Popular Post Jol Wilkinson Posted December 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) I have been asked to post the following, "Coopercraft - some Christmas cheer Following years of despair from modellers up and down the country about the inability to get product from Paul Dunn, he has finally sold most of the ranges. The Kirk and Mailcoach LNER coach ranges have been sold to Phoenix Precision Paints Ltd. Details can be found on the Kirk LNER Coaches section of www.phoenix-paints.co.uk Coopercraft has been sold to Cambrian Model Rail Ltd. See www.coopercraft.co.uk for more information Currently the Blacksmiths 4mm range is still owned by Paul Dunn. Neither Phoenix Precision Paints Ltd or Cambrian Model Rail Ltd. have taken on any debts or liabilities relating to outstanding orders or monies paid to Paul Dunn trading as Coopercraft prior to the dates set out in either website and neither company can enter into discussions regarding such matters." Please note that I have no further information and cannot answer any queries, which should be addressed directly to PPP or Cambrian. Edited December 20, 2022 by Jol Wilkinson 10 4 15 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted December 19, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2022 Posted by Ian Kirk himself on the Gauge O Guild forum over the weekend. Quote I have just had an e mail from Chris Stapleton (Phoenix Paints etc) to say that the 4mm kits have been saved and he had just returned after driving down to collect the moulds. Phoenix are basically plastic moulders and have the right expertise and equipment. In fact they already have and produce my old 4mm Southern coach kits. I wonder if the eBay seller of two unbuilt (all 3rd and composite) Quad Art sets will still get his £600? In a previous posting (before the announcement from Cambrian and Phoenix Precision), he had also given a brief history of his involvement in a number of different businesses. Quote During my 50 years of Trading I have started several businesses/ranges some I sold on some I closed. The 4mm wagon kits (and the first few O gauge ones) that I sold to Richard to start Parkside was undoubtedly a success. My 4mm coach range, sold originally to Colin Ashby was fine while he had it, likewise the Mailcoach range that I sold to Tony Brown. but on their retirement both of these are now with someone in Somerset who has never as far as I can see produced successful mouldings and destroyed two moulding machines in the process. (and declines offers of help) Worse he has a very good website which can take orders and payment and he is not good at communication thereafter. There are pages on Rm web about this. The coach range has my name on it.... In my semi retirement I still have the O gauge coach range. I have no plans to sell it on. . 8 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted December 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2022 Dammit, that's my retirement stash gone down in value 🤣 No - that's wonderful news - Phoenix definitely the right place for them (appropriate name too!). 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Great news, hopefully I'll be able to get the quad and quint articulated coach sets, that I missed when Ian was producing them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Yippee! I've been picking up occasional ones when I found them for a reasonable price. But hopefully now I can buy with a bit more focus. One thing that a lot of people didn't realise was many of them weren't duplicated elsewhere by manufacturers such as Comet and MJT. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 NB: Phoenix are asking for people's priorities for production. (Of course, now will be when we see the RTR Quad-Art announcement). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted December 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, Mark Dickerson said: NB: Phoenix are asking for people's priorities for production. (Of course, now will be when we see the RTR Quad-Art announcement). nah, it will be announced the minute I complete the one I have been building from a Kirk kit the last few (?) years. 😩 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 But how much would we be talking considering the latest RTR coach announcement for a pair of bog standard GWR coaches in a simple livery is £170 RRP? A bit less from some retailers. https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-b-set-coaches/ Even if Hornby do one it would be well north of £200. Not a comment about prices, but I would expect a RTR set of LNER Quad Arts to be nearer to the £400 mark. Current Phoenix price for the SR coaches is £25 each or £65 for the three car Bullied set. I would expect the Quad Arts to be about £100 or so. I'll stick to the plastic kits with some detailing parts from Comet/MJT/etc.! Jason 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said: But how much would we be talking considering the latest RTR coach announcement for a pair of bog standard GWR coaches in a simple livery is £170 RRP? A bit less from some retailers. https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-b-set-coaches/ Even if Hornby do one it would be well north of £200. Not a comment about prices, but I would expect a RTR set of LNER Quad Arts to be nearer to the £400 mark. Current Phoenix price for the SR coaches is £25 each or £65 for the three car Bullied set. I would expect the Quad Arts to be about £100 or so. I'll stick to the plastic kits with some detailing parts from Comet/MJT/etc.! Jason Hornby seem to (until the next price rise) be able to bring coaches in at c.