Rapido OO Gauge GWR B Set coaches

[Farang]

Another opportunity that Hornby missed.

[woodenhead]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The bogies will have to be phenomenal to be better than Hornby’s Collett 7’; if anyone can pull this trick off, it’s AC!

Well that's a pity, cos it 's Rapido who are producing this model not Accurascale.🤣

[woodenhead]

20 minutes ago, Farang said:

Another opportunity that Hornby missed.

Maybe not, expect an OO announcement in January and probably something in 3mm sometime in 2023.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

On 28/11/2022 at 07:39, Dunsignalling said:

I've noticed this kind of reaction before.

 

Some of them seem determined to find reasons not to buy things.

 

As one of my grandfathers used to say, "I wouldn't give a bu##er to be right"...😀

 

John

I already have four detailed Airfix (and successors) B-Sets, one converted to an E145, plus a K's E116 set. I can't justify buying four brand new sets but had an E147 been available I'd have bought at least one set and possibly two, with the second to be converted to singletons. I'm sure I'm not the only one in a similar situation.

[St Enodoc]

On 01/12/2022 at 10:24, Corbs said:

Smoking and No Smoking signs may need revision, I have done an approximation on the wartime livery but need to look into this more as style seems to have been all over the place depending on the actual coaches.

My understanding is that in each pair one first class compartment was for smokers and one for non-smokers. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

My understanding is that in each pair one first class compartment was for smokers and one for non-smokers. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I'm pretty sure that's correct, but I can't remember where I saw the information.

[Compound2632]

On 01/12/2022 at 22:44, rapidoandy said:

I think on this occasion they came from a private individual who like me collects works drawings 😀.

 

I very much hope that both of you have at the very least made provision that this material will ultimately be deposited in an archive accessible to the public.

[St Enodoc]

On 28/11/2022 at 23:14, Pteremy said:

Do you know whether the 'pivot point' had to be moved on the prototypes? I had interpreted the photographic evidence re bogie and coach end as the result of the additional 3 inches on the 'outer' half of the bogie.  Moving the centre of the bogie  inwards, together with the extra bogie length, might have had consequences for the positioning of the truss rods?

 

I am hoping that this is merely a consequence of the models/bogies used in your conversions. Like you I would rather have the E145 version so hoping it is a simple swap.

Russell Appendix 1 has a drawing on page 96 of a D109 (like the E140 60' BE with 7' bogies) showing the bogie centres at 46'3" and inner wheelbase 39'3", probably the same as an E140, and on page 152 a drawing of an E145 with bogie centres at 41'6" and inner wheelbase 32'6". In both cases the distance from the outer wheel centre to the headstock is 3'2¼". The photos of the E140 and E145 in the same book show clearly that the angle of the trusses on the E140 is more acute than on the E145. The length of the "straight" part in the middle looks to be much the same.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

My understanding is that in each pair one first class compartment was for smokers and one for non-smokers. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

And if so, did they have different upholstery? Likewise the thirds.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Well that's a pity, cos it 's Rapido who are producing this model not Accurascale.🤣

Good grief, another senior moment😱!

[KeithMacdonald]

6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The font originated in 1928 and later became pretty ubiquitous in the era of nationalised public transport but did the GWR ever use it?

 

See here

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

See here

 

 

Thanks.

 

Given than no contributor to that thread even mentioned the G-word, I'll take that as a "no". 😉

 

[Hal Nail]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

showing the bogie centres at 46'3" and inner wheelbase 39'3", probably the same as an E140, and on page 152 a drawing of an E145 with bogie centres at 41'6" and inner wheelbase 32'6". In both cases the distance from the outer wheel centre to the headstock is 3'2¼".

does this add up? as already pointed out if the outerwheel to end is the same, which it appears to be in photos, the bogie centre to centre would only be 2 foot different. c41 to c46 doesn't stack up?

[GWR8700]

Very excited by this!

Glad they have chosen something suitable for Bodmin too

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Thanks.

Given than no contributor to that thread even mentioned the G-word, I'll take that as a "no". 😉

 

Oh dear!

 

How about here?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-nameplate-letters-and-font.67722/

The contributor mentions a TruType font called Swindon Egyptian

 

Or

https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/9291/gwr-nameplate-font

Where they say (after some chat) it's Egyptian Serif

[Dunsignalling]

My query related solely to Gill Sans, which seems to have been used by the GWS on a preserved coach pictured in an earlier post, but apparently not by the GWR on vehicles in service.

