TT:120 Scotsman

[Pmorgancym]

Rather than burying it in the main TT thread..

 

I don't have one, but I want to know what the product is like.

 

So have you bought one?  What's it like.  I've seen some FB videos of the set running and I'm not overly impressed, the ones I've seen sound very noisy, a bit like you'd expect a cheap train set to sound.  But prove me wrong....

[PaulRhB]

It runs well and quietly on the Kato controller on my test track. I haven’t actually used the set controller but I do note that has a hi / lo switch on the back so I will endeavour to try it out and see if that makes a difference to the reported noise as it seems to be that rather than the loco as others have reported it’s also quiet when they switched to their Gaugemaster controllers. 

 

 

 

Detail is good, it runs slowly and smoothly on Peco code 55 including points, far line, and over the large plastic frog on the Hornby code 80, near line. 
Can’t report on haulage ability as there are only three coaches but it seems weighty and I don’t expect any issues. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Les1952]

Just out of interest the speaker it appears goes into the tender.  Whereabouts is the blanking plate for the chip?

 

Les

[Nile]

This video includes a shot of the service sheet (@ 3:30).

 

 

[tommyliam021]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

It runs well and quietly on the Kato controller on my test track. I haven’t actually used the set controller but I do note that has a hi / lo switch on the back so I will endeavour to try it out and see if that makes a difference to the reported noise as it seems to be that rather than the loco as others have reported it’s also quiet when they switched to their Gaugemaster controllers. 

 

 

 

Detail is good, it runs slowly and smoothly on Peco code 55 including points, far line, and over the large plastic frog on the Hornby code 80, near line. 
Can’t report on haulage ability as there are only three coaches but it seems weighty and I don’t expect any issues. 

The front buffer beam appears to be pointing slightly down, is the running board diecast or plastic?

[PaulRhB]

23 minutes ago, tommyliam021 said:

The front buffer beam appears to be pointing slightly down, is the running board diecast or plastic?

It has a very slight droop but only really apparent looking low down. It’s plastic so if you cut the frame above the front truck wheel you could pack it out if it concerns you. 
 

3 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Just out of interest the speaker it appears goes into the tender.  Whereabouts is the blanking plate for the chip?

Further to Neil’s ref

 

[micklner]

Nearside Boiler Handrail has a droop too in the centre. Livery is well done.

[Hilux5972]

14 hours ago, micklner said:

Nearside Boiler Handrail has a droop too in the centre. 

Show me a boiler handrail in OO that is perfectly straight. 

[micklner]

99% on models are just look at pictures !!

[luke_stevens]

Tried out my brother set this morning (his present to himself) and all seemed fine. Ran smoothly, was quiet at the start and got quieter. The controller is a little fast with the A1 and 3rd radius curves. Track is a bit of a struggle to put together. I was fine but my brother isn't a modeller and struggled.

 

Our only puzzlement is that whist the loco is 2550, the tender is definitely 4472! I haven't seen this anywhere else on the web so might just be us, but I suspect there may be a few like this!

 

I took several photos and the tender is the same both sides...

 

Luke

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by luke_stevens

[Roy L S]

On 17/12/2022 at 09:08, PaulRhB said:

It runs well and quietly on the Kato controller on my test track. I haven’t actually used the set controller but I do note that has a hi / lo switch on the back so I will endeavour to try it out and see if that makes a difference to the reported noise as it seems to be that rather than the loco as others have reported it’s also quiet when they switched to their Gaugemaster controllers. 

 

 

 

Detail is good, it runs slowly and smoothly on Peco code 55 including points, far line, and over the large plastic frog on the Hornby code 80, near line. 
Can’t report on haulage ability as there are only three coaches but it seems weighty and I don’t expect any issues. 

Many thanks for posting the pictures.

 

It could just be me but I am really struggling to see past those wide wheel treads and "pizza cutter" flanges, it is a total contradiction to the beautifully fine valve-gear. 

 

Regards

 

Roy

[Taigatrommel]

Although I'm 100% a fan of 1:120 TT, I wholly acknowledge that the standards may not be to everyone's liking.  I here illustrate Roco (02 201), Tillig (01 502) and Arnold (95 1027) to show the general wheel standards of the scale/gauge.  The track is 1.8mm high, i.e. approx code 70.  If they are coarse to your eyes, then RTR 1:120 might not be for you.  As time goes by, perhaps proto:120 might join the scene.  I don't know, it's all down to what any individual likes!

Edited December 18, 2022 by Taigatrommel

[René Cortis]

@luke_stevens It seems you got the tender from the 4472 «Flying Scotsman».

