The 00 Wishlist Poll Returns!

[Barry O]

a very comprehensive list .. 

 

Baz

[Oakdale]

Well done team for setting up the poll again, I enjoy going through it and voting.

 

Thanks John

[Miss Prism]

Section 15 (Freight Stock: Pre-1923) - there's  a wonderful selection of GWR Mink vans to choose from, but no Opens at all!  Seems very imbalanced. (Or am I looking at the wrong section?)

 

[Trevellan]

41 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because it's a distraction from this topic and what it's intended for. It just came across as very shouty and belligerent which, knowing how much time the team put it into it all, is upsetting. Excess question and exclamation marks give that impression too.

 

Agreed Andy. Sadly, I've noticed this attitude in a few threads recently (Accurascale Mark 5s being one), with petty bickering and a rudeness which I'd usually associate with Twitter rather than RMweb.

[Big James]

Glad to see the poll back. I always enjoyed it. Great shout with the selection of SR prototypes. 
 

Big James

[BMacdermott]

6 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Section 15 (Freight Stock: Pre-1923) - there's  a wonderful selection of GWR Mink vans to choose from, but no Opens at all!  Seems very imbalanced. (Or am I looking at the wrong section?)

 

Hello Miss Prism

 

In 2019, we listed GWR 16ft, 9ft wheelbase Open Wagons (Diagrams between O3 and O11, 1904-1926) and Rapido subsequently announced its Diag.021 - so the listing came out on the basis of releasing space. This enabled us to list a number of new pre-Grouping types from other companies.

 

In current category 16, we still list the 17ft 6in, 10ft wheelbase Opens (Diags.O31 etc, 1932 into BR days).

 

You are welcome to make suggestions for 2024, but they must be made according to what we say in the Q&A please.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

 

[choo1choo]

Agree with Big James above. Great selection of Southern prototypes particularly the LBSCR Gladstone and coaching stock. Thank you Poll Team.

 

Craig.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

 

As noted by Andy, it was all 'done and dusted' some years ago.

 

 

Plenty has changed in those years. The majority of the committee and chairman of the NGS has changed. It would probably be worth asking again, as a representative of RMweb/BRM, rather than dismissing out of hand.

 

 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, grahame said:

as a representative of RMweb/BRM,

 

The Poll Team are completely independent of RMweb/BRM.

 

I wouldn't expect Brian to keep asking (would he know of the changes anyway?). Maybe a representative from the society should contact Brian (without the side that has been exhibited in this and the previous topic); it's only polite.

[BMacdermott]

2 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Plenty has changed in those years. The majority of the committee and chairman of the NGS has changed. It would probably be worth asking again, as a representative of RMweb/BRM, rather than dismissing out of hand.

 

Hello grahame

 

Sorry...but no. As noted earlier, as far as we are concerned, it was 'done and dusted' some years ago - but the offer still stands if anyone needs help.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

The Poll Team are completely independent of RMweb/BRM.

 

I wouldn't expect Brian to keep asking (would he know of the changes anyway?). Maybe a representative from the society should contact Brian (without the side that has been exhibited in this and the previous topic); it's only polite.

 

Agreed Andy.

 

Below is what we say in the Q&A on page 1 of this thread:

 

 

Although The Poll is hosted by RMweb, it is not connected with it and has no influence on it. Andy York kindly arranges the ‘computerised elements’ for us in his own time.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[Bucoops]

Good grief, a pointless argument already.

 

There's a clue in the thread name - 00.

 

If people want an n gauge poll, make one, don't bitch about there not being one, you just look silly.

[wombatofludham]

Pleasantly surprised to see the poll back and thank you to the team for volunteering to do the poll again in spite of the work involved.  Clearly it is a worthwhile exercise and considered a valuable piece of information otherwise it wouldn't be returning.

Having read through the PDF I can see lots of nice things to vote for.  I may be in a minority of 1 on some of them though.

[BMacdermott]

5 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Good grief, a pointless argument already.

 

There's a clue in the thread name - 00.

 

If people want an n gauge poll, make one, don't bitch about there not being one, you just look silly.

