KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[Ed-farms]

On 15/05/2023 at 14:08, Ian Hargrave said:

He seems to be hell bent on alienating an entire client group rather than encouraging a constructive dialogue.Not good.

 

They made a quote once about N Gauge modellers having "short arms and deep pockets" which has soured some if not all the N gauge community towards them. Certainly enough for them to turn their back on N gauge as they got little or no interest in the few projects they did attempt

[Roy Langridge]

3 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I do worry we’re in danger of talking KR out of so many sales by all the negative comments here - surely we should wait and see their proposals?? 

I am not sure it is the talking that we do that costs sales…

 

For me, it is performance that is delaying me placing an order. I am more than happy to purchase from KR when I am confident that the model will meet my expectations. 
 

Roy

 

[JSpencer]

On 17/05/2023 at 16:36, MidlandRed said:

I wouldn’t say the Fell is a bad model - it has detail errors (particularly on one side) and a potential issue with coupling rods (people on here had pointed out the side issues and have got annoyed because they didn’t get corrected in the production version) but given there’s no opportunity to laser scan a non existent prototype, the shape pretty much looks like a Fell to me. And the same for GT3.

 

 

The biggest problem with the Fell is the roof which is mirrored left to right. On the prototype it was mirrored on both axis, i'e left to right and then mirrored again on one side, back to front (or front to back). This in turn screws up one side and the problem is further compounded with one side matching later body panels (particularly on the nose) and the other matching early day side panels. The later panels work for both BR black early crest and later BR green (useful, if you want to save costs tooling up 2 bodies).

The early panel side is also the one with the wrong roof positioning. 

The coupling rod issue happens in one direction and not the other. Fortunately the roof error allows me to determine which direction I should run the model in, in order to avoid that. (the two big rectangle dips on the roof sides should be towards the back when running). 

 

If those issues are addressed, it will be as good as the GT3 which I rather enjoy with it's gas turbine sound chip. 

 

The class 40 has big expert fan following and (as I said before) some tough competition to beat. This will be an expensive and huge challenge that I'd leave for players with the huge financial resources to face it. Bachmann spent £1 Million tooling up the 47, and a 40 won't be short of that IF you want to beat the current 40 on the market today. Heljan are doing an all new 47 at the same time, they "may" have spent less and it seems to be a tough challenge to match Bachmann despite their decades of experience in the UK market... 

I feel KR are biting more they can chew right now and would do better just focusing on getting the several projects underway now, correct and delivered.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by JSpencer

[The Stationmaster]

Actually one side of the Fell doesn't match anything or any condition at any time on the real loco.  The other side isn't too bad for late condition.

 

I would be interested in a really good EE Type 4 but experience to date of the results of KR's research input into the design of their models suggests to me that it won't come from them because even with all the information they don;t seem to beb able to get things completely right.  And, as in one current case, actually shown something that falls short of their description of a particular feature they said it would have (clearly a lot more work to do but why show a sample with a moulded component which falls well short of what they said the model will have?   Iit's relevant to mention that they say they have had considerable assistance from the owners of that particular engine in developing their model.  But input and assistance is one thing - making sure the CADs are right and the EP is right are other things which require their own skill sets.

 

Hence should I ever replace  my older Bachmann EE Type 4 a likely candidate would seem very unlikely to emerge from KR.  So no EOI from me.

[GWR-fan]

Realistically,  KR could not possibly afford the investment required to match the quality of Bachmann's latest releases.  One million pounds to research and tool just one loco is a level too far for the company.  Any major tooling would require the financial input of one of the major model railway shops,  but would they really be interested as Bachmann may already have the class 40 in its sights for a retool. 

 

Say a theoretical profit of GBP50.00 per loco sold and a basement level investment of say GBP300,000.00,  the company would need to sell 6000 units just to break even.   Given the money that Bachmann is willing to invest on new releases to get the "quality" they believe we all want,  even the low amount of investment that I mentioned is most likely unrealistically low for KR Models.  Is the market actually there for say 10,000 units given that the class 40 has been released previously by Bachmann, Lima, Hornby and Joueff?  Seems more pie in the sky to me.

