KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[johndon]

4 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

KR have shown no desire to listen to feedback from those who have knowledge of models made so far

 

Except they did listen with the Consett Iron Ore wagons and produced a completely new EP based on feedback and we ended up with a really very good model of the prototype...

[Matt C]

I thought this was for expressions of interest ? Not for expressions of how terrible it will be in YOUR humble opinions ? For goodness sake say yes/ interested or No/ not interested and then at least wait till there is actually something to see before ripping it/ them apart

[Hilux5972]

8 hours ago, johndon said:

 

Except they did listen with the Consett Iron Ore wagons and produced a completely new EP based on feedback and we ended up with a really very good model of the prototype...

Completely agree and I am very happy with my packs of the same wagons. 

[PM47079]

If they are working with the class 40 preservation society and have access to all their 40s I would imagine that they would be able to produce a really good model of it. I always try to be optimistic with any model. The early prototype model will be when people can suggest any corrections and if they correct any errors and listen to the class 40 experts then it could be a very good model

[WisTramwayMan]

Too many ifs and coulds there for me.

 

Producing a model where several examples are still extant, has been replicated well elsewhere, plus where a huge quantity of images and first- hand knowledge exists will raise expectations and the level of scrutiny way above anything they have attempted so far, ie,  of locomotives that are extinct.... (certainly those where the finished product has reached the public domain).

 

[E100]

The fundamental issue is trust and to date they have mixed record on that. Since it is easy lose and hard to build I suspect this may not get as much expressions of interest as the market would otherwise actually suggest i.e. many will not put in an EOI based on the Fell but if the 40 is better than Bachmann's and up to the high standard they hope to meet then it will fly off the shelves in good numbers. This obviously suggests they need to move to a more mature business model and away from the crowd funding style but the multiple GT3 runs and 2nd Consett run etc will probably be building up the reserves.

 

That being said this is clearly at an early stage, and it would be remarkably easy for Accurascale to come in and same we are doing this for 2024 Q2 or Bachmann to release it say Q3 next year with a weeks notice and most prospective sales would likely evaporate. It's a heck of a risk and I think this has the potential to make them but it may also help break them if they get it wrong.

[37081LochLong]

Not that it's worth anything to anyone on here, but my feelings of a class 40 by KR Models are simple. If it had been announced by Accurascale I'd have Pre-ordered one or three on day one. If a retooled one was announced by Bachmann I'd have took the weekend to think about it but would more than likely Pre-ordered one. But like so many others it seems, I'll just wait and see, and if it's good wait for a second batch.

I preordered the GT3 and although it wasn't perfect it kept me interested enough in KR Models and I preordered the Fell loco... Biggest mistake of my model collecting life! I've never been so disappointed in a model purchase that I decided there and then that I wouldn't preorder any new models by KR, even if it meant missing out on something good. I would just await the results and see if there was a second batch if it was any good.

Unfortunately the Fell loco has made me extremely wary and made me lose confidence in the companies ability to communicate and listen to the buyers. (Consett aside)

My experience with class 40 enthusiasts is that they are extremely knowledgeable about minor differences in class members and they were the most helpful people to help me identify the numbers of a lot of my unknown 40 photos. And because of that I know they'll be watching very closely and will pick up on even the smallest of errors, and I'm just not convinced that KR are the company to listen and change! They seem more bothered in rushing a model out without listening to the buyer.

So it is with a heavy heart that I find myself holding back and refusing to show my interest in a model loco because of lack of confidence.

I'm by no means a perfectionist when it comes down to fine detail, and I can forgive a lot, but I need confidence that it will be close to the prototype without silly flaws and without looking like a cheap plastic rushed toy from packaging to model.

My money stays in my pocket unless they can prove my fears wrong (which at the end of the day I honestly hope they can)

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, 37081LochLong said:

Not that it's worth anything to anyone on here, but my feelings of a class 40 by KR Models are simple. If it had been announced by Accurascale I'd have Pre-ordered one or three on day one. If a retooled one was announced by Bachmann I'd have took the weekend to think about it but would more than likely Pre-ordered one. But like so many others it seems, I'll just wait and see, and if it's good wait for a second batch.

I preordered the GT3 and although it wasn't perfect it kept me interested enough in KR Models and I preordered the Fell loco... Biggest mistake of my model collecting life! I've never been so disappointed in a model purchase that I decided there and then that I wouldn't preorder any new models by KR, even if it meant missing out on something good. I would just await the results and see if there was a second batch if it was any good.

