Hornby 2023 Speculation?

[Ravenser]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think the market for a Focus would be significantly smaller than it is if it was 2/3rds the price of a Rolls Royce. That's what I was getting at.

 

 

Value for money is also a big factor in this. If you don't have £270, what would you do with your £180?

 

1. Buy a vastly inferior alternative for £180

2. Save longer for the thing you actually want.

3. Buy something completely different.

4. Simply not bother.

 

With a 156, I can't see option 1 being chosen very often.

You're assuming  that everyone else shares your assessment of the intolerability of the ex Lima 156. Some won't.  (And actually the real comparison is between a Ford Fiesta and a top of the range BMW)

 

But the real problem is that under 3 of your 4 scenarios Realtrack don't make a sale. That doesn't look good for their sales volumes. In the 4th scenario they make a delayed sale , but someone else loses a sale , because the money for that item has been spent with Realtrack.

 

And at the moment , personal modelling budgets can't simply be increased to accomodate whatever the retail prices are. In fact they may need to shrink to accomodate electricity, petrol and food 

 

This is how the garotte tightens on RTR . It happened in Continental HO , but not really in US HO because there was no real arms race on detail. Manufacturers  were happy to keep knocking out the same good models in every road colour under the star spangled banner. "Good enough"

 

Throw in another variable . What if Charlie Petty hasn't got the livery you require? 

 

(I'm in that situation with the Realtrack144. I could use one, though I've managed without ok for years. But I'd need it in the early w Yorks red and white. Only now is Realtrack floating the idea of a run in that. So I've kept my hands out of my pocket.They aren't cheap.

 

On the other hand locos under a hundred quid can be an impulse purchase. When Hattons had a suitable Barclay in the bargains - I pounced. I could have carried on without it, but at £84 it was too tempting... A Peckett W4 and the little Ruston came the same way.  What has been the better tooling investment for Hattons: the affordable Barclays or the very high spec Class 66?)

[Ravenser]

16 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Really?  I don't recall the Baldwin 4-6-0 or Gandy Dancer being BE products?

 

He's bought them in the UK, so they must have come through Bachmann Europe as distributer.

 

The other 3 models I personally wouldn't have slammed - there's  little or nothing actually wrong with them. Clearly Bachmann is a better brand in europe than in the US

 

But in view of the general feeling here, it's striking that nothing from Hornby comes under Sam's fire, either for being defective or for being over-priced old tat

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Very few people can afford to drive a Rolls Royce . There is a large market for cars like a Ford Focus.

 

The Japanese built a large car industry targetting the market for Ford Focuses. If they'd tried to target the Rolls Royce market , it wouldn't have worked

 

My point is that prices of top end items are starting to become prohibitive, not simply in relative terms , but in absolute terms - in terms of the household budget . And it's going to get steadily worse. People are now looking at prices and starting to say "sorry, I can;t afford that".

 

In 5 years time that problem will be much worse. Production costs in China will continue to rise much faster than earnings here

 

Therefore , if the existing model is already to a good standard - why retool?  If you have a budget model - you can keep selling it: why retool?

 

We are running out of new subjects with a broad reach in OO 

 

 

Don't forget that Hornby, in particular, charges what it thinks the markwet will bear in order to maximise the flow of revenue into the business.  That applies to everything they sell be it at a high price point for a hi0fi recent release or low0fi legacy tooling (which isn't always old tooling of course because that does wear out and need to be replaced.  Presumably the company knows what sells and it knows its individual margin on all the various items so thus far it is going for the hi-fi stuff against a known market situation.

 

Hornby's inevitable starting point in pricing has to relate very much to the income it needs to service its overheads, its borrowing costs, and its cash position, and to hopefully reach its income and profitability targets which in turn involve financial incentive/reward schemes for Directors and a couple of its senior managers plus whatever schemes it applies to those further down the tree.  And as long as it sells stuff at its various price points things won't change.

