Rapido OO Gauge GWR 44xx/45xx/4575 Small Prairie

[Dunsignalling]

15 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think what went where.  on the GWR/WR for works attention would look to the outside observer as the equivalent of someone wearing a blindfold sticking a pin in a list of works and sending the engine where the pin landed.  Hence you'd have an Old Oak pannirer passing through Swindon to get to Caerphilly works (to take a more extreme example).

 

Obviously in reality I suspect a lot depended on budgeted works throughput and available capacity as much, if not more, than it did on sending engines to the nearest factory.  However looking at the details in The Prairie Papers, No.3, the 44XX seem to have had a remarkably consistent shopping pattern (assuming the information is complete?).  So West of England engines wenr to Newton Abbot while the Wellington engines went to Stafford Road.  And the latter included engines subsequently transferred Wellington seemingly always being shopped at Stafford Road after arrival from elsewhere.

I'd think the decisive factor would be which Works could do the job soonest. At any given time some could be working almost flat-out while others might have capacity standing idle. The apparent illogicality of sending work to one distant from the home shed could help balance that out.

 

Getting locos back into traffic a.s.a.p. was important, as a shed short of one might need to rejig rosters or arrange a loaned engine to cover its absence.

 

John 

[The Johnster]

This is of course why boilers got swapped about.  A loco going into works needing a boiler overhaul as well as the other work will be ready for the boiler to be put back in in about three weeks, but the boiler it came in with won’t be ready for another two.  Rather than blocking the erecting shop bay for two weeks when no further work can be done to the rest of the loco, and to get it back onto traffic where it can generate revenue, an overhauled boiler is taken from stock and put on the loco, which is then returned to traffic.  The boiler it came in with is overhauled and put in stock, and will eventually find it’s way onto another loco.  
 

Some boilers could be exchanged in this way between different classes.  
 

Not sure that the loss of the loco from it’s home shed was a major consideration, as spares were allocated to big sheds and could be supplied to smaller sub-sheds.  The loss of revenue and the need for the loco to earn it’s keep were major considerations, though!

[The Stationmaster]

On 30/08/2023 at 11:07, Dunsignalling said:

I'd think the decisive factor would be which Works could do the job soonest. At any given time some could be working almost flat-out while others might have capacity standing idle. The apparent illogicality of sending work to one distant from the home shed could help balance that out.

 

Getting locos back into traffic a.s.a.p. was important, as a shed short of one might need to rejig rosters or arrange a loaned engine to cover its absence.

 

John 

A lot depended on providing continuous workload for each works rather than sending something  somewhere because a particular works was too busy.  In some respects it was almost the same thing but once the GWR changed to a system of shopping on the basis of loco, especially boiler, condition shopping was planned in advance and workload was no doubt duly budgetted.  Also the amount of work required would play a part in allocating the job to a particular works.

[Miss Prism]

bump (for @RapidoCorbs)

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Miss Prism

[RapidoCorbs]

On 26/08/2023 at 04:38, Miss Prism said:

 

Typo on that page - the sans-serif British Railways lined black should be 4409, and not 4404.

 

Cheers - The title's been fixed but the URL is more difficult to do without a redirect - will see if we can fix when we get a spare moment (hahaha oh how everyone laughed).

[Harlequin]

Hi @RapidoCorbs,

 

Can you tell us anything about the built-in speaker in the 44xx?

 

If it's a common 11*15mm sugar-cube will it have a decent-sized sealed enclosure behind it? And will that combined speaker assembly give the sound a clear path to the outside of the loco?

 

Thanks.

 

[RapidoCorbs]

On 07/10/2023 at 20:39, Harlequin said:

Hi @RapidoCorbs,

 

Can you tell us anything about the built-in speaker in the 44xx?

 

If it's a common 11*15mm sugar-cube will it have a decent-sized sealed enclosure behind it? And will that combined speaker assembly give the sound a clear path to the outside of the loco?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Hiya, yes that's correct on speaker size, it's located in the bunker and the sound comes out via the coal hole door and into the cab, then into your ears. It's the same method as used on a few of our other locos.

[Harlequin]

On 09/10/2023 at 15:40, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Hiya, yes that's correct on speaker size, it's located in the bunker and the sound comes out via the coal hole door and into the cab, then into your ears. It's the same method as used on a few of our other locos.

Thanks Corbs,

 

Sorry I haven't got any of your other locos so I don't know don't know how they are setup for sound.

 

You didn't mention the sealed enclosure behind the sugarcube. That is crucial to good sound reproduction, as you know. Can you confirm there is a sealed enclosure and anything about it's size?

