Rapido OO Gauge GWR 44xx/45xx/4575 Small Prairie

[Miss Prism]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I see you've gone with a black valance on 951005 - we were discussing this the other day.

 

Where?

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Where?

On your thread - 21 July. Focus was slightly more on lining styles but valances mentioned in passing.

 

[BenL]

7 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

The date given for 4406 in the G W R livery was 1943. It was pictured ex-works in BR black in 1953 (with small crest, later repainted) so my assumption is that it was in the G W R livery between 1942/43 and 1953.

 

Thanks very much for all the very helpful info in your reply Corwin.

 

I wonder if 4406 would have more likely been painted black rather than green in ‘43? As I’m sure you already know, the general practice recorded is that engines repainted between   Jan/Feb 42 and summer 45 were painted black (except Kings and Castles). There’s a GWR article about this - I can find the reference if you don’t have it.

[Miss Prism]

I wonder whether my For locos in green, the valance was painted green. is too simplistic for the beginning and end of the BR period.

 

Also, note the black valance on this late Newton 5562.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Miss Prism

[Fredo]

Hi ,

Saw the announcement yesterday. Any news on the 45xx and 4575 yet?

[sjrixon]

I've ordered 4402.. The full Great Western lettering gets me every time...

[checkrail]

1 hour ago, sjrixon said:

I've ordered 4402.. The full Great Western lettering gets me every time...

I'm also leaning towards 4402, especially now Rapido have confirmed that it won't have the Princetown branch flange-lubricator thingy. But AFAIK it will have the shirtbutton, not the full lettering.

 

John C.

[RapidoCorbs]

13 hours ago, BenL said:

Thanks very much for all the very helpful info in your reply Corwin.

 

I wonder if 4406 would have more likely been painted black rather than green in ‘43? As I’m sure you already know, the general practice recorded is that engines repainted between   Jan/Feb 42 and summer 45 were painted black (except Kings and Castles). There’s a GWR article about this - I can find the reference if you don’t have it.

 

Yes I wondered this too, but I can only say that I think it 'looked green' in the photo 😄 There is a later photo of 4406 at Wellington dated 21.6.47 where our conclusion was that there was a difference in tone between bits that we know are black and the tanks/boiler etc. but I can't make out the insignia to confirm it's G W R.

This is assuming that the date on the first photo was correct, after all. Previous to this, 4406 was ex-works in shirtbutton in 1938 and by 1950 was in lined BR black.

Edited August 26, 2023 by RapidoCorbs

[Clearwater]

Did the 44xx series work in the Midlands?  I can’t see any on an initial search on Warwickshire railways but would appreciate a view from the cognoscenti!

[RapidoCorbs]

7 hours ago, Clearwater said:

Did the 44xx series work in the Midlands?  I can’t see any on an initial search on Warwickshire railways but would appreciate a view from the cognoscenti!

 

Several were allocated to Wellington and Stafford Road over the years, there is a cracking pic of 4401 at Birmingham Snow Hill in BR Black.

Which era are you looking at?

[Clearwater]

3 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Several were allocated to Wellington and Stafford Road over the years, there is a cracking pic of 4401 at Birmingham Snow Hill in BR Black.

Which era are you looking at?

Thanks - most helpful.  My main focus is 1920s/30s though I'm elastic at the edges / not too rigid about it!

 

Yes - a quick google has found that photo.  Agree it's an excellent shot.  With what looks like the Birmingham suburban sets.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Clearwater
Addition

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

Thanks - most helpful.  My main focus is 1920s/30s though I'm elastic at the edges / not too rigid about it!

 

Yes - a quick google has found that photo.  Agree it's an excellent shot.  With what looks like the Birmingham suburban sets.

According to the RCTS there were none in the Wolverhampton Division until  the Wellington allocation in 1935 - which eventually saw 5 of them allocated to that shed.

[Miss Prism]

So what worked the Much Wenlock branch before those 44s arrived? (The cover of the Strathwood book, which I don't have, enticingly shows a 517.)

 

[Harlequin]

32 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

So what worked the Much Wenlock branch before those 44s arrived? (The cover of the Strathwood book, which I don't have, enticingly shows a 517.)

 

Yes, 517s and 645 / 655 Saddle/Pannier tanks for goods workings.

 

IIRC: They tried the direct replacement of the 517s with Collett 48xxs but for some reason they weren't good enough and that's when the 44xxs were drafted in.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Harlequin

[Captain Kernow]

I'll definitely get one if it's possible to easily separate loco body and chassis, just like a Bachmann model.

 

[Clearwater]

On 27/08/2023 at 13:14, The Stationmaster said:

According to the RCTS there were none in the Wolverhampton Division until  the Wellington allocation in 1935 - which eventually saw 5 of them allocated to that shed.

Thanks Mike.  Would the class generally have gone to WOlverhampton for overhauls?

[Captain Kernow]

On 27/08/2023 at 16:25, Captain Kernow said:

I'll definitely get one if it's possible to easily separate loco body and chassis, just like a Bachmann model.

Hi Rapido chaps - this isn't just a rhetorical statement, you know, despite my hitherto expressed misgivings, it should be read as a genuine question for you to answer, please!