 

Measured against 00 prices what it s charging for the new TT range is obviously designed gto develop and increase the market and to presumably meet the additional direct operating costs involved.  But maybe it is prepared to mortgage even the latter fora short while to help get the range established?

 

The extent to which market conditions might change due to the current economic situation probably remains something of an open question as it all depends who is doing the buying.  And I wonder if we, as onlookers, understand that when we read on RMweb of people buying multiples of new locos costing the better part of £200, or more?  Low price items sell to one part of the market, higher price point sell to a different part of the market but do we really know how those two parts are being affected by inflation or real reductions in income?  And Hornby will no doubt be trying to target its investment, aka new tooling, at those parts of the market it is finding, from its sales, to be most robust.  What matters more to Hornby is keeping the number of people who can afford the high priced items and not moving them to items which produce less revenue

[frobisher]

1 minute ago, Ravenser said:

But in view of the general feeling here, it's striking that nothing from Hornby comes under Sam's fire, either for being defective or for being over-priced old tat

 

It's almost as if there might be some bias in filtering criteria for the grading... nah, can't possibly be that...

[griffgriff]

It depends on how much credence you have in the word of someone who tests trains on the floor ;)

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, Mr chapman said:

Hmmm... I like that idea. Should be nicely affordable and a bit different. I'd buy one. 

 

Trouble is it’s Hornby, so the wagons are going to be generic reliveried rubbish, we’ll be lucky if one out of the 4 is correct.  Prove me wrong, Mr.Kohler!

[Markwj]

I don’t watch Sam’s trains so have no idea if he has actually bought any Hornby locos this year, I don’t think I bought more than a couple although I believe he did slate the Coca Cola wagon quite forcefully suggesting no bias there. He can’t review (slate) what he hasn’t bought.

 

Anyway to try to drag this back to wish lists how about an updated 110 please Hornby.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

You're assuming  that everyone else shares your assessment of the intolerability of the ex Lima 156. Some won't.  (And actually the real comparison is between a Ford Fiesta and a top of the range BMW)

 

But the real problem is that under 3 of your 4 scenarios Realtrack don't make a sale. That doesn't look good for their sales volumes. In the 4th scenario they make a delayed sale , but someone else loses a sale , because the money for that item has been spent with Realtrack.

 

And at the moment , personal modelling budgets can't simply be increased to accomodate whatever the retail prices are. In fact they may need to shrink to accomodate electricity, petrol and food 

 

This is how the garotte tightens on RTR . It happened in Continental HO , but not really in US HO because there was no real arms race on detail. Manufacturers  were happy to keep knocking out the same good models in every road colour under the star spangled banner. "Good enough"

 

Throw in another variable . What if Charlie Petty hasn't got the livery you require? 

 

(I'm in that situation with the Realtrack144. I could use one, though I've managed without ok for years. But I'd need it in the early w Yorks red and white. Only now is Realtrack floating the idea of a run in that. So I've kept my hands out of my pocket.They aren't cheap.

 

On the other hand locos under a hundred quid can be an impulse purchase. When Hattons had a suitable Barclay in the bargains - I pounced. I could have carried on without it, but at £84 it was too tempting... A Peckett W4 and the little Ruston came the same way.  What has been the better tooling investment for Hattons: the affordable Barclays or the very high spec Class 66?)

The particular instance doesn't apply to me as, whilst I like the prototype, it post-dates my modelling interests and is "out of area" to boot..

 

The principle remains relevant, though. If I really want a model that breaks the budget, I'll cancel something else to finance it or flog off stuff from the display cabinet that I don't use. If I'm not willing to do either, I evidently don't want it badly enough...

 

As for paying £180 for a 1970's standard 2-car model DMU, John McEnroe had an answer to that.

 

I'd find that idea a good deal less attractive than making the effort to pay 50% more for an alternative that's clearly more than 50% better.

 

John

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[wombatofludham]

Amazing just how many retailers we have willing to give us an insight into their commercial thinking with regards the sales bargains they choose.  I didn't realise Kernow and Rails were so open.  On the other hand, I suspect most retailers decide their sales items on a raft of matters none of us - unless retailers - know.

