KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[adb968008]

40445 isnt without precedence…

 

In 1992 it actually ran a recreated redbank parcels, and featured a radio aerial, and eth cables on the nose.

Edited August 26, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

On 23/08/2023 at 12:53, HExpressD said:

Quite a lot of manufacturers do this to be fair, it isn't just KR, only a small handful design in the UK, and they tend to be the more established brands as far as I'm aware. Of course, you don't have to actually have ever seen a locomotive to design it well, but it'll all depend on how good the input of the people who have seen one is during design reviews!

Ah you sure? I must admit that I can't think of many other 4mm scale British based companies that doesn't do design at least to  CAD level other than. those who place the work out on a commission basis with one of those other British based 'manufacturers'.   Locomotion/Rails joint projects are researched in house but CAD work goes to one of the other companies AFAIK.

Revolution definitely do their research in house and and even if the do or don't do their CAD design work in house they are very obviously are deelply involved in it.

I don't know about Dapol but i suspect at least some of their CAD work is done in house and they certainly don't seem to lack when it comes to research and checking CADs.  Even Kernow now seem to be doing some design and CAD work in-house and in any case they have always been involved in CAD development for their own label models.  And all the others - Hornby, Bachmann, Accurascale, and Rapido do their research and CAD design work in house.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Im of the same view regarding acquiring a good EE Type 4 model and had even thought about ordering one of the new Bachmann releases, but don’t like the way the body sits so far above the fronts of the bogies, and thus haven’t. 
 

These look ok to me, barring correction of some details - so I’m going to wait and see what they’re like at the next stage before deciding - a bit early in the process, @The Stationmaster to be writing this off in my view. 
 

 

You're correct - I am writing it off almost entirelty as a consequenceof what we have seen in the past with various of their models and their apparent deafness and  blindness when glaring errors are pointed out to them and never corrected.

 

The EE Type 4 is a difficult loco to get right - one of the reasons being the one you mentioned - and unless it 'sits right' it will never get the feel of the real thing plus the subrlty in the noxe shape.  If they can't even get the springing assembly detail right in the very early part of CAD work it suggests to me that insufficient attention is being paid to very obvious details  which affect the overall appearance.  So I'm not hopeful.

 

However the buffers and buffer housings do look quite good.

[JSpencer]

Another update:

"The pictures below (renderings we saw posted earlier in the thread)  are  artistes renditions are not the final model. Changes have already been made regarding details."

 

"Tooling is underway now and we expect to deliver this model in the 1st QTR of 2025 (this is subject to change)."

[97406]

Ideally the mockups should have been closer to the finished design which is what I need to see before placing any order. Failing that, at least post any caveats up front, not after loads of potential buyers have picked it apart.

 

I will still watch it develop with interest.

[The Stationmaster]

9 minutes ago, 97406 said:

Ideally the mockups should have been closer to the finished design which is what I need to see before placing any order. Failing that, at least post any caveats up front, not after loads of potential buyers have picked it apart.

 

I will still watch it develop with interest.

It will be interesting to see if they fix the very obvious error in the cantrail curve which is way off.  

 

I'm not quite sure what an 'artists renditions' are - does it mean the whole thing was done by 'an artist' or does it mean that the colouring was done by 'an artisr'?   (I thought - perhaps incorrectly? - that renders were normally done using the CAD as a starting point and then adding the colour and decoration details on a computer.)

[97406]

11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It will be interesting to see if they fix the very obvious error in the cantrail curve which is way off.  

 

I'm not quite sure what an 'artists renditions' are - does it mean the whole thing was done by 'an artist' or does it mean that the colouring was done by 'an artisr'?   (I thought - perhaps incorrectly? - that renders were normally done using the CAD as a starting point and then adding the colour and decoration details on a computer.)

I always thought the CAD was the master used for everything, from deriving the artworks, identifying and rectifying any detail issues, creating 3D test prints of the model and making the tooling.

[stovepipe]

9 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Another update:

"The pictures below (renderings we saw posted earlier in the thread)  are  artistes renditions are not the final model. Changes have already been made regarding details."

 

"Tooling is underway now and we expect to deliver this model in the 1st QTR of 2025 (this is subject to change)."

So KR expect people to pay up front for something they’ve already changed, but aren’t actually going to show you in what way? The renditions they *have* shown are wildly inaccurate. Who in their right minds would actually be tempted to order on this basis?