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, Taigatrommel said:

Although I'm 100% a fan of 1:120 TT, I wholly acknowledge that the standards may not be to everyone's liking.  I here illustrate Roco (02 201), Tillig (01 502) and Arnold (95 1027) to show the general wheel standards of the scale/gauge.  The track is 1.8mm high, i.e. approx code 70.  If they are coarse to your eyes, then RTR 1:120 might not be for you.  As time goes by, perhaps proto:120 might join the scene.  I don't know, it's all down to what any individual likes!

 

Rail sides can always be painted rusty brown to hide their height- something else modellers with exhibition layouts have been doing in all scales for years.

 

Les

 

[Taigatrommel]

19 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

Rail sides can always be painted rusty brown to hide their height- something else modellers with exhibition layouts have been doing in all scales for years.

 

Les

 

Yes, but I'd suggest not painting the wheel treads and flanges! 😆

[luke_stevens]

12 hours ago, René Cortis said:

@luke_stevens It seems you got the tender from the 4472 «Flying Scotsman».

 

Yes! It seems to be a bit of a surprise to all, including Hornby!

 

Luke

[jjb1970]

I think wheel standards may look worse in photograph's than in real life. I am an enthusiast of Japanese N, in photograph's they often have pizza cutter wheels which look awful but I really don't find them to be a problem when I have the models in the hand and operate them.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Somewhere there is probably a Flying Scotsman with the crest on the cab instead of the number and Blink Bonny's tender…

[Ravenser]

9 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Rail sides can always be painted rusty brown to hide their height- something else modellers with exhibition layouts have been doing in all scales for years.

 

Les

 

 

Code 55 track will be readily available from Peco. But the wheels will just have to be lived with

[Les1952]

23 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Code 55 track will be readily available from Peco. But the wheels will just have to be lived with

 

Code 55 still needs to be painted, even in N.

 

 

 

 

Wrong A4 for the TT:120 Pullman set expected next year...

 

Les

 

[JSpencer]

On 17/12/2022 at 10:08, PaulRhB said:

It runs well and quietly on the Kato controller on my test track. I haven’t actually used the set controller but I do note that has a hi / lo switch on the back so I will endeavour to try it out and see if that makes a difference to the reported noise as it seems to be that rather than the loco as others have reported it’s also quiet when they switched to their Gaugemaster controllers. 

 

They still do a Hi/lo switch from the old H&M days? "Hi" on the 70s H&M controlers will make todays low consumption motors shoot off like a rocket. While lo was useful for heating up the room.

I wonder if they really need a Hi/lo setting these days. It is not like as if today you will be running a Wrenn loco one minute (needing tons of juice) and a Mainline loco the next (needing less). Even Heljan motors consume less than their 80s counterparts.

 

Anyway, if it makes a noise then maybe the Hi/lo button has been mixed with that other H&M feature, the half wave switch! Which makes just about any motor noisy even back then.

 

 

[spamcan61]

On 21/12/2022 at 09:38, JSpencer said:

Anyway, if it makes a noise then maybe the Hi/lo button has been mixed with that other H&M feature, the half wave switch! Which makes just about any motor noisy even back then.

 

 

I'm wondering if the Flying Scotsman motor (which is a small can, not coreless) is susceptible to creating acoustic noise, depending on the controller waveform, as with the OO Bachmann Class 158 discussed elsewhere. It would be interesting to subject a noisy TT:120 Flying Scotsman to the 9V battery test. 

 

Update Feb 2023

Now I've got my own A4 based set I've had a play myself:-

 

The acoustic noise goes away when using a 'proper' controller is used, I can't understand why Hornby have used a controller with a pulse repetition frequency of 160Hz, I would expect it to be at least an order of magnitude higher than that to avoid acoustic noise generation and improve compatibility with coreless motors (which may or may not matter in TT:120 in the long term)

Edited February 7, 2023 by spamcan61
updates

[JSpencer]

19 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I'm wondering if the Flying Scotsman motor (which is a small can, not coreless) is susceptible to creating acoustic noise, depending on the controller waveform, as with the OO Bachmann Class 158 discussed elsewhere. It would be interesting to subject a noisy TT:120 Flying Scotsman to the 9V battery test. 

 

It is the contacts to the motor itself (in the case of a can). We used to have a customer once who would shape the ends of Wrenn, Hornby and Lima carbon brushes to give each loco a different note! Not sure if he managed to make a song with them though lol.

[NCB]

I can't stand the Hornby 00 wheel treads; too shiny which makes them stand out. The TT ones look to me much more discreet to me and should be OK in practise.

[Steamport Southport]

40 minutes ago, NCB said:

I can't stand the Hornby 00 wheel treads; too shiny which makes them stand out. The TT ones look to me much more discreet to me and should be OK in practise.

 

On what though?

 

Hornby haven't had shiny wheels for years apart from maybe some of the Railroad models. They're blackened.

 

 

 

 

 

Photos borrowed from Hattons.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited December 22, 2022 by Steamport Southport