On the unit issue, do any of you really, really think the manufacturers don't consider the market conditions when they launch a multi-car unit?  When a manufacturer sets a price it isn't set to stop sales.  It will have a good idea of the likely sales of the unit at the price set, otherwise they would very quickly end up insolvent.  Just because some retailers are putting units into their sales, could be for any number of reasons.  After all, how many third rail units do you see in Yorkshire?  Could it be local demand isn't so great for Southern units compared to more local interest stock?  I don't know and I guarantee the vast majority of posters don't either.

[Ravenser]

43 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Trouble is it’s Hornby, so the wagons are going to be generic reliveried rubbish, we’ll be lucky if one out of the 4 is correct.  Prove me wrong, Mr.Kohler!

 

The TT:120 releases imply a retooled 21T mineral in OO some time soon. Might suit you.

[Ravenser]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Don't forget that Hornby, in particular, charges what it thinks the markwet will bear in order to maximise the flow of revenue into the business.  That applies to everything they sell be it at a high price point for a hi0fi recent release or low0fi legacy tooling (which isn't always old tooling of course because that does wear out and need to be replaced.  Presumably the company knows what sells and it knows its individual margin on all the various items so thus far it is going for the hi-fi stuff against a known market situation.

 

Hornby's inevitable starting point in pricing has to relate very much to the income it needs to service its overheads, its borrowing costs, and its cash position, and to hopefully reach its income and profitability targets which in turn involve financial incentive/reward schemes for Directors and a couple of its senior managers plus whatever schemes it applies to those further down the tree.  And as long as it sells stuff at its various price points things won't change.

 

Measured against 00 prices what it s charging for the new TT range is obviously designed gto develop and increase the market and to presumably meet the additional direct operating costs involved.  But maybe it is prepared to mortgage even the latter fora short while to help get the range established?

 

The extent to which market conditions might change due to the current economic situation probably remains something of an open question as it all depends who is doing the buying.  And I wonder if we, as onlookers, understand that when we read on RMweb of people buying multiples of new locos costing the better part of £200, or more?  Low price items sell to one part of the market, higher price point sell to a different part of the market but do we really know how those two parts are being affected by inflation or real reductions in income?  And Hornby will no doubt be trying to target its investment, aka new tooling, at those parts of the market it is finding, from its sales, to be most robust.  What matters more to Hornby is keeping the number of people who can afford the high priced items and not moving them to items which produce less revenue

 

 

I don't disagree. 

 

But the issue is the assumption that release of a new higher-spec model - eg a Class 50  or 31 from Accurascale or a Class 156 from Realtrack , or a 4F from Bachmann - torpedos Hornby's existing model . And therefore that Hornby must invest in their own higher spec tooling or "lose" the subject. 

 

Everyone has assumed that "nobody will buy the Hornby model now!" . Yet in practice those models seem to keep selling quite well against the new superior model from someone else. We all know that the ex Lima models have stayed in Hornby's catalogue for decades in the face of headshaking, derision and outrage from the online modelling community. They seem to be selling - there are hints they may do better for Hornby than high-spec equivalents. 

 

The Hattons / Hornby spat over the 66 was most instructive. You'd have expected Hattons to have laughed off the Hornby action as futile and absurd : after all the Hornby 66 isn't generally regarded as credible competition for the Bachmann 66 , which Hattons were setting themselves up to blow away with trhe "definitive" all singing all-dancing OO Class 66. Yet Hattons were outraged, as if this was a genuine commercial threat, and more to the point Hornby's production seems to have sold through without problems

 

The way we talk, this shouldn't have happened. Hornby should have been left with a pile of 66s nobody wanted to buy while the smart crowd laughed at their humilation . That's not what actually happened in the marketplace.