 

[RapidoCorbs]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi Rapido chaps - this isn't just a rhetorical statement, you know, despite my hitherto expressed misgivings, it should be read as a genuine question for you to answer, please!

 

I know we're keen but it was bank holiday Monday yesterday ;)

Just looking at the CAD now and it's not a 'traditional' one-piece-body-bolts-to-chassis design. This is so that we can offer more variations by splitting the tooling up into different moulds (e.g. 2 running boards, 2 tank/cab combos etc.).

 

The running board is a separate component and attaches to the chassis, then things like the motion bracket, vacuum pump are attached to the running board. For this reason it's a 'chassis' component rather than part of the 'body'

 

The chassis is designed around a single solid metal internal structure to which the upper works attach. It is not a split/sandwich chassis as with the Hunslet. The motor has a flywheel fitted.

Pickup is via wipers as with the Jones Goods and Met E 0-4-4T.

Driving axles are 2mm diameter.

 

 

Hope that helps :) 

 

 

[Asterix2012]

31 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

I know we're keen but it was bank holiday Monday yesterday ;)

Just looking at the CAD now and it's not a 'traditional' one-piece-body-bolts-to-chassis design. This is so that we can offer more variations by splitting the tooling up into different moulds (e.g. 2 running boards, 2 tank/cab combos etc.).

 

The running board is a separate component and attaches to the chassis, then things like the motion bracket, vacuum pump are attached to the running board. For this reason it's a 'chassis' component rather than part of the 'body'

 

The chassis is designed around a single solid metal internal structure to which the upper works attach. It is not a split/sandwich chassis as with the Hunslet. The motor has a flywheel fitted.

Pickup is via wipers as with the Jones Goods and Met E 0-4-4T.

Driving axles are 2mm diameter.

 

 

Hope that helps :) 

 

 

Do you have an image you can share?

 

Might help with visualisation 

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

I know we're keen but it was bank holiday Monday yesterday 

So?!

 

I expect you to be sat at your high desks, ledgers open, quills ready, working all hours, to satisfy our demands and requirements, including Christmas Day, only one lump of coal for the fire, mind....

 

[NHY 581]

13 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So?!

 

I expect you to be sat at your high desks, ledgers open, quills ready, working all hours, to satisfy our demands and requirements, including Christmas Day, only one lump of coal for the fire, mind....

 

 

Bah ! Humbug !

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Clearwater said:

Thanks Mike.  Would the class generally have gone to WOlverhampton for overhauls?

I think what went where.  on the GWR/WR for works attention would look to the outside observer as the equivalent of someone wearing a blindfold sticking a pin in a list of works and sending the engine where the pin landed.  Hence you'd have an Old Oak pannirer passing through Swindon to get to Caerphilly works (to take a more extreme example).

 

Obviously in reality I suspect a lot depended on budgeted works throughput and available capacity as much, if not more, than it did on sending engines to the nearest factory.  However looking at the details in The Prairie Papers, No.3, the 44XX seem to have had a remarkably consistent shopping pattern (assuming the information is complete?).  So West of England engines wenr to Newton Abbot while the Wellington engines went to Stafford Road.  And the latter included engines subsequently transferred Wellington seemingly always being shopped at Stafford Road after arrival from elsewhere.

[rprodgers]

@RapidoCorbs could I make a plea that the GW middle chrome Green be matched as close to “Land Rover Deep Bronze Green“.

 

I am assuming the colour illustrations are not the final shade as both the GW ones look lacking in depth of colour-a bit pale.

 

We don’t want the GW 44xx matching Hornby’s GW green or Dapol’s GW green on their O gauge 48xx.

They possibly based their paint on a photo of a preserved, newly painted, in full sunlight GW locomotive.

[RapidoCorbs]

8 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Do you have an image you can share?

 

Might help with visualisation 

 

Closer to the time we should be able to show an exploded diagram. I believe that it should be possible to separate body and chassis with a few screws, providing that the conrod screw is undone (since the motion bracket and therefore the vac pump and slidebars are fixed to the body).

 

 

3 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

@RapidoCorbs could I make a plea that the GW middle chrome Green be matched as close to “Land Rover Deep Bronze Green“.

 

I am assuming the colour illustrations are not the final shade as both the GW ones look lacking in depth of colour-a bit pale.

 

We don’t want the GW 44xx matching Hornby’s GW green or Dapol’s GW green on their O gauge 48xx.

They possibly based their paint on a photo of a preserved, newly painted, in full sunlight GW locomotive.

 

The colour is from some 3D software rendered from a hex code so I would take with a pinch of salt. Playing with the roughness/light/spectral qualities of the colour in the rendering program can alter the perception of the colour a lot.

The colour will likely match our 16xx and the 'what if' GWR 15xx.

This is the same colour with different render settings/render engine, for example.

[Captain Kernow]

14 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

I believe that it should be possible to separate body and chassis with a few screws, providing that the conrod screw is undone (since the motion bracket and therefore the vac pump and slidebars are fixed to the body).

You knew that I was going to pick up on this, didn't you!