 

Perhaps KR Models sees a potential market for future livery releases,  including the now popular fantasy models.  Bachmann's massive investment for the class 37 and 47 will see the tooling life into the distant future with perhaps only minor tooling alteration to conform with prototype changes.  Does the KR Models company have the potential lifespan to keep releasing new liveries into the future to recoup costs before the market is totally saturated?

Edited May 22, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[BR Blue]

Well the first engineering sample has appeared. To be totally honest I am not so sure that the blue is the right shade but otherwise, looking good.

[HExpressD]

An uncharacteristically normal email from KR tells me the 40 is going ahead!

 

Some nice renders in the email, alongside two fictitious liveries - EWS and Regional Railways

 

D326 going ahead too

 

1st QTR 2025 apparently

[NoggintheNog]

I'm no class 40 expert, and its only renders, but they look the part to me.

 

I'll be ordering a green one I think.

[HExpressD]

Some oddity in the email I notice, for one it tells me that as I filled in an EOI I get first dibs on ordering, but then directs me to the publicly available Class 40 listing, and the price is listed in the email as DCC Ready - £210, whereas it seems to be £175 on the website. 

 

Still, small things, wouldn't stop me putting my Hornby RR one out to pasture. 

[97406]

I’ve just looked at the mail.

 

40145 and the split box one had Clayton boilers so the roof panel next to the number 2 cab is incorrect. The cantrail grilles should be long, long, short working from the centre of the loco towards the No.2 cab.

 

Also 40145 has the connecting door lip along the bottom of the nose end. Only correct for the Scottish centre headcode conversions, e.g. 40060.

 

Not sure about dem screens, either, but assume a work in progress for now.

[Michael Hodgson]

15 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Some oddity in the email I notice, for one it tells me that as I filled in an EOI I get first dibs on ordering, but then directs me to the publicly available Class 40 listing, and the price is listed in the email as DCC Ready - £210, whereas it seems to be £175 on the website. 

 

 

According to the website:

 

"Class 40 Diesel Electric Locomotive

GBP£175.00 – GBP£258.33"

 

"Limited edition run of (250), D326: The Great Train Robbery Class 40.
DCC Ready £210
DCC Fitted £240
DCC Sound £310"

 

I suspect the first price quoted is before VAT

[adb968008]

Didnt see D326 on the website but I did spot the EWS and Regional Railways versions.

 

https://krmodels.net/product/class-40-diesel-electric-locomotive/

 

both images are url link to krs website.

 

40032 having headcodes ?

 

 

 

The bonnet curves remind me of the jouef 40 somewhat

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by adb968008

[97406]

6 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Didnt see D326 on the website but I did spot the EWS and Regional Railways versions.

 

https://krmodels.net/product/class-40-diesel-electric-locomotive/

 

both images are url link to krs website.

 

40032 having headcodes ?

 

 

 

The bonnet curves remind me of the jouef 40 somewhat

 

 

40032 has had a bit of a nose job. Zooming in on the screens of 199 doesn’t fill me with hope at this stage. I wonder if the engine room windows are in the same place on the other side like the Jouef Class 40?

[adb968008]

23 minutes ago, 97406 said:

 

40032 has had a bit of a nose job. Zooming in on the screens of 199 doesn’t fill me with hope at this stage. I wonder if the engine room windows are in the same place on the other side like the Jouef Class 40?

It could of course be two sides of the same loco… like the Fell.

 

(Note to self… oh behave).

 

But tbh… I kind of like the 40 in those liveries (well RR needs the blue stripe tone fixing)… but 40199 has an air of credible… maybe with a class 66 sound chip .. and class 49 ?

😀

Edited August 22, 2023 by adb968008

[97406]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It could of course be two sides of the same loco… like the Fell.

 

(Note to self… oh behave).

 

But tbh… I kind of like the 40 in those liveries (well RR needs the blue stripe tone fixing)… but 40199 has an air of credible.

