GWR O11/15 Opens and V14/16 Vans - order book now open!

[Aire Head]

20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

also fitted opens, excepting those of the SR - were there any?

 

TTBOMK (am I allowed to say that 😉) some of the SR built 7 Plank merchandise opens were built as Vacuum braked.

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Drawing 46170 (fitted brakes) confirms the distance between the vac cylinder centre and the V hanger to be 18", so I am guessing it was also 18" on the earlier wagons with the offset V, but with the vac cylinder being mounted closer to the centre of the wagon.

 

@Dunsignalling yes I imagine that having a single size of push rods etc. to keep in stock that would work for both fitted and unfitted wagons would have been appealing.

 

 As John Dunsignalling has mentioned, the central large Vee locates the cross shaft bar. The smaller Vee cradles the vacuum cylinder trunnions. The vacuum cylinders always had the same stroke; the diameter allowed greater force to be applied.

[Wickham Green too]

5 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

TTBOMK (am I allowed to say that 😉) some of the SR built 7 Plank merchandise opens were built as Vacuum braked.

Yes ........ but not very many !

[Dunsignalling]

19 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

TTBOMK (am I allowed to say that 😉) some of the SR built 7 Plank merchandise opens were built as Vacuum braked.

SR standard merchandise wagons were of 8-planks. IIRC even the 10' wheelbase ones were unfitted until BR days. 

 

Any fitted 7-planks would most likely have been the SECR type, construction of which was continued after 1923. 

 

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the 100 8-plank rebuilds to Dia. 1385 and the Dia.1387/8 wagons built for Dover Ferry traffic. Possibly a couple of other small batches, but the table in SR wagons 4 is too small to read until I find my magnifying glass!

Edited December 24, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Miss Prism]

[Aire Head]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

SR standard merchandise wagons were of 8-planks. IIRC even the 10' wheelbase ones were unfitted until BR days. 

 

I've always been one plank short according to most!

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

SR standard merchandise wagons were of 8-planks.

Already in the Rapido queue, I think, with multiple variations. 

[Aire Head]

7 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

That's a nice Midland D664 at the head of the train 

[J-Mo Arts]

12 hours ago, Clearwater said:

Aren’t we missing a nice GWR freight loco to haul these? An Aberdare could fit the mark?

The wagons also would look good stuck on the back of a small prairie and B-set train ;) 

[Miss Prism]

This is not a mixed goods, as I understand all the wagons are fitted. Not unusual at Falmouth (apparently), and often some of the wagons were opens.

 

[Hal Nail]

Don't self contained buffers present problems for tooling? Something to do with all the angles preventing release from a mould?

 

Pecos 7mm ones come in two parts which has been suggested on here was for that reason (though could equally be they use brass to get an acceptably thin casing) and Minerva's 7mm version of these wagons have rather curious buffers which was put down to the limitations of moulding.

 

The ones at the top of the thread look pretty good.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Don't self contained buffers present problems for tooling? Something to do with all the angles preventing release from a mould?

 

Pecos 7mm ones come in two parts which has been suggested on here was for that reason (though could equally be they use brass to get an acceptably thin casing) and Minerva's 7mm version of these wagons have rather curious buffers which was put down to the limitations of moulding.

 

The ones at the top of the thread look pretty good.

The ones on Rapido's SECR vans and opens look pretty good with no apparent trace of mould lines to reveal how they did it.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Don't self contained buffers present problems for tooling? Something to do with all the angles preventing release from a mould? ... The ones at the top of the thread look pretty good.

The SECR ones are, indeed, moulded in two sections : most of the body forms one part but the lip is included as part of the head moulding ............... little different from the way Bachmann, for instance, have been doing wagon buffers for years except those are moulded with the headstock ( etc.) with a turned metal head.

[tomparryharry]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Don't self contained buffers present problems for tooling? Something to do with all the angles preventing release from a mould?

 

Pecos 7mm ones come in two parts which has been suggested on here was for that reason (though could equally be they use brass to get an acceptably thin casing) and Minerva's 7mm version of these wagons have rather curious buffers which was put down to the limitations of moulding.

 

The ones at the top of the thread look pretty good.

 it does depend on the fragility of he item you're making. For ease of production, some manufacturers might opt for separate buffers, leaving the headstock pretty clear. Thus far, those S/C buffers look pretty good to me. 

[tomparryharry]

I've just had another look at these new models, (nice, BTW).  These are merely observations. The open versions are pretty spot-on.  The Mink sports  2 different  types of door. The earlier type had an inverted diagonal support across the two side doors. The other type is for the later doors, which are probably middle '30's. This is not in itself a problem, as doors could & would get converted and/or repaired, as required. The hold back cleats  for earlier vans were rebated onto the uprights of the door, whilst they were incorporated into the bottom strap hinge & diagonal of the later, vertical planked door.

