Hornby 2023 Speculation?

[Dunsignalling]

I think Hornby (and everybody else for that matter) would do well to consider an effect of rising prices that doesn't seem to get discussed.

 

In recent years, Hornby has gone very big on a series of large LNER locomotives each hard on the heels of the one before. At the same time, there's been relatively little in the way of wholly new models (or retooled versions of existing ones) for non-Eastern fans. 

 

This can have two effects, both of which could have impacted Hornby's revenue stream.

 

First, some Eastern enthusiasts won't have been able to keep pace with all they wanted. OK, they will probably "catch up" via re-runs a year or two hence, but that's "jam tomorrow" for Hornby.

 

Second, followers of other companies/regions/periods who don't fancy the latest identities on locos they already have, might be inclined to keep their hands in their pockets and/or investigate what's on offer elsewhere. Using myself as an example, I already have a Winston Churchill (the NRM one) and Braunton in non-rebuilt form is out-of-period for me. I may be unique in those particular instances, but no doubt others can draw parallels. 

 

In short, Hornby, if you want to maximise my spend, don't put me in the position of 2022's "Easterners" by releasing four or five £250 locos I'm going to want in as many months. I really hate having to guess which ones I can get away with ignoring 'til later. Mind you, (assuming I don't miss out) maybe at a discount when I do get round to it, simply because too many of us made the same guess!

 

John

[Legend]

4 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Mind you some of their original ideas have included the steam punk range

You mean the 0-4-0 dressed up . Predictably sunk without trace . Joining their Olympic range 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Legend

[jjb1970]

9 minutes ago, Legend said:

You mean the 0-4-0 dressed up . Predictably sunk without trace . Joining their Olympic range 

 

The concept of steam punk is interesting, the problem is that the sci-fi/fantasy world has very high standards when it comes to models and deep pockets. If people think model trains are expensive then look at the wares of companies like Sideshow Toys and what people in that bubble are willing to pay. Tarting up antiquated railroad items and calling it steampunk was never going to cut it in that world. And to succeed it probably needed to be linked to a franchise, movie, comic series or something.

[Pmorgancym]

9 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

The concept of steam punk is interesting, the problem is that the sci-fi/fantasy world has very high standards when it comes to models and deep pockets. If people think model trains are expensive then look at the wares of companies like Sideshow Toys and what people in that bubble are willing to pay. Tarting up antiquated railroad items and calling it steampunk was never going to cut it in that world. And to succeed it probably needed to be linked to a franchise, movie, comic series or something.

I think that's the annoying thing about the steam punk range they could have gone with something more asthetically pleasing say an electric blue Dean goods/ open back pannier with brass dome and splashers, copper smokebox, some sort of riveted brass 'power source in the tender/bunker with a blue led.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I note that the Hornby auto trailer is on sale at 50% off in TMC's sale. The "regular price" is supposed to be just over £48. At that price, IMHO the Bachmann version is better value. As well as the cost, the main problem with the Bachmann version is that it can't legitimately be used on a GWR-era layout. An earlier auto-trailer would be good, ideally if it is somewhat shorter than the Hornby one (which is a 70’ trailer I believe).

 

Don't think we'll see it unless Hornby are going to do the 14xx…

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if some previously unannounced TT:120 models feature.

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I have more than strong suspicion that 2023 could well be the year when the NER starts to receive some long overdue attention from manufacturers etc.  My Hornby outlier remains the (in LNER terms) B16 but I wouldn't - as posted previously in this thread - be surprised to see Hornby extending their 'British pacifics' range to include the Raven design although their 00 investment would probably be better spent on a re-tool of the modified version of Mr Bulleid's first effort to that wheel arrangement.

 

Well surely Hornby can piggyback on the recently announced Accurascale wooden hoppers operating all over the northeast. Presumably the J27, Q6 and K1 can be included but are there other obvious NER contenders ?

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Minf d you if they don't do something to celebrate the v centenary of the GWR 'Castle's there's no justice in the world.

 

You cannot influence me there.  I have one token Castle in my fleet 

[Mark Lilley]

One more from me but I would also like to see Hornby,

Producing the A2/2 and A2/3 in actual BR livery, rather than that awful washed out green-that has stopped me from buying one of each.

and

Doing a further run of Coronation Scot and its coaches that seemed to be around for only a few months.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

2 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Well surely Hornby can piggyback on the recently announced Accurascale wooden hoppers operating all over the northeast. Presumably the J27, Q6 and K1 can be included but are there other obvious NER contenders ?