An original or red stripe railfreight would look interesting, after 145’s spell in large logo. Sector, too. 

 

There may be the option of Shawplanning the screens if they get the boiler section right. I’d still like to see them right in the first place given the efforts of 2 other manufacturers on their 37s.

[AY Mod]

[97406]

Here’s the other renders. I’m afraid I’ll pass at this stage and watch it develop.

 

 

 

Actually, all the models appear to have Clayton boiler roofs and Stones boiler cantrail grilles. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by 97406

[LaGrange]

18 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

But tbh… I kind of like the 40 in those liveries (well RR needs the blue stripe tone fixing)… but 40199 has an air of credible… maybe with a class 66 sound chip 

😀

 

There were 199 TOPS Class 40's, as D322 was written off in the mid 60's, hence the pioneer D200 becoming 40122

 

I dont know, KR were desperate to sell off GT3's in fictitious liveries and are developing more of them for some reason, even after the others didnt sell.

 

Perhaps leave the mainstream models to the more established, professional manufacturers and stick with more niche models - oh wait they struggle with those too

[adb968008]

19 minutes ago, LaGrange said:

 

There were 199 TOPS Class 40's, as D322 was written off in the mid 60's, hence the pioneer D200 becoming 40122

 

I dont know, KR were desperate to sell off GT3's in fictitious liveries and are developing more of them for some reason, even after the others didnt sell.

 

Perhaps leave the mainstream models to the more established, professional manufacturers and stick with more niche models - oh wait they struggle with those too

Ive been very familiar with D200 most of my life, indeed even the early days of the cfps before they got 40145.

 

40199’s number is credible, but 40032 was a disc headcode 40.. hence my comment. It wasnt a scottish conversion either… 

 

Flickr url

 

I’d choose a different number.. indeed I might even go with a 40/4 number like 40145 did once back in 1992 when it ran as 40445, maybe 40494 (40194) instead of 40032 ?… 40194 was the last centre headcode 40 withdrawn.

one of the problems with using an “all in one” 40145 is that unlike most of the centre headcode box 40’s,  it  retained its wide ER headboard brackets (like the Deltics), which most didnt have or lost. These are visible either side, inside of the lower lamp brackets... in addition to the modern headlamp, which one hopes is removable from the tooling.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by adb968008

[stovepipe]

I won't be ordering on the basis of those renders...... it looks like another half-A job is in the offing.

[Colin_McLeod]

6 hours ago, HExpressD said:

and the price is listed in the email as DCC Ready - £210, whereas it seems to be £175 on the website. 

 

 

£175 plus 20% VAT = £210

[Michael Hodgson]

18 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

 

£175 plus 20% VAT = £210

Indeed, but it's contrary to Advertising standards to omit taxes without making that clear.

https://www.asa.org.uk/news/to-include-or-not-to-include-vat-in-stated-prices.html

 

[97406]

41 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

I won't be ordering on the basis of those renders...... it looks like another half-A job is in the offing.

 

The existing Bachmann model, whilst a little dated and missing a few details can be worked on and improved immeasurably. Its general proportions and stance (when lowered) are excellent. I’m coming to the conclusion that I need to get my modelling fingers going on a few more and I have just bought a second Aureol that will become 40106 with Shawplan screens and glazing. I will wait and see what transpires with the KR model nevertheless.

Edited August 22, 2023 by 97406

[E100]

I've got to be honest. I can very easily see this ending badly or not as good as first hoped. I struggle to believe that Accurascale aren't working on one given the various crossovers with existing models they do and the gap in the market. They are likely to be undercutting this as well based on the class 50 and could well deliver earlier. If this is the case it could well become similar to the new Heljan 47 whereby it's a potentially decent model but not necessarily the best on the market and priced such that only those wanting a particular variant/number will go for it rather than selling in vast quantities. That being said I doubt that KR models are that naive, hence the EoI. 

[stovepipe]

The latest Bachmann 2023 releases have some useful improvements, but the bogies are still rather lacking in detail and depth. On the KR renders I can't tell what I'm looking at on the bogies - there's something very odd going on with the springs...