 

Thanks Rich

 

We had the same difficulty with 'Industrial' and 'Underground'. We offered all our data and some assistance - but none was ever taken.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[didcot]

Wow, that's some list. Will be voting for the GWR Tool and Staff vans. Thanks to everyone who put it together. 

[The Johnster]

Yay, poll, wishlisting without Andy telling me off!

 

I'm sure this involves a massive amount of effort to set up and to collate the results, and can't imagine how Brian would find the time to do one for N or TT; the lists would be respectively massive and even more massive (until 'new' TT establishes itself).  Not sure if this is a useful suggestion but it might spread the workload on poor, long-suffering Brian, and allow other scales to be included, if the poll was spread over quarterly or monthly installments.  I realise that Brian might justifiably object to this on the grounds that he'd be more or less permanently involved with some part of it with no respite!

 

Looking forward to giving you all my 5 penn'orth on the Glorious 12th!  One of my 'never thought I'd see it in RTR' wishes has been recently fulfilled by Rapido, so I may introduce a new idea this year; you don't get if you don't ask...

 

Comprehensive list, plenty for my to stick my oar in about...

 

 

[TomE]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It's not quite as detailed as the OO Poll but no doubt it will be looked at by the likes of RevolutioN, Rapido and Bachmann.

 

If it takes off, perhaps Tom will add steam to the mix.

 

It's certainly the intention to run a poll for N Gauge Steam, and indeed wagons and coaches, in the future but it became evident pretty quickly that subject is significantly more complex than D&E types, so it will be compiled over the course of the year and be run around the same time in 2023. 

In truth, output in N Gauge probably doesn't justify a comprehensive yearly poll anyway, so splitting it up in to separate parts and rotating through them over 2 or 3 years probably makes sense.  

 

The reason for running the poll this year was primarily a bit of fun, but also because we haven't had one for N Gauge since 2019, so it's also interesting to see what N Gauge modellers (modern image on this occasion) would like to see produced. I've already had some very useful feedback on how to make the N Gauge poll more valuable to manufacturers in the future so hopefully it can become a useful resource for N Gauge. 
 

Through compiling the N Gauge D&E poll for NGN, I certainly have massive respect for the time and effort the OO Gauge team put in to it!

Tom. 
 

Edited December 5, 2022 by TomE

[BMacdermott]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I'm sure this involves a massive amount of effort to set up and to collate the results, and can't imagine how Brian would find the time to do one for N or TT; the lists would be respectively massive and even more massive (until 'new' TT establishes itself).  Not sure if this is a useful suggestion but it might spread the workload on poor, long-suffering Brian, and allow other scales to be included, if the poll was spread over quarterly or monthly installments.  I realise that Brian might justifiably object to this on the grounds that he'd be more or less permanently involved with some part of it with no respite!

 

Hello Johnster

 

Many thanks for your support.

 

I'm sorry to say it wouldn't be practical for any of us to do any more than we are already doing. That is partly why we have split the 00 Poll up alternately with Quirky.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[55020]

A great initiative that I've enjoyed completing in years gone by.  Thanks Brian and the poll team, thanks also to Andy for enabling the process.  I look forward to ticking some boxes and eventually seeing what the collated results look like.

 

 

Steve

[PieGuyRob]

I'm looking forward to the poll opening. It will be the first one that I have participated in. Many thanks to Brian for taking the time to produce it.

[Michael Hodgson]

9 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

You can, of course, get good runners from the likes of Bachmann, Hornby etc, but such qualities are remarkably inconsistent, even amongst what could be the same batch of identical models.

 

So, is there any way to ascertain what the general feeling would be about the above issue, please?

We all want reliable running, so there's not much to debate and I don't see that this subject is capable of being tackled meaningfully in a poll.  Quality of running is a subjective opinion.  Not only might you and I disagree how well/badly a given model runs, but as you yourself just said we might both buy identical models from the same batch and one of us gets an excellent runner while the other has a "Friday afternoon car"

[Captain Kernow]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

We all want reliable running, so there's not much to debate and I don't see that this subject is capable of being tackled meaningfully in a poll.  Quality of running is a subjective opinion.  Not only might you and I disagree how well/badly a given model runs, but as you yourself just said we might both buy identical models from the same batch and one of us gets an excellent runner while the other has a "Friday afternoon car"

I agree, but what I was getting at with my initial post was not whether folk wanted good running but whether anyone would be prepared to pay a bit more for guaranteed good running qualities, so it could be considered a 'poll' in that sense.