 

Thanks again.

[RapidoCorbs]

I'll try to remember to look at the CAD, it's been pretty busy over the past few weeks so my desk/computer time has been a bit limited. I forgot to measure the enclosure size when I last had it open.

[gwrrob]

A brief glimpse of a running sample was seen at the end of today's announcement. Very striking in a red material indeed. Any chance of a proper photo please @RapidoCorbs

[gwrrob]

On 25/08/2023 at 12:32, rapidoandy said:

The models are in tooling right now and with a fair wind I am hopeful we will have them for display at Warley. 

 

Is this still a possibility @rapidoandy with Warley just a fortnight away now.

[RapidoCorbs]

21 hours ago, gwrrob said:

A brief glimpse of a running sample was seen at the end of today's announcement. Very striking in a red material indeed. Any chance of a proper photo please @RapidoCorbs

 

Sorry completely forgot to respond. We're reviewing them at the moment to send feedback to the factory but hope to have them on display at Warley (there are 3 samples).

[rprodgers]

On 10/11/2023 at 19:29, gwrrob said:

A brief glimpse of a running sample was seen at the end of today's announcement. Very striking in a red material indeed. Any chance of a proper photo please @RapidoCorbs

Not a proper photo but a couple of screen grabs.

Edited November 11, 2023 by rprodgers

[faulcon1]

On 26/11/2022 at 21:58, Madreddog said:

The even lower hanging fruit are the Metro tank and 517 class plus various classes of saddle-later-pannier tanks.

 

I shall be sticking with Bachmann whose model can be had for sub £60 secondhand. Given that Rapido appear to be avoiding using wiper pickups on their models and instead using the problematic split chassis that, as yet, no-one has made reliable on steam locos I won't be buying their locos.

I concur with what you say for although a 44xx is nice to see I'm completely baffled by the 45xx and 4575. Is the thinking we haven't had either of these in new tooling for some years now so lets do it. But there's very little wrong with the Bachmann model which performs very well and is highly detailed. A GW Saint would have been better as there hasn't been a Saint model since the tender drive version of many years ago. The Dapol/Hornby Hawksworth County certainly needs updating as that's very old tooling. I see no need to replace my Bachmann 45xx and 4575 just because a newer model comes along. But that's just me of course and I drive a 15 year old car and see no need to update that either.      

[faulcon1]

On 26/11/2022 at 21:58, Madreddog said:

The even lower hanging fruit are the Metro tank and 517 class plus various classes of saddle-later-pannier tanks.

 

I shall be sticking with Bachmann whose model can be had for sub £60 secondhand. Given that Rapido appear to be avoiding using wiper pickups on their models and instead using the problematic split chassis that, as yet, no-one has made reliable on steam locos I won't be buying their locos.

I concur with what you say for although a 44xx is nice to see I'm completely baffled by the 45xx and 4575. Is the thinking we haven't had either of these in new tooling for some years now so lets do it. But there's very little wrong with the Bachmann model which performs very well and is highly detailed. A GW Saint would have been better as there hasn't been a Saint model since the tender drive version of many years ago. The Dapol/Hornby Hawksworth County certainly needs updating as that's very old tooling. I see no need to replace my Bachmann 45xx and 4575 just because a newer model comes along. But that's just me of course and I drive a 15 year old car and see no need to update that either.      

[RapidoCorbs]

9 hours ago, faulcon1 said:

I concur with what you say for although a 44xx is nice to see I'm completely baffled by the 45xx and 4575. Is the thinking we haven't had either of these in new tooling for some years now so lets do it. But there's very little wrong with the Bachmann model which performs very well and is highly detailed. A GW Saint would have been better as there hasn't been a Saint model since the tender drive version of many years ago. The Dapol/Hornby Hawksworth County certainly needs updating as that's very old tooling. I see no need to replace my Bachmann 45xx and 4575 just because a newer model comes along. But that's just me of course and I drive a 15 year old car and see no need to update that either.      

Hopefully we'll be able to provide something new that the existing tooling doesn't cover in terms of the prairies, it just depends how well the 44xx sells.

[Captain Kernow]

On 18/11/2023 at 10:30, RapidoCorbs said:

Hopefully we'll be able to provide something new that the existing tooling doesn't cover in terms of the prairies, it just depends how well the 44xx sells.

I do wonder exactly what that 'something new' is, that you can't get with the Bachmann one, Corbs?

 

An easier conversion to EM or P4 would, however, be a 'vote winner' for the tiny percentage of your customer base who get their hair shirts from Marks & Spencer...