Unfortunately the Fell loco has made me extremely wary and made me lose confidence in the companies ability to communicate and listen to the buyers. (Consett aside)

My experience with class 40 enthusiasts is that they are extremely knowledgeable about minor differences in class members and they were the most helpful people to help me identify the numbers of a lot of my unknown 40 photos. And because of that I know they'll be watching very closely and will pick up on even the smallest of errors, and I'm just not convinced that KR are the company to listen and change! They seem more bothered in rushing a model out without listening to the buyer.

So it is with a heavy heart that I find myself holding back and refusing to show my interest in a model loco because of lack of confidence.

I'm by no means a perfectionist when it comes down to fine detail, and I can forgive a lot, but I need confidence that it will be close to the prototype without silly flaws and without looking like a cheap plastic rushed toy from packaging to model.

My money stays in my pocket unless they can prove my fears wrong (which at the end of the day I honestly hope they can)

Yep seems a good plan , waiting for second batch ,to see what issues there are . Of course if everyone holds off for second batch there won’t be a first . But I think this is a reasonable risk given that we already have a pretty good Bachmann model and indeed the presence of this model may put others off .  Let’s wait to see what comes out . If it’s like the Consett wagon it appears all will be well , if it’s like the Fell……………….

[HExpressD]

On 03/12/2022 at 18:08, black and decker boy said:

KR have shown no desire to listen to feedback from those who have knowledge of models made so far so why would we expect them to seek and take onboard any critical feedback from CFPS?

People have mentioned the Consett wagons but the Class 40 itself is an example of KR listening to feedback. They've listened to what people have said and responded.

 

I think sometimes, in all industries, people only consider feedback 'listened too' if the resulting action from the manufacturer follows it to the letter.

 

[Din]

20 hours ago, HExpressD said:

People have mentioned the Consett wagons but the Class 40 itself is an example of KR listening to feedback. They've listened to what people have said and responded.

 

I think sometimes, in all industries, people only consider feedback 'listened too' if the resulting action from the manufacturer follows it to the letter.

 

 

I saw quite recently a rather scathing declaration attributed to one of the creators of Pokemon, where the "feedback" they get is either impractical, silly, or both. This includes every region ever done in a pokemon game in a single game, but only the original 150 pokemon. He apparently reads the choicest ones out on the staff floor.

 

Its certainly interesting reading threads here on this forum, and its obvious if the feedback was listened to from here for every manufacturer, we'd all have individually customised models of our particular favourite locomotives or variation of type! Which is most definitely not practical or sensible from a business point of view were minimum runs are worth the bother. It also feels sometimes this forum gives off the impression it's more important than it is, when in reality it makes up a very small slice of the modelling fraternity and thus in turn, customer base. But this isn't unique to here by any stretch of the imagination.

 

A couple of the models, especially from KR, have the issue of the prototypes simply not existing in any form. (and is likely to continue into the future)

 

Meaning going off of alternative routes such as photographs and drawings is the only available option, and who's to say whatever the drafting office signed off for and approved, was what eventually went out? We know many examples of many locomotives received on-the-fly modifications as our forefathers didn't have the benefit of the CAD models and simulations we're seeing with today's locomotive designs.

 

At least with the Class 40, (and by extension Bellaphron and Big Bertha) they have worked with various owner organisations and resources to ensure the models will be more top notch than the issues that surrounded the (sold out) Fell.

[BrushVeteran]

Another possible livery variation of D326 taken at Willesden in September 1967.

[Colin_McLeod]

21 hours ago, Din said:

Its certainly interesting reading threads here on this forum, and its obvious if the feedback was listened to from here for every manufacturer, we'd all have individually customised models of our particular favourite locomotives or variation of type!

 

In the past a manufacturer produced a class x. One version, one livery, one number?

 

Now manufacturers are expected to supply every version, every livery and every number.

 

I've decided to accept that KR Models is one of the former, just like Hornby Dublo, Triang etc. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Colin_McLeod

[jjb1970]

The key is how they sell it. If they self fund and release in the usual way then wait and see what they produce. If it is good, buy it. I certainly have no wish for them to release a disappointing model. If they continue their practice of getting customers to act as a source of finance by paying in advance then my advice is to wait and see as their track record isn't great. There will be future releases and they are selling stuff via Rails so you may get a first release model once you know what you will be getting. And there's still the Bachmann model.

[blueeighties]

On 03/12/2022 at 21:15, johndon said:

 

Except they did listen with the Consett Iron Ore wagons and produced a completely new EP based on feedback and we ended up with a really very good model of the prototype...

