Hornby 2023 - Diesel & Electric locomotives/units

[Knapdale]

34 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Anyone know if the EWS train pack is a proper full detail 67 or the Railroad one?

Judging by the price and the couplings in the picture, it’s the full detail one. 

[sawyermodels]

33 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Anyone know if the EWS train pack is a proper full detail 67 or the Railroad one?

It's meant to be the super detailed Class 67, with all wheel drive, NEM couplings, 21 pin socket and directional lighting. The MK2s are also meant to be the latest tooling with NEM couplings. 

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, Stuart A said:

 

 

I see the Margate "spin the wheel" train set wagon selector has been used to full effect again

I mean - I often saw a red stripe class 20 in the 1990s with