 

If, however, you're thinking of adding a realistic portly driver that waves at trainspotters or a fireman that can be seen cooking bacon and eggs on his shovel in the cab, then I think I'd still rather get my victuals from Tesco...

 

[Miss Prism]

28 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I do wonder exactly what that 'something new' is, that you can't get with the Bachmann one, Corbs?

 

I interpret this as chimneys, safety valve covers, cab shutters, etc.

 

[BenL]

14 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I interpret this as chimneys, safety valve covers, cab shutters, etc.

 

Yes, and the Bachmann version doesn’t cover the straight frame variety and I believe the type of boiler support frame in front of the tanks is correct only for the 4500, not the 4575.

[RapidoCorbs]

As far as I can tell the previous version of the 4500 tooling covers the final batch (curved frame, full length valance, outside steam pipes) rather than the earlier versions.

[phil-b259]

On 18/11/2023 at 01:11, faulcon1 said:

I concur with what you say for although a 44xx is nice to see I'm completely baffled by the 45xx and 4575. Is the thinking we haven't had either of these in new tooling for some years now so lets do it. But there's very little wrong with the Bachmann model which performs very well and is highly detailed. A GW Saint would have been better as there hasn't been a Saint model since the tender drive version of many years ago. The Dapol/Hornby Hawksworth County certainly needs updating as that's very old tooling. I see no need to replace my Bachmann 45xx and 4575 just because a newer model comes along. But that's just me of course and I drive a 15 year old car and see no need to update that either.      

It’s called capitalising on work already undertaken!

 

In design terms the amount of additional person hours needed to produce a 45XX / 4575 on top of that needed to produce a 44XX is pretty minimal when you consider the project overall as much of the research and some of the CADs can be used for all 3 models.

 

A saint (or any other loco for that matter requires starting again from scratch with none of that work able to utilise stuff being done for anything else.

 

And although there is nothing majorly wrong with Bachmann’s offering the basic fact is we live in something called a capitalist society and in such an economic model competition is encouraged as the way for businesses to prosper. Given Rapidos relative youth in company terms with respect to the UK model scene a small extra outlay on the 44XX project to create other very similar locos strikes me as a very sound business decision in terms of creating extra revenue with a minimum of outlay.

[Miss Prism]

There are common bits of course, but the 44 and 45 have different bodies and different chassis. I don't regard the extra work to produce one from the other is 'minimal'. Indeed, the complexity of the various tooling inserts to produce the features now being offered makes the overall task challenging.

 

With respect to a new Saint, it shares the same boiler as a Hall, Star, and Grange, so both Hornby and Bachmann have a defined amount of CAD that could be utilized/tweaked for Saint purposes if they were minded to pursue it. (I'm not suggesting they should, btw.)
 

[faulcon1]

6 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

It’s called capitalising on work already undertaken!

 

In design terms the amount of additional person hours needed to produce a 45XX / 4575 on top of that needed to produce a 44XX is pretty minimal when you consider the project overall as much of the research and some of the CADs can be used for all 3 models.

 

A saint (or any other loco for that matter requires starting again from scratch with none of that work able to utilise stuff being done for anything else.

 

And although there is nothing majorly wrong with Bachmann’s offering the basic fact is we live in something called a capitalist society and in such an economic model competition is encouraged as the way for businesses to prosper. Given Rapidos relative youth in company terms with respect to the UK model scene a small extra outlay on the 44XX project to create other very similar locos strikes me as a very sound business decision in terms of creating extra revenue with a minimum of outlay.

Be that as it may I still don't see the need to upgrade............yet. I hope all three locos are a great success for Rapido but I just don't buy the latest and greatest simply because it is the latest and greatest. It was the same with the Heljan class 25. Yes improved detail over the Bachmann class 25 but for me at least not a HUGE improvement to warrant spending money on it just because it's the latest and greatest. A capitalist society is the USA and the UK along with Australia are social democracies. The USA is capitalism on steroids and always had been. Social democracies take the best of socialism and capitalism and combine the two.        

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I interpret this as chimneys, safety valve covers, cab shutters, etc.

 

Does this mean that the Bachmann one is wrong for all eras in respect of the above or is the meaning that Rapido are be offering more choice and variety?

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Captain Kernow

[BenL]

50 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Does this mean that the Bachmann one is wrong for all eras in respect of the above or is the meaning that Rapido are be offering more choice and variety?

 

The latter, altho the boiler support frame in front of the tanks is wrong on all Bachmann’s 4575s, but not their 4500s

Edited November 20, 2023 by BenL