Shame they didn't do that with their other releases.

[johndon]

26 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Shame they didn't do that with their other releases.

 

No argument there but at least they've shown that they can.

['CHARD]

On 05/12/2022 at 15:05, HExpressD said:

People have mentioned the Consett wagons but the Class 40 itself is an example of KR listening to feedback. They've listened to what people have said and responded.

 

How is it?  What feedback?

 

If I read somewhere that people would like another Class Doo-dah bringing to market, and then announced a new Doo-dah, that is about the equivalent of what we have here. 

 

Whereas if I showed said folk the first Engineering Prototypes of my Doo-dah, noted their feedback, interpreted it and incorporated the valid parts of it into EP V2 of the Doo-dah, then THAT would be the substantive and relevant example. 

[Hilux5972]

26 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

How is it?  What feedback?

 

If I read somewhere that people would like another Class Doo-dah bringing to market, and then announced a new Doo-dah, that is about the equivalent of what we have here. 

 

Whereas if I showed said folk the first Engineering Prototypes of my Doo-dah, noted their feedback, interpreted it and incorporated the valid parts of it into EP V2 of the Doo-dah, then THAT would be the substantive and relevant example. 

Feedback about details was relayed back to KR and they did act on this. About the plain interior of the hopper I believe? Hidden somewhere in the Consett thread. 

[johndon]

31 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

Whereas if I showed said folk the first Engineering Prototypes of my Doo-dah, noted their feedback, interpreted it and incorporated the valid parts of it into EP V2 of the Doo-dah, then THAT would be the substantive and relevant example. 

 

Exactly what they did with the Consett wagons, as Hilux says the first EP had no interior detail and various other issues which were corrected on the second EP after feedback.  I will admit was one of the loudest unhappy voices when the first EP came out but rather than just complaining about it on here, I did something about it and supplied KR with some photos of the interior of the wagons...

['CHARD]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

Feedback about details was relayed back to KR and they did act on this. About the plain interior of the hopper I believe? Hidden somewhere in the Consett thread. 

 

1 hour ago, johndon said:

 

Exactly what they did with the Consett wagons, as Hilux says the first EP had no interior detail and various other issues which were corrected on the second EP after feedback.  I will admit was one of the loudest unhappy voices when the first EP came out but rather than just complaining about it on here, I did something about it and supplied KR with some photos of the interior of the wagons...

 

My point stands; that the Consett wagons were tweaked is not in dispute, but the following contention is risible nonsense:  

 

'the Class 40 itself is an example of KR listening to feedback'

[GWR-fan]

If we were to visit the Fell thread an early comment from the manufacturer was that it would be a highly accurate model.  Now we hear that the proposed class 40 is apparently to be the most accurate model of the type to date.  Perhaps the definition of the word "accurate" is open to interpretation.  In today's market "good enough" does not pass muster.  The days of Lima and Hornby Margate are history and not acceptable for a newly tooled model.  Is it any wonder that there is some discern from those who are thinking with their heads and not their hearts.

[PieGuyRob]

Just agreeing with what GWR-fan has said, as I can't leave feedback on his post.

Edited December 7, 2022 by PieGuyRob
Spelling mistake

[John M Upton]

Apparently a surprise big Christmas announcement is coming from Bachmann on Monday.  My theory is if it is what I think it is then I reckon the KRM 40 will be dead in the water.

[Hilux5972]

9 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Apparently a surprise big Christmas announcement is coming from Bachmann on Monday.  My theory is if it is what I think it is then I reckon the KRM 40 will be dead in the water.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised 

[Covkid]

On 09/12/2022 at 23:39, John M Upton said:

Apparently a surprise big Christmas announcement is coming from Bachmann on Monday.  My theory is if it is what I think it is then I reckon the KRM 40 will be dead in the water.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 08:57, Hilux5972 said:

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised 

 

Do you think the refettled Bachmann model of D213 32-487SF would still be available to order, with its revised nose end lighting ?

 

I have two of the current Bachmann 40s, one sound fitted, and it will be difficult to justify replacing them with new Bachmann ones, and KR is not even in my equation. The only issue I have with the current Bachmann 40s is the windscreen, and if it wasn't for trying to colour match the Bachmann BR green I would be looking at Shawplan replacement windscreens and cab faces.  

[Hilux5972]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:39, John M Upton said:

Apparently a surprise big Christmas announcement is coming from Bachmann on Monday.  My theory is if it is what I think it is then I reckon the KRM 40 will be dead in the water.

Bit of a disappointment but happy for the narrow gauge guys I guess.