The J21 is the one I'd like to see but it's not really a "coal train" loco. Unlike the Raven Pacifics, there is at least a survivor although it doesn't seem to have received much love and care over the years…

[D5158]

If I recall correctly, Class J21’s were used quite extensively on the coke trains over Stainmore.

 

Best wishes for 2023.

[Rob Wallace]

Happy New year guys. Well there have been some brilliant suggestions. My wish would be to see 0-6-0 Bagnal saddle tanks. For no other reason that, they used to run past my house. Well when the iron ore mines were operating anyway. Long before I was born as well!. That’s not going to happen, but I would love them to release more TTS chips as stand alone items. The diesel ones are like rocking horse stuff….!. Cheers.

[Downer]

I have pre-ordered some Hattons Great Eastern  4- and 6-wheelers in the (probably) forlorn hope that the old J15 or a new E4 or J69 is promised in GE livery. 

[Dunsignalling]

The thing I would like to see (from anybody) would be some decent LMS vacuum-fitted ventilated vans. The Bachmann one is a mis-proportioned mess and the Dapol/old Airfix model, whilst very decent "above the waist" considering its elderly origins, is of a BR derivative. 

 

Unfortunately the prototypes varied so much that our OO r-t-r producers could each pick one diagram without any duplication being inevitable!

 

Even kit-building is a bit tricky. The Ratio kit represents one of the few that can be made up with or without AVB. Unfitted prototypes are quite well catered-for by Cambrian Models in kit form but none of those body styles were perpetuated in fitted form so one can't just bung Parkside PA16 underframes beneath them.  

 

Hornby do superb wagons when they put their minds to it (my particular favourites of recent memory being the SR Cattle wagons and LSWR brake vans) and an unrivalled selection of NPCCS vans, so we know it's feasible! 

 

John

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Brit70053]

If centenaries is a driving theme, Hornby might dip into the Oxford catalogue and produce NELPG preserved P3/ J27 as either (L)NER 2392 or BR 65894 respectively. This loco first emerged from Darlington Works in September 1923.

 

A state of the Art D49 Shire  available in either LNER or BR liveries would be an attractive proposition.

 

Regards,

 

                John

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

51 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The thing I would like to see (from anybody) would be some decent LMS vacuum-fitted ventilated vans. The Bachmann one is a mis-proportioned mess and the Dapol/old Airfix model, whilst very decent "above the waist" considering its elderly origins, is of a BR derivative. 

 

Unfortunately the prototypes varied so much that our OO r-t-r producers could each pick one diagram without any duplication being inevitable!

 

Even kit-building is a bit tricky. The Ratio kit represents one of the few that can be made up with or without AVB. Unfitted prototypes are quite well catered-for by Cambrian Models in kit form but none of those body styles were perpetuated in fitted form so one can't just bung Parkside PA16 underframes beneath them.  

 

Hornby do superb wagons when they put their minds to it (my particular favourites of recent memory being the SR Cattle wagons and LSWR brake vans) and an unrivalled selection of NPCCS vans, so we know it's feasible! 

 

John

The way things are going nowadays I suspect it's more likely to appear from someone other than Hornby.  And at the rate a couple of companies are going we could perhaps hope that it might not be f roo far off.

 

I mentioned well up thread that I can't see Hornby spending money on new tooling for 'traditional' wagons in 00.   The area has become much more competitive in the past year or two and, maybe even more worrying for Hornby (if they are awake to what is happening?), the pace of new releases from Rapido in particular seems to be being sustained.  Thus, with their longer lead times, spending money in this area would, I think, represent a potential risk for Hornby especially when they have plenty of other things, now including of course TT120, demanding investment cash when they have already built up substantial borrowings so far this year.

 

It might well be that one or two projects which have been under development could possibly still make it to market dependng on where they sit in the process and the amount of money already spent?  But i still wonder if we'll see anything.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

The way things are going nowadays I suspect it's more likely to appear from someone other than Hornby.  And at the rate a couple of companies are going we could perhaps hope that it might not be f roo far off.