 

I( found this very instructive:  Model 4Fs   

 

The way we talk, Bachmann announcing a new modern spec 4F should have sunk the ex Airfix model below the waves, never to be seen again. I assume Bachmann announced at the start of 2010 (haven't checked in detail) . Bachmann's new model was released in 2012, and again in 2015. Hornby ran theirs in 2011, 2015. 2016 and announced it again in the 2022 range - I can't find the relevant thread quickly , but I suspect there were loud groans . Bachmann's superior model clearly hasn't knocked the old Airfix warrior out of the ring

 

Accurascale have pledged to try to keep their stuff in continuous availability :

Quote

Our HUO wagons have been continuously available since we launched them 4 years ago and all our major lines will be likewise as demand dictates.

 

I presume that doesn't include the chaldron wagons - a bold innovative ground-braking project opening up new possibilities , but surely not a "standing dish "?

 

However it's true that the Aussie HO boys, Revolution and others do a project , sign up the num bers for a run - and then that's it . The more popular subjects may get a second bite of the cherry some years down the line, but they don't keep models available on an ongoing basis.

 

More to the point, these days nor do the big boys like Bachmann . The production history of the 4F shows that. So there will inevitably be long gaps where the new model isn't available . (See the blue/grey Mk1 TSO exchange...) It's not a head to head when only the Hornby model is available

 

These are all cases where there is a big gap in standard between the model from tooling Hornby bought , and the newly tooled rival. Yet Hornby still sell the things.

 

Where the gap is relatively small, as it would be with things like the 31 , 50, and 60 , I can't see any reason why Hornby's model would become unsaleable just because someone else has released one. I'd expect Hornby simply to carry on selling them , much as Dapol do with their own 66 in N gauge. Then it will come down to who's offering the particular paint and condition you want

 

[The Johnster]

I’ll approve of it if it is accurate and has the correct wheelbase, and there’s no reason to think it won’t, but at my age I’m pretty much wedded to 4mm!  I’m not starting again in a new scale now, especially as my South Wales prototypes will be thin on the ground for a while.  That said, I think UK outline 1:120 is a cracking idea and might finally dig us out of the compromises of 00.  Too late for this old codger, though. 

[Les1952]

2 hours ago, Markwj said:

I don’t watch Sam’s trains so have no idea if he has actually bought any Hornby locos this year, I don’t think I bought more than a couple although I believe he did slate the Coca Cola wagon quite forcefully suggesting no bias there. He can’t review (slate) what he hasn’t bought.

 

Anyway to try to drag this back to wish lists how about an updated 110 please Hornby.

 

 

 

There have been reviews of most stuff Hornby has put out this year.  I only watch an odd video of his, mainly to see what he thinks of something I've either bought or am thinking about.  I don't agree with everything he says, but his testing methods are at least consistent.  Marking locos down for not including details that aren't there on the prototype is a particular bugbear of mine..

 

However Hornby seem to be fairly consistently a little above the middle of his scoresheet, usually a few places down because of their price but promoted by quality (apart from a couple of real disasters such as Hush Hush). 

 

He does not get sent models for review, and buys everything he reviews.  I don't think he has bias as such but does have bees in his trilby (price, detail, broken bits, brass bearings on driving wheels to name but a few).  

 

Just a few thoughts

Les

 

[newbryford]

33 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

 

Everyone has assumed that "nobody will buy the Hornby model now!" . Yet in practice those models seem to keep selling quite well against the new superior model from someone else. 

 

 

 

Not me.

My opinion is still very much in the "some people will ONLY buy the Hornby model".

 

I don't include myself in the "some" though

 

[frobisher]

23 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I’ll approve of it if it is accurate and has the correct wheelbase, and there’s no reason to think it won’t, but at my age I’m pretty much wedded to 4mm!  I’m not starting again in a new scale now, especially as my South Wales prototypes will be thin on the ground for a while.  That said, I think UK outline 1:120 is a cracking idea and might finally dig us out of the compromises of 00.  Too late for this old codger, though. 

 

The thinking is more that new tooling in TT might be mirrored in matching tooling in 00 based off the same research/CAD.  We've already seen this the other way around as it's the only way to account for the promise of MK2E and F in TT...