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by stovepipe

[Michael Hodgson]

27 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 Who in their right minds would actually be tempted to order on this basis?

 

probably enough !

[GWR-fan]

Once again the rush to the tooling stage without any evidence that the design work is finished.  Is there really so much demand for another class 40 or is the company confident that based on previous models that they have released that demand will be there?    Time for actual professionals on the payroll.

[PieGuyRob]

https://youtu.be/2mPWc7iM9uA?si=DUhtwLnPyEqE7qa4

 

At 02:56 is the ultimate model of a class 40. Accurascale, Lima, Hornby, Joeuf, and KRModels will not better it.

[jjb1970]

Making a model because it is the proprietors favourite strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing to do, in fact that is one of the few things that gives me any positive thoughts about KR Models. Unfortunately the Class 40 looks like it needs a lot of work to get near the Bachmann model let along beat it. With the exception of the high riding body the Bachmann model is still very good and as with most Bachmann models it make for a good working layout model. Solid performance and robust build which can take some manual handling and the odd crash without bits flying off here there and everywhere.

[97406]

41 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Making a model because it is the proprietors favourite strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing to do, in fact that is one of the few things that gives me any positive thoughts about KR Models. Unfortunately the Class 40 looks like it needs a lot of work to get near the Bachmann model let along beat it. With the exception of the high riding body the Bachmann model is still very good and as with most Bachmann models it make for a good working layout model. Solid performance and robust build which can take some manual handling and the odd crash without bits flying off here there and everywhere.

 

There’s going to be a couple more Bachmann examples going through my works to be lowered, Shawplan screens installed and the chassis detail adding. I’m currently toying with ways of getting rid of those overscale bogie jumpers and replacing them with their 4mm counterparts. Class 58 MW jumpers look close so will try and make a mould off them.

 

Once fettled, the Bachmann model looks great, so it is possible to get a highly accurate Whistler now until Bachmann retool theirs, Accurascale do one, or if the KR one turns out good. I need to see more being done with the latter as I’m not encouraged at this stage, but will stay tuned just in case.

[Michael Hodgson]

8 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

https://youtu.be/2mPWc7iM9uA?si=DUhtwLnPyEqE7qa4

 

At 02:56 is the ultimate model of a class 40. Accurascale, Lima, Hornby, Joeuf, and KRModels will not better it.

That video includes a good clip showing the Anglo Scottish car carriers too

[JSpencer]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Making a model because it is the proprietors favourite strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing to do, in fact that is one of the few things that gives me any positive thoughts about KR Models. Unfortunately the Class 40 looks like it needs a lot of work to get near the Bachmann model let along beat it. With the exception of the high riding body the Bachmann model is still very good and as with most Bachmann models it make for a good working layout model. Solid performance and robust build which can take some manual handling and the odd crash without bits flying off here there and everywhere.

 

You also have Bachmann after sales support which goes on for years, even decades into the future. 

Though TBH, I have so many models now (and so many projected to come), if one wears out, it is not really a loss anymore. It just gets retired like the prototype.

[ThaneofFife]

is another class 40 in 00 gauge really needed, what with the fairly recent retooled Bachmann models?

[jjb1970]

For BR diesel locomotives I think we're now in a situation where most of them have been done extremely well and further releases are unlikely to be necessary unless there's another major change to power and control such as radio controlled battery power or something.

 

The latest Bachmann Class 47 is superb but I feel no need to replace the older models. The latest Bachmann and Accurascale Class 37 models are superb but again I really don't feel any need to replace the older Bachmann examples. We look like being spoiled for Class 25's. The new Accurascale Class 31 looks to be a definite advance over the Hornby model but the Hornby model is still a pretty good model, ditto with the Class 50. If anything I think that the Heljan Class 45 is a step behind the Bachmann model overall despite being ahead in some areas (and I'd be quite happy with the Heljan model).

 

The exception os the Accurascale Deltic, but I think that will be seen as an exception rather than as a rule and it is increasingly difficult for new models to move the game on enough to make me feel it worth replacing older examples I already have.

[97406]

43 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

is another class 40 in 00 gauge really needed, what with the fairly recent retooled Bachmann models?

See my post above. Bit basic out the box.