 

I mentioned well up thread that I can't see Hornby spending money on new tooling for 'traditional' wagons in 00.   The area has become much more competitive in the past year or two and, maybe even more worrying for Hornby (if they are awake to what is happening?), the pace of new releases from Rapido in particular seems to be being sustained.  Thus, with their longer lead times, spending money in this area would, I think, represent a potential risk for Hornby especially when they have plenty of other things, now including of course TT120, demanding investment cash when they have already built up substantial borrowings so far this year.

 

It might well be that one or two projects which have been under development could possibly still make it to market dependng on where they sit in the process and the amount of money already spent?  But i still wonder if we'll see anything.

 

I agree, but you can't blame a bloke for trying. 😀

 

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, Mark Lilley said:

One more from me but I would also like to see Hornby,

Producing the A2/2 and A2/3 in actual BR livery, rather than that awful washed out green-that has stopped me from buying one of each.

and

Doing a further run of Coronation Scot and its coaches that seemed to be around for only a few months.

 

 

Due imminently.

 

Says Winter 2022/2023 on the website.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/search?encoded=PcoxDsIwDEDRqzB5Q4IDWFyhA3vkpFZaNdip7Qy5PR0Q25fefxn7aPGenbGbrqMENJK6UGy4qUme93FAoeCqNpFaS7_PwUdOfyn6ybvwCueVpkKxq9y8aICrRcoTH9CpMj6_

 

And December 2022 at Kernow.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/74268/R40051-*-Hornby-LMS-Stanier-D1905-Coronation-Scot-57ft-BTK-5792

 

 

Jason

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Having given up on predictions due to never having got one right, I decided not to comment on the Bachmann Christmas announcement thread that I thought the surprise model would be a mainline Hunslet with a tender...

 

So, with renewed enthusiasm, my prediction is that if the Black 5 is being redone, the Rebuilt MN is due for a revamp too. I would like to stress 'due' rather than 'required' as I think most post 'super detail' era models stand up pretty well to scrutiny. I'd rather see new ground covered like a SR U, SR Q or LNER K4.

 

Failing that, as others have suggested, perhaps the 8F is in line at some point. Another that I appreciate can be improved, but doesn't necessarily need it.

 

It will be interesting to see if the move in TT leads to a slightly watered down feeling to the OO announcement.

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

Having given up on predictions due to never having got one right, I decided not to comment on the Bachmann Christmas announcement thread that I thought the surprise model would be a mainline Hunslet with a tender...

 

So, with renewed enthusiasm, my prediction is that if the Black 5 is being redone, the Rebuilt MN is due for a revamp too. I would like to stress 'due' rather than 'required' as I think most post 'super detail' era models stand up pretty well to scrutiny. I'd rather see new ground covered like a SR U, SR Q or LNER K4.

 

Failing that, as others have suggested, perhaps the 8F is in line at some point. Another that I appreciate can be improved, but doesn't necessarily need it.

 

It will be interesting to see if the move in TT leads to a slightly watered down feeling to the OO announcement.

 

The existing MN is, indeed, a pretty decent model on most levels but I just don't need/want any more of the combinations produced up to now (2nd/3rd Series locos with 5100g and 6000g tenders) and, TBH, that would apply even with a re-tool!

 

Hornby will sell me more rebuilt MNs when they come up with the "missing" tender bodies and other detail variations enabling them to offer models of the remaining third of the class, whether the loco is fully retooled or not.

 

I'd jump at two out of the three "gap fillers" you mention but as "pessimists get surprises, optimists get disappointments", I'm actively damping down any hopes/dreams I might harbour relating to wholly new OO items being announced next week.

 

What I'm expecting is that Hornby's attentions this year will centre on TT:120 and revamping existing OO cash-cows to incorporate the new smoke feature, both of which, I expect, (superfluous spoiler alert) to be "mentioned" relentlessly in the forthcoming second TV series.

 

Currently, others look set to continue giving my wallet a decent enough work-out if Hornby doesn't announce anything new to tempt me.

 

However, this particular "pessimist" would love to get at least one "surprise" on the 10th. 

 

John

[adb968008]

Will there be one catalog, or one each for TT / OO ?

 

If its TT/OO combined, retailers could be in a quandry, selling a catalog, part of which they cannot supply and actively redirects business from themselves to Hornbys website.

[spamcan61]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Will there be one catalog, or one each for TT / OO ?

 

If its TT/OO combined, retailers could be in a quandry, selling a catalog, part of which they cannot supply and actively redirects business from themselves to Hornbys website.

