

 

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[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

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So, if true, it would seem that Hornby have gone right off the Southern Region, both in 00 and TT gauges.

 

.

 

That's just the list that is on the website from the original announcement.

 

They virtually announced a Terrier in one of the videos and the Pullmans are SR ones and don't forget the Class 73.

 

As we've been saying from the start give them a chance. It's only been about seven months or so since the range was announced. 

 

 

Jason

[Les1952]

That list also fails to include the J94, which is somewhere in the pipeline..

 

Les

[Dava]

1 hour ago, J-Lewis said:

The new issue of Hornby magazine lists a production schedule for TT120 that includes a few new confirmations?  There is mention of a GWR 57xx pannier 0-6-0 but no release date.  The class 50 seems delayed until end of next year.

 

 

No J94 listed then? Lack of an 0-6-0T steam loco with any firm timescale makes TT 120 less attractive for the smaller layout I’m interested in building.

 

Dava

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

The new issue of Hornby magazine lists a production schedule for TT120 that includes a few new confirmations?  There is mention of a GWR 57xx pannier 0-6-0 but no release date.  The class 50 seems delayed until end of next year.

 

 

 

This doesn't seem right to me... nothing between Autumn 2023 and Winter 2024/2025?

 

Surely from what has been said in the TT Talk videos the Class 66 must be closer than 18+ months away...?

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

The new issue of Hornby magazine lists a production schedule for TT120 that includes a few new confirmations?  There is mention of a GWR 57xx pannier 0-6-0 but no release date.  The class 50 seems delayed until end of next year.

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Railpassion said:

These delivery schedules seem slow. Maybe an opportunity for a small rival to produce a couple of models 

looks like a 5 year plan to me…

3 a year.

[Geoffrey]

Can’t see TT lasting without some small tank engines. I think that once Simon goes they may quietly cut their losses.

[Chris116]

21 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

Can’t see TT lasting without some small tank engines. I think that once Simon goes they may quietly cut their losses.

The original Triang TT was pulled after the director whose pet project it was died. Looks like a similar fate could be in store for TT120 although I hope Simon will get to enjoy his retirement.

[andrewshimmin]

I think for some reason they just aren't announcing everything they're working on. We know there are more than one 0-6-0T in development already. Samples of Gresley teak carriages have been on display. So we know things are coming which aren't yet on the website. And these lists in the magazine don't tally with what's been said in various videos and emails from Hornby. So I think we all just need to relax and be patient.

[andrewshimmin]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey said:

Can’t see TT lasting without some small tank engines. I think that once Simon goes they may quietly cut their losses.

 

It seems very unlikely give they've sold as fast as they can produce them and they've got very large pre orders lined up.

The issues seem to be not being able to develop and manufacture fast enough to meet demand, not a lack of demand.

If it's profitable, they'll keep making it.

Whether it's sustainable in the long term only time will tell.

But just as RTR OO9 seemed like a fairytale ten years ago, and now seems to have firmly landed and to be a sustainable if niche market, I think TT120 will continue at some level or other if people continue to want to buy what Hornby produce.

I think the factors which make TT120 attractive aren't going to go away.

[Johan DC]

4 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

Can’t see TT lasting without some small tank engines. I think that once Simon goes they may quietly cut their losses.

Don't bury TT:120 before it's dead. Both the train sets are sold out (again). Personally, I think that's the reason they made the bundles. 

[friscopete]

They stab it with their steely blade but still cant kill the beast .

[J-Lewis]

A J94 would be the same wheelbase/chassis as the Class 08?  So it would make sense as a future release.  Unless the 08 has some kind of design issues that would prevent the removal of the plastic frames.

[Moxy]

20 minutes ago, J-Lewis said:

A J94 would be the same wheelbase/chassis as the Class 08?  So it would make sense as a future release.  Unless the 08 has some kind of design issues that would prevent the removal of the plastic frames.

 

The 08 is correctly outside framed, with extended cranks, the J94 is inside framed, so reusing the 08 wheels for the J94 will look ridiculous.  There may be some common ground in motors/gears perhaps, but I would hope we have moved on from 'one chassis fits all' and that each will have appropriate wheels & chassis detail for the relevant class.

 

Edit: Having checked, they're not the same. 

J94 4'3" wheels 11'0" w/base;

08 4'6" wheels 11'6" w/base.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Moxy
More info

[Legend]

17 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

The new issue of Hornby magazine lists a production schedule for TT120 that includes a few new confirmations?  There is mention of a GWR 57xx pannier 0-6-0 but no release date.  The class 50 seems delayed until end of next year.

 

 

 

These dates have gone out a lot . This is surprising . To maintain interest for those already committed and generate interest from others they really need a more rapid intoduction than this. Winter 2024/25 , at best 18 months away but more likely 2 years , the assumption being these "TBC" will follow .   And it is surprising , although I've just looked at the CAD images of the Princess Coronation in this months Hornby Mag and it does say release planned 2024 .

 

I fear Hornby are losing impetus.

 

I'm interested in the 37/47 then along with 08 and HST there maybe enough as a basis of a BR Blue Grey layout . This would be an additional layout to my OO one , but I'm certainly not committing until i see the trains and know availability 

[D9020 Nimbus]

The table is probably out of date,  but then it’s really just been drawn from the Hornby website. It doesn’t represent "new" information. Hornby could do more to keep people informed.

[andrewshimmin]

My perception is that Hornby is introducing things as fast as they can, but that they have been surprised by how long development of new products has taken (perhaps because it's a new scale and so is taking longer than new OO products) and that there have been severe delays to production. How much of the latter is just the general issues facing manufacturing at the moment, and how much is a deliberate slowing down to try to avoid the quality problems which the early products had I don't know. I suspect another element is that having over-promised they've now put very conservative dates in to make sure they can actually meet them. There do seem to be severe delays - more than Hornby themselves are expecting - with manufacture and shipping. The 08s have been a few weeks away for four months! Doesn't bother me as I don't want an 08 (got lots of Triang ones). But I hope there aren't more delays to the HST and the Duchess.

[Railpassion]

Will Bachmann enter the market? I think there's rewards if they do.

[andrewshimmin]

15 minutes ago, Railpassion said:

Will Bachmann enter the market? I think there's rewards if they do.

 

Bachmann already has several scales including OO9. I can't see that it would be a priority for them.

I can imagine it might work for other players but more for premium models.

What Hornby is doing is going for models they can sell in big numbers and so they can keep the prices down - they really are a good price for what they are compared to OO.

But I'm sure if it takes off big, others will join in.