 

It was widely reported that Hornby were developing the MK2F when Bachmann announced their much further ahead project, and Hornby pivoted to produce the MK2E initially (which has "issues") and followed up with the better F a year or so later.  This was all happening around the start of the TT development cycle... Clearly the modified CAD that produced the E from the F was flexible enough to still produce the F and looks like this capability was inherited by the TT version as well "for free".  It seems somewhat excessive to do two identicalish MK2 aircon types in an introductory range.

 

[Ravenser]

31 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I’ll approve of it if it is accurate and has the correct wheelbase, and there’s no reason to think it won’t, but at my age I’m pretty much wedded to 4mm!  I’m not starting again in a new scale now, especially as my South Wales prototypes will be thin on the ground for a while.  That said, I think UK outline 1:120 is a cracking idea and might finally dig us out of the compromises of 00.  Too late for this old codger, though. 

 

 

It seems everything they're doing in TT is something they have in the OO range. Except the 57xx they've announced . And the 21Ts are plainly new tooling and look ok.

 

The ex Airfix N32 moulds are long in the tooth now . The Hornby varient is ancient . Norstand was new in the 1975 catalogue. Could this signal a retooled 21T coming in OO??

[Les1952]

2 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

It seems everything they're doing in TT is something they have in the OO range. Except the 57xx they've announced . And the 21Ts are plainly new tooling and look ok.

 

The ex Airfix N32 moulds are long in the tooth now . The Hornby varient is ancient . Norstand was new in the 1975 catalogue. Could this signal a retooled 21T coming in OO??

Peppercorn A1?  Not Tornado but A1.

 

From the interviews with the CAD designer in the TT magazine (one of three designers) everything is being designed for TT:120 from the ground up because plastic thicknesses, space for motors and clearances can't be scaled down from OO for practical reasons.  

 

However, that may not stop them scaling things UP from TT:120.

 

Les

 

[McC]

53 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Accurascale have pledged to try to keep their stuff in continuous availability :

 

I presume that doesn't include the chaldron wagons - a bold innovative ground-braking project opening up new possibilities , but surely not a "standing dish "

 

Presumption and assumption are dangerous things. More chaldrons will

be along presently :) 

 

As a general comment we don’t see anything we make generally as a ‘replacement’ for anything anyone else makes. We simply have our standard and are building out a coherent rangethat modellers can enjoy over the long term. Unless what others make are very very close to our standard we don’t consider it competitive. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by McC

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Ravenser said:

You're assuming  that everyone else shares your assessment of the intolerability of the ex Lima 156. Some won't. 

 

It's not even about the comparison with the Realtrack one, how many people do you think would part with £180 for that? The provincial one hung around at £110. This isn't about how tolerable the model is, it's how you're saying it should sell at £180. It would be bad value for money. Combine that with the thought of people being more careful with money and it's just a terrible proposition IMO. If it had external lighting, then maybe it would just about get away with it but it doesn't. For me their example of the 156 needs to be more like £130-140 tops, as it's market is similar to that of their 66.

 

3 hours ago, Ravenser said:

(And actually the real comparison is between a Ford Fiesta and a top of the range BMW)

 

A Ford Fiesta isn't 2/3rds the price of a top of the range BMW either..... Unless you're making reference Rolls Royces ownership?

 

3 hours ago, Ravenser said:

But the real problem is that under 3 of your 4 scenarios Realtrack don't make a sale.

 

And likewise in only 1 do Hornby sell a 156. Granted, they might sell something else but there's a decent chance that money would go into somebody else's pocket too.

 

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

But the issue is the assumption that release of a new higher-spec model - eg a Class 50  or 31 from Accurascale or a Class 156 from Realtrack , or a 4F from Bachmann - torpedos Hornby's existing model . And therefore that Hornby must invest in their own higher spec tooling or "lose" the subject. 