The current TT catalogue covers items now due up to early 2025, so I doubt we'll see another one soon. Apart from that, given that the last thing Hornby want to do is cannabilise their OO sales to bolster TT then I'd expect them to keep the two ranges as separate as possible in most ways.

[RAF96]

I wonder if the long awaited and oft promised loco detection system for Railmaster gets a mention, even if only to make us cringe about the price of the various bits.

[DutyDruid]

On 15/12/2022 at 14:57, newbryford said:

And maybe selling it via retailers.

I've come very late to the party this year due to a house move and Open Reach deciding that they want to put us on "fibre to the house" which means I have to find a coffee bar to get reliable internet...

 

Talking to retailers where we lived in Hampshire and now where we live in Devon the consensus is that they want to dump their dealer network and move entirely online, and that it will take direct intervention at "deity level" to stop it happening.

[papagolfjuliet]

On 31/12/2022 at 17:42, D9020 Nimbus said:

The J21 is the one I'd like to see but it's not really a "coal train" loco. Unlike the Raven Pacifics, there is at least a survivor although it doesn't seem to have received much love and care over the years…

 

The J21 is now undergoing a Lottery-funded overhaul by the Locomotive Conservation & Learning Trust and upon completion will be based at Kirkby Stephen East. The Trust are overhauling an NER stores van and a pair of NER six wheel coaches to run with it.

 

https://www.facebook.com/J2165033 

 

http://www.lclt.org.uk/about-us.html#:~:text=The Locomotive Conservation and Learning,history and supporting traditional skills.

 

https://www.kirkbystepheneast.co.uk/the-cumbrian-victorian-locomotive-experience-project.html

 

 

[Invicta]

On 01/01/2023 at 11:04, Dunsignalling said:

The thing I would like to see (from anybody) would be some decent LMS vacuum-fitted ventilated vans. The Bachmann one is a mis-proportioned mess and the Dapol/old Airfix model, whilst very decent "above the waist" considering its elderly origins, is of a BR derivative. 

 

Unfortunately the prototypes varied so much that our OO r-t-r producers could each pick one diagram without any duplication being inevitable!

 

 

On 01/01/2023 at 12:08, The Stationmaster said:

The way things are going nowadays I suspect it's more likely to appear from someone other than Hornby.  And at the rate a couple of companies are going we could perhaps hope that it might not be f roo far off.

 

I mentioned well up thread that I can't see Hornby spending money on new tooling for 'traditional' wagons in 00.   The area has become much more competitive in the past year or two and, maybe even more worrying for Hornby (if they are awake to what is happening?), the pace of new releases from Rapido in particular seems to be being sustained.  Thus, with their longer lead times, spending money in this area would, I think, represent a potential risk for Hornby especially when they have plenty of other things, now including of course TT120, demanding investment cash when they have already built up substantial borrowings so far this year.

 

It might well be that one or two projects which have been under development could possibly still make it to market dependng on where they sit in the process and the amount of money already spent?  But i still wonder if we'll see anything.

 

I'd be frankly amazed not to see an LMS van in the next year or two, but suspect that in the light of the fairly recent D1666 open announcement, it will come from Rapido rather than Hornby- it seems like a totally logical follow-up to the open for Rapido, given the way they've approached their SECR and GWR wagon releases recently -and I can see Stationmaster's point about Hornby being preoccupied with TT120 etc. rather than re/new-tooled 'traditional' wagons.

 

Having said that, I've probably guaranteed an LMS van announcement from Margate next week, it'll just be a re-tool of the Palethorpes Sausage van!

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

I've come very late to the party this year due to a house move and Open Reach deciding that they want to put us on "fibre to the house" which means I have to find a coffee bar to get reliable internet...

 

Talking to retailers where we lived in Hampshire and now where we live in Devon the consensus is that they want to dump their dealer network and move entirely online, and that it will take direct intervention at "deity level" to stop it happening.

 

I think these retailers are talking out of their bottom....

 

Hornby just hasn't got the warehousing capacity to sell everything online only. They would need a warehouse the size of an average Amazon hub and employ about 1000 people and skilled pickers don't work for minimum wage.

 

For reference Hattons have about 100 staff and employ more at busy periods.

 

Just not happening.

 

 

Jason

Edited January 2, 2023 by Steamport Southport