[No Decorum]

On 23/12/2022 at 23:51, Clearwater said:

Aren’t we missing a nice GWR freight loco to haul these? An Aberdare could fit the mark?

I wouldn’t disagree with that at all but I have now assembled a nice SECR train: loco, wagons and brake van. Of course, it isn’t authentic and what I want the GWR wagons for is to provide a more realistic mix. Wagons from other companies (and POs) would be very welcome.

[Covkid]

On 23/12/2022 at 23:51, Clearwater said:

Aren’t we missing a nice GWR freight loco to haul these? An Aberdare could fit the mark?

 

Most definitely up for one of those.  At least one made it's way to Barmouth via Ruabon and Dolgelley once. 

 

I always thought I would have to wait until I was nearly dead to see an RTR one, after attempting and failing a K's kit back in the late 1970s. However, with Rapido, Dapol, Accurascale as well as the "big two"all producing GWR models perhaps it is much nearer than that !!!   

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

...  Wagons from other companies (and POs) would be very welcome.

POs meaning not just nice liveries but accurate wagons with nice liveries ! .......... though, as has been pointed out ( ad-nauseum ? ) there was an awful lot of variation in such wagons prior to the 1923 RCH standard.

[hmrspaul]

On 24/12/2022 at 11:49, The Johnster said:

 

 

 

These are a bit more difficult to recreate by repainting, as the effect of new seasoned wood is not easy to achieve, nor is that of it a while later when it becomes faded and bleached.  The steel end stanchions and strapping of such wagons was painted black, but rusted after some time in service. 

 

 

Sorry but there is no reason they were black, the colour of a departmental wagon. The frames were black but the steel work was in body colour - grey or red. What I haven't sorted is when BR began to paint the bodies of steel framed opens fully instead of leaving the wood unpainted. 

 

I believe for the 7mm model Dapol have mis-interpreted a photo in LMS wagons were the steel work is dark - it should be as it the LMS scheme for an unfitted wagon would have been bauxite, which shows as dark on b/w photos. 

 

And yes I agree a difficult livery to reproduce, the unpainted wood. I've had a couple of attempts in 7mm and they do get commented on (including repainting the Dapol one into grey steelwork instead of black). 

 

Paul

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

I suspect the Johnster was referring to painting the metalwork black on wartime builds ..... that is how SR dia.1375  Opens should have been finished  -  though photographic evidence indicates that some, at least, had ironwork in 'normal' body colour.

[The Johnster]

Oh dear, tx for the correction!  I must now overpaint my steelwork on the LMS open I’ve done in unpainted livery, a job for later this evening.  The wagon in question is no doubt incorrectly numbered and probably an unsuitable prototype for a late 40s/early 50s build anyway; it’s a bit if a Rule 1 punt tbh!

 

Pity; did the black frames 2 days ago and rust-weathered then yesterday, and was quite pleased with the results…

[Aire Head]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Pity; did the black frames 2 days ago and rust-weathered then yesterday, and was quite pleased with the results…

 

We have all been there on that one! I fell into the trap of painting the Airfix meat van in BR Bauxite for my usual 1955 era only to read the day after I varnished it that it should be Crimson 😅

[The Johnster]

Then Trix, and much more recently Hornby, released it as RTR in bauxite; I am given to understand that both liveries are correct.  Crimson was the correct NPCCS livery for 1955 except for some BG’s in Carmine & Cream, but is anomalous for a meat van numbered in the freight stock series.  I’m sure there’s a reason for this but I’ve no idea what it is.  My own crimson liveried Dapol/Kitmaster was retired last month on receipt of the new bauxite Hornby, a lovely little model. 

[tomparryharry]

Reading through some of these posts & pages, it occurred to me that here we are, having open conversations with the manufacturers/commissioners about prospective new models. No hissy fits, and teddies remain tucked up.  Wonderful! There appears to be a lot of openness going on, with observations being backed up with facts, figures; drawings & photos.   I'm looking forward personally. 

 

Other manufacturers  will have to note (hopefully) that the overall bar might well be raised.  "The brand K wagon is very, very good,  but the brand Q might have the edge, as Rapido appear to have garnered a prodigious amount of background material for this project".

[RapidoCorbs]

8 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Reading through some of these posts & pages, it occurred to me that here we are, having open conversations with the manufacturers/commissioners about prospective new models. No hissy fits, and teddies remain tucked up.  Wonderful! There appears to be a lot of openness going on, with observations being backed up with facts, figures; drawings & photos.   I'm looking forward personally. 

 

Other manufacturers  will have to note (hopefully) that the overall bar might well be raised.  "The brand K wagon is very, very good,  but the brand Q might have the edge, as Rapido appear to have garnered a prodigious amount of background material for this project".

I have said it before but it is always worth saying again; we are incredibly grateful for the knowledge and assistance that people give us on RMWeb and elsewhere to help us improve what we make. We are all modellers too and want to be able to sell things that we would want to purchase.