 

I aren't assuming this. I have said earlier in this thread that reinvestment in tooling isn't necessarily the way to react. But (as I said a few pages ago), they have the options of:

1. Retooling to go toe to toe on detail

2. Shoving them out hoping the strength of their brand will sell some at a high price

3. Attempt to undercut the opposition and be the value proposition. Possibly with rationalisation of design and features to get the price down.

 

To me (at least), your suggestion of a £180 156 in its current guise is option 2, which as a business strategy seems either ignorant or short termism at best in my opinion. Expensive for what it is, not a value proposition but people might buy as they haven't heard of Realtrack. Those who have would probably think the Realtrack is a comparative bargain.

 

Hornbys 31, 50 and 56 might stand a better chance vs the opposition at a similar price as they are well featured enough to look OK value to somebody unaware of the opposition. That was covered at length a few days ago though.

[Pmorgancym]

4 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Really?  I don't recall the Baldwin 4-6-0 or Gandy Dancer being BE products?

Or the Heljan Hymek, no matter what box it's in

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

I don't disagree. 

 

But the issue is the assumption that release of a new higher-spec model - eg a Class 50  or 31 from Accurascale or a Class 156 from Realtrack , or a 4F from Bachmann - torpedos Hornby's existing model . And therefore that Hornby must invest in their own higher spec tooling or "lose" the subject. 

 

Everyone has assumed that "nobody will buy the Hornby model now!" . Yet in practice those models seem to keep selling quite well against the new superior model from someone else. We all know that the ex Lima models have stayed in Hornby's catalogue for decades in the face of headshaking, derision and outrage from the online modelling community. They seem to be selling - there are hints they may do better for Hornby than high-spec equivalents. 

 

The Hattons / Hornby spat over the 66 was most instructive. You'd have expected Hattons to have laughed off the Hornby action as futile and absurd : after all the Hornby 66 isn't generally regarded as credible competition for the Bachmann 66 , which Hattons were setting themselves up to blow away with trhe "definitive" all singing all-dancing OO Class 66. Yet Hattons were outraged, as if this was a genuine commercial threat, and more to the point Hornby's production seems to have sold through without problems

 

The way we talk, this shouldn't have happened. Hornby should have been left with a pile of 66s nobody wanted to buy while the smart crowd laughed at their humilation . That's not what actually happened in the marketplace.

 

I( found this very instructive:  Model 4Fs   

 

The way we talk, Bachmann announcing a new modern spec 4F should have sunk the ex Airfix model below the waves, never to be seen again. I assume Bachmann announced at the start of 2010 (haven't checked in detail) . Bachmann's new model was released in 2012, and again in 2015. Hornby ran theirs in 2011, 2015. 2016 and announced it again in the 2022 range - I can't find the relevant thread quickly , but I suspect there were loud groans . Bachmann's superior model clearly hasn't knocked the old Airfix warrior out of the ring

 

Accurascale have pledged to try to keep their stuff in continuous availability :

 

I presume that doesn't include the chaldron wagons - a bold innovative ground-braking project opening up new possibilities , but surely not a "standing dish "?

 

However it's true that the Aussie HO boys, Revolution and others do a project , sign up the num bers for a run - and then that's it . The more popular subjects may get a second bite of the cherry some years down the line, but they don't keep models available on an ongoing basis.

 

More to the point, these days nor do the big boys like Bachmann . The production history of the 4F shows that. So there will inevitably be long gaps where the new model isn't available . (See the blue/grey Mk1 TSO exchange...) It's not a head to head when only the Hornby model is available

 

These are all cases where there is a big gap in standard between the model from tooling Hornby bought , and the newly tooled rival. Yet Hornby still sell the things.

 

Where the gap is relatively small, as it would be with things like the 31 , 50, and 60 , I can't see any reason why Hornby's model would become unsaleable just because someone else has released one. I'd expect Hornby simply to carry on selling them , much as Dapol do with their own 66 in N gauge. Then it will come down to who's offering the particular paint and condition you want

 

I don't see there's any assumption that an Accurascale 31 or 50 will make the Hornby models unsaleable.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Hornby do exactly what they did in regard to the Hattons Class 66 and re-run their 31and 50 a(t probably lower price points) to cash in on the interest being generated by Accurascale's announcements.  That depends to some extent on whether they can hit a suitable price point and that in turn depends on the size of margin they are prepared to accept and the extent to which they can screw down the factory on price plus of course whether or not they can get a production slot.