 

Otherwise you are right, some manufacturers are very inconsistent with their running qualities and the results can be a bit of a lottery.

 

One company that seems to have avoided these inconsistencies so far is Planet Industrials, as I have yet to hear a bad report of their 'Victory' class running qualities.

 

But perhaps this does require a separate thread.

 

[AY Mod]

7 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

But perhaps this does require a separate thread.

 

You should be able to create a poll using the Poll tab when making the first post in the topic Tim? Many will probably say yes in the expectation that it would cost a £ more; maybe the question is "how much more?".

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Johnster

 

Many thanks for your support.

 

I'm sorry to say it wouldn't be practical for any of us to do any more than we are already doing. That is partly why we have split the 00 Poll up alternately with Quirky.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

I thought as much.  Thanks for doing it, though, great fun and a good way of formalising and quantitatively analysing our disparate/desperate wishlisting so that it it is of use to the RTR companies, who have been occasionally forthcoming with correct guesses of what I want, bless ‘em!

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I agree, but what I was getting at with my initial post was not whether folk wanted good running but whether anyone would be prepared to pay a bit more for guaranteed good running qualities, so it could be considered a 'poll' in that sense.

 

Otherwise you are right, some manufacturers are very inconsistent with their running qualities and the results can be a bit of a lottery.

 

One company that seems to have avoided these inconsistencies so far is Planet Industrials, as I have yet to hear a bad report of their 'Victory' class running qualities.

 

But perhaps this does require a separate thread.

 

I’d say that current DC RTR running quality in general is pretty good; certainly better than the bad old days of the 70s and 80s, when we had those awful pancake motors and plastic spur gears.  These things were pretty feeble, and had to run at very high rpm to develop any power with which to pull trains, resulting in the reduction gearing which introduced a lot of drag and friction, added to by the metal clips which held the spur gears in place but pressin sideways on them.   With traction tyres, Satan’s expectorant, spreading crud all over the layout and compromising pickup performance as well as denying any pickup at all on that wheel, any chance of decent, controlled slow running or smooth starts and stops was out the window before you’d started.  
 

I’m talking about steam outline models here; diesels were better runners as a rule and still are.  But current steam outline puts in pretty good running performances so long as your track is laid smoothly and your pickup interface surfaces are kept clean.  Gearing is better as well; most current models are capable of something like their scale prototypical speed on full power, and even Smokey Joe’s attempts at escape velocity have, I’m told, been tamed.  
 

Not that I wouldn’t like to see further running improvements.  My opinion is that these could be achieved in DC, firstly by improvements in the control technology, which has completely stagnated for 40 years while all the development has been in DCC (surely someone must be able to devise an electronic stayalive for DC; this would be a massive improvement, especially if it was adjustable), and secondly by having faster motors, which would allow higher gearing ratios.  The default seems to be 38:1, way better than the old days, but a motor say 20% faster at a given voltage, requiring something like an additional 20% of 38, round up to 8, 46:1, to give the same rotational speed at the driving wheels for that voltage, would result in a smoother delivery of the power, especially for acceleration or deceleration, and for smoother starts and stops as well. 
 

Another issue IMHO is ballast, tractive weight, which improves the pickup from the rails by applying downward pressure to the wheels and increasing the loco’s momentum, both of which aid good running.  I cram as much as I can into every loco in my possession, and the results vary in the degree of their effectiveness, but the running and haulage are both always improved by this practice. This means that, if I can do it, the manufacturers could certainly put more weight in, and have the means and facilities at their disposal to make a better job than Johnster stuffing Blutac or Milliput into any crook and nanny he can find…

 

We are thread-drifting, though, and this is not the best place for this discussion.