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

is another class 40 in 00 gauge really needed, what with the fairly recent retooled Bachmann models?

 

I did a post on a Bachmann 40 thread showing some areas where Lima is better than Bachmann. So the argument for a better 40 is sound enough. The issue is, KR *probably* do not have enough experience yet to do something better than Bachmann. But we could still be surprised. If the class 40 group have real voice and know how to cast a critical eye on a model, then there is hope.

 

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

The latest Bachmann Class 47 is superb but I feel no need to replace the older models. The latest Bachmann and Accurascale Class 37 models are superb but again I really don't feel any need to replace the older Bachmann examples. We look like being spoiled for Class 25's. The new Accurascale Class 31 looks to be a definite advance over the Hornby model but the Hornby model is still a pretty good model, ditto with the Class 50. If anything I think that the Heljan Class 45 is a step behind the Bachmann model overall despite being ahead in some areas (and I'd be quite happy with the Heljan model).

 

 

Indeed, my new 37, 47 and even 55 supplement the older Bachmann models which are working fine.

 

However 20 years back, I used to say the same thing about modern super detailed stuff. They would supplement the older Lima ones (well not the 55 I suppose) and for steam locos, older Hornby/Bachmann/Mainline/Airfix.

However almost everything prior to 2000 has been either sold on or retired.

 

So does that mean I will be replacing the older super detailed models at some in the future? Almost certainly not. The first generation of super detailed models were not much expensive than the models they replaced. Moreover, they were vastly superior as 50+ part models were replaced by 200+ part models. However the new generation of super detailed models are 3/4 times the price I paid for the 1st generation and from 3 ft away, the two look fine side by side with almost identical running characteristics.

 

Equally - with so many new offerings or new classes coming out each year, I tend to focus on classes I do not have rather than ones I do.

 

 

[jjb1970]

I would offer a cautionary note from the world of Chinese HO RTR. Chinese producers seem to indulge their designers when it comes to stuff made for the domestic market and go overboard on detail. There has been something of an arms race mentality, the result has been many exquisite models with remarkable levels of detail and finish but which give people anxiety trying to remove them from the box, handling them and searching for bits which drop off with normal handling and use. And in reality they could pull back a bit and get a model more suited for layout operation which wouldn't lose anything in the looks department. I thought this was true for the Accurascale Deltic, as a running model I actually prefer the Bachmann model even though it's clearly inferior in terms of appearance and detail.

[The Ghost of IKB]

3 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

is another class 40 in 00 gauge really needed, what with the fairly recent retooled Bachmann models?

Yes.

Bachmann model is OK but basic and expensive for what it is. 

Bogies, screens, roof, glazing, interior detail sound set up all need improvement .

I desperately hope that accurascale will announce one soon.

[Michael Hodgson]

55 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I would offer a cautionary note from the world of Chinese HO RTR. Chinese producers seem to indulge their designers when it comes to stuff made for the domestic market and go overboard on detail. There has been something of an arms race mentality, the result has been many exquisite models with remarkable levels of detail and finish but which give people anxiety trying to remove them from the box, handling them and searching for bits which drop off with normal handling and use. And in reality they could pull back a bit and get a model more suited for layout operation which wouldn't lose anything in the looks department. I thought this was true for the Accurascale Deltic, as a running model I actually prefer the Bachmann model even though it's clearly inferior in terms of appearance and detail.

If they're produced primarily for the domestic market, it's really a question of what that market wants - which might conceivably differ from what you want.

[Michael Hodgson]

4 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Yes.

Bachmann model is OK but basic and expensive for what it is. 

Bogies, screens, roof, glazing, interior detail sound set up all need improvement .

I desperately hope that accurascale will announce one soon.

So you want Accurascale as well as KR to produce one ?

[jjb1970]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If they're produced primarily for the domestic market, it's really a question of what that market wants - which might conceivably differ from what you want.

 

No doubt true, but looking at Chinese modeller comments they tend to share concerns that models have become too fragile for layout operation and there are a lot of complaints about new models delivered with detached parts etc. Some of the models are no doubt bought as display case items where it's not an issue, factory finished brass still has a following in China.

[The Ghost of IKB]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

So you want Accurascale as well as KR to produce one ?

No.  Just accura.

I have faith in them to deliver a top model, after all they have a track record of doing things right.