 

But it's what they done before so it would be no surprise if they do it again.  And to an extent they will be selling into a slightly different market from Accurascale plus they''ll be selling something in a red box indicating a brand lots of folk recognise.  Their running models in that way won't have much impact, if any, on Accurascale's sales but in some respects for Hornby getting the right price point might well be the key to instant success.  The only risk Hornby face is adding to the unsold pile on which they are paying out real money for warehousing.

[Nova Scotian]

Anyone else seeing new stuff on the Hornby website? A "railroad plus" Class 40. Various A3s in Dublo, including the Pegler USA tour spec. Class 802 TPE. Class 423 in southwest and Southern. 800 GWR trainbow. The prince of wales P2 new build. Streamlined P2. Standard 2. Class 100 as a "railroad plus".

 

Class 50 can't tell if new liveries or retool. 

 

And then tonnes of TT - HSTs, big diesels, kettles, etc.

 

Or did everyone already see this? Struggling with the search function tonight... went through a few pages and couldn't see it.

[Ravenser]

45 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't see there's any assumption that an Accurascale 31 or 50 will make the Hornby models unsaleable.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Hornby do exactly what they did in regard to the Hattons Class 66 and re-run their 31and 50 a(t probably lower price points) to cash in on the interest being generated by Accurascale's announcements.  That depends to some extent on whether they can hit a suitable price point and that in turn depends on the size of margin they are prepared to accept and the extent to which they can screw down the factory on price plus of course whether or not they can get a production slot.

 

But it's what they done before so it would be no surprise if they do it again.  And to an extent they will be selling into a slightly different market from Accurascale plus they''ll be selling something in a red box indicating a brand lots of folk recognise.  Their running models in that way won't have much impact, if any, on Accurascale's sales but in some respects for Hornby getting the right price point might well be the key to instant success.  The only risk Hornby face is adding to the unsold pile on which they are paying out real money for warehousing.

 

The interesting question  is which 31 will they run? 

 

Although the pattern with the 4F production suggests that it's long term Hornby policy to pump out their own existing model before and at the time of a competitor's new release. 

 

Therefore the Hattons episode may not have been anything novel for Hornby. Presumably , therefore, they find that when they do this they shift the product and it works for their bottom line.

 

If the great bulk of the sales for the competitor model come from pre-orders made before hitting the button on the production run, then that would not necessarily be vulnerable to competition from a Hornby alternative.  but I don't quite see that as compatible with having a model continously available to the market - as has been declared tonight. You can have a "sign up for the next batch" continously open , but at some point that will stick, and it will take a .long time for anything to happen. The assumption that your potential buyers cannot be touched by an alternative model, which may be available in the shops, seems rather bold

 

[big jim]

8 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

Anyone else seeing new stuff on the Hornby website? A "railroad plus" Class 40. Various A3s in Dublo, including the Pegler USA tour spec. Class 802 TPE. Class 423 in southwest and Southern. 800 GWR trainbow. The prince of wales P2 new build. Streamlined P2. Standard 2. Class 100 as a "railroad plus".

 

Class 50 can't tell if new liveries or retool. 

 

And then tonnes of TT - HSTs, big diesels, kettles, etc.

 

Or did everyone already see this? Struggling with the search function tonight... went through a few pages and couldn't see it.

yeah, I’m seeing those items, are they not previously announced, I’m not really up to speed on Hornby stuff?

 

 

 

[Nova Scotian]

1 minute ago, big jim said:

yeah, I’m seeing those items, are they not previously announced, I’m not really up to speed on Hornby stuff?

 

 

 

That's what I see - plus some others.

 

I really hope someone at Hornby's not having a bad day (or won't have a bad day tomorrow...) and this is all part of their launch/roll-out.