£60 and Bachmann (their new Bulleids) around a tenner more. On that basis I'd reckon a Hornby Quad-Art might sneak in just under £250 at todays prices, but probably your figure if for release mid-2024 or later. Given the extent of Hornby price rises while inflation was low, I'd not be surprised to see them hiked by a total of 30 to 40% during 2023. Kirk Kits are very basic; what Americans would call a "Craftsman's Kit". Without quite a lot of additional material, they won't get within a country mile of current r-t-r standards. Thus, how much can be saved by kit-building is entirely dependent on what level of detail one considers acceptable. Food for thought. A few years ago I did a bang-up job on a Kirk Bulleid 59' 3-set. Pretty much everything under the floor (which, in the kits, isn't much) was replaced and added-to using cast and etched parts, close couplers, the lot. I spent almost a month of my available modelling time building them and was very pleased with the result (though my painting left a bit to be desired). However, my total spend came out within pennies of the then-current RRP of a 3-set of Hornby Maunsells. No doubt the cost of all the bits will also have risen substantially since then, too. I'm not in need of a Quad-Art set via either route (assuming one becomes available r-t-r), but I'd now only choose to kit-build were I doing so for the pleasure of it. As with my Bulleids, I'd expect emulating r-t-r detail and features on Kirk foundations to (as near as dammit) equal the cost of the r-t-r. John . Edited December 20, 2022 by Dunsignalling 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I agree that the kit would be useful, I don't think a RTR version would wholly negate demand - just make it less of a priority (I'd guess at a Quint-Art as more likely in RTR rather than 2 4-coach Quad-Arts, for the full formation, either way I'd hate to see PPP partly hit). You can of course make the Kirk kits to a more basic standard and I have both low- and full-fat... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2022 I've always thought the basic Kirks make a good carcass for a Brass Sides conversion jobbie. OK, not cheap BUT you get something not available RTR (e.g Mousa Sides used?) Just for fun of course. Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted December 20, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2022 Glad to see the Kirk kits re-emerge from the darkness. What happened to the N gauge Westwater & Kirk kits btw? Anyway, I’ve just noticed that “Kirk” is misspelt as “Klrk” in the thread title, which means it won’t be found by a forum search. Easily done, but could the thread owner correct the spelling for the sake of the archives? RichardT 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Did PPP get the tools for Kirk/Mailcoach GWR P18 Monster? No sign of a GWR category on their website. Regards Duncan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 46 minutes ago, drduncan said: Did PPP get the tools for Kirk/Mailcoach GWR P18 Monster? No sign of a GWR category on their website. Regards Duncan Didn't they also do a top light steel sided passenger brake van 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Yes, I believe they did. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted December 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2022 17 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: Kirk Kits are very basic; what Americans would call a "Craftsman's Kit". Without quite a lot of additional material, they won't get within a country mile of current r-t-r standards. Thus, how much can be saved by kit-building is entirely dependent on what level of detail one considers acceptable. Basic perhaps but I wouldn’t say “very” basic. with a bit of care and attention they can be built into very smart coaches. I have added wire handrails and (with a lot of help and encouragement from Mike Trice) underframe battery boxes and bracing using plasticard. Much more fun and satisfying than an rtr coach in my view. Great news that Phoenix is taking on the range. Cheers Darius (who also has a couple of Kirk Quad-Art kits and a Quint in the stash) 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymzHatstand Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 This is good news indeed! I've managed to pick up several teaks of various guises from an array of sources over the years, but oddly not a suitable selection to make a full train (not a realistic one anyway!) This is one a non corridor brake third with MJT under-gubbins and other extra details from plastic strip. It's still awaiting lettering and glazing, but was certainly worth a little extra work! I had started making a Tourist set from the Mailcoach kits before they became unavailable, so them seeing the light again will be nice (even if the full sides moulded in clear plastic is a modelling challenge at times!) The request from PPP as to which kits would be wanted is a good idea, but I was wondering if there is a list anywhere, or if anyone has one, of what kits/carriage diagrams are actually in the range. Very much looking forward to the reintroduction, and I'm sure MJT are just as excited about the resulting purchase of plenty of underframe bits and other details! Cheers J 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 I'm no good at painting & lining, and what I particularly liked about the Kirk kits was that left as the unpainted plastic they were moulded in, they were a better representation of teak than I would ever be able to produce. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2022 12 hours ago, drduncan said: Did PPP get the tools for Kirk/Mailcoach GWR P18 Monster? No sign of a GWR category on their website. Regards Duncan The Monster is listed on the GWR page in the 4mm section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted December 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2022 Monster LNER Coaches 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 My namesakes kits are a classic case of the more you put in, the better results you get. Cutting and shutting beckons. Mind, look up all the auld Steve Banks article's - especially if soldering is a dark art to you... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Good to see the GE shortie corridors and the Driving Trailer on the list. Jason 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Does anyone know if the K22 will appear in either Phoenix or Cambrian’s new acquisitions? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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