 

John

Edited December 6, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Harlequin]

14 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Oh dear!

 

How about here?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-nameplate-letters-and-font.67722/

The contributor mentions a TruType font called Swindon Egyptian

 

Or

https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/9291/gwr-nameplate-font

Where they say (after some chat) it's Egyptian Serif

"Egyptian" is just a typographic term for a slab serif font: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_serif

The GWR took inspiration from lettering styles that were around but they adapted them to suit themselves, for good technical reasons in many cases. For instance, so that they could be cast in iron! So any modern font is unlikely to match unless it has been based on the GWR designs.

 

Swindon Egyptian is derived from the outlines published in the HMRS' "Great Western Way", as I understand it. It's specific to the cast nameplates and numberplates used on locos. Nothing to do with Gill Sans.

 

I have developed a font based on the Signal box nameplate lettering designs (see my signature). That has several characteristic features which seem to be largely down to the realities and costs of casting, again. Still nothing to do with Gill Sans.

 

The lettering that Corbs is working on, is based on Gill Sans but again the GWR seems to have tweaked certain characters for some reason - this time probably purely aesthetic. The long-tailed Rs of Gill Sans do look a bit odd when the font is used in an all caps title.

 

[Corbs]

For a little update this is a version based on the photo of the preserved vehicle. Pending further refinement from period photos/diagrams.

All the letters have been re-drawn, this is no longer adapted from BR Gill Sans. The G, R, W and S are distinctly different.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Corbs

[57xx]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Oh dear!

 

How about here?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-nameplate-letters-and-font.67722/

The contributor mentions a TruType font called Swindon Egyptian

 

Or

https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/9291/gwr-nameplate-font

Where they say (after some chat) it's Egyptian Serif

 

Egyptian Serif is not a font, this is a myth being perpetuated on the Internet. It's a group of typefaces that have a slab style serif.

 

 

[Harlequin]

Here's the best period photo I can find (fig 161 from Russell Coaches Appendix 2):

 

It looks very close to Gill Sans. It's not an exact match but the long tailed R is highly suggestive.

 

Using Gill Sans and modifying the R and the G I get this:

 

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Here's the best period photo I can find (fig 161 from Russell Coaches Appendix 2):

 

It looks very close to Gill Sans. It's not an exact match but the long tailed R is highly suggestive.

 

Using Gill Sans and modifying the R and the G I get this:

 

That lettering looks subtly different to that in the photo of the preserved coach. Slightly more  "chunky", perhaps, or is it the background shade that sets the two apart?

Edited December 6, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[KeithMacdonald]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

Egyptian Serif is not a font, this is a myth being perpetuated on the Internet. It's a group of typefaces that have a slab style serif.

 

You feedback is more effective here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-nameplate-letters-and-font.67722/

Please proceed forthwith.

[County of Yorkshire]

On 30/11/2022 at 23:27, County of Yorkshire said:

Somewhere, I’m very sure I’ve got a picture of an original GWR WW2 coach brown paint swatch from Didcot’s collection. Perhaps @K14 of this parish might be able to comment? 

 

Here you go @Corbs and @The Fatadder

 

Its taken me a week of trawling my archived image files, but here we are...

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by County of Yorkshire

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

does this add up? as already pointed out if the outerwheel to end is the same, which it appears to be in photos, the bogie centre to centre would only be 2 foot different. c41 to c46 doesn't stack up?

No, it doesn't look right does it! I'll double check next time I can get the book out. Thanks.

[Corbs]

@County of Yorkshirethank you for sending that over, very helpful.

 

I've been speaking to the boss this morning and we are looking at adding some more options to the initial production run.

These are the proposed ones, they haven't been sent off yet but I wanted to share in case there were any howlers.

As discussed, some points around typeface etc. need updating.

 

6453 + 6454 - Kingsbridge Branch No.2 - Wartime brown with orange lining

(from photos)

 

6409 + 6410 - No allocation lettering - Wartime brown with orange lining

(no photo, number picked from list)

6895 + 6894 - Kingham Branch - GREAT (coat of arms) WESTERN post war, double lined, 7" strip above doors

(from photo)

W6999 + W7000 - BR(W) chocolate and cream (post war GW with no GW branding and W prefix)

(no photo, number picked from list, based on photo of other set)

 

 

In addition to this, 946002 will likely change to 6523 + 6524 as Richard H has found a photo of these coaches in the double lined inter-war livery, so it makes more sense to use the running numbers for which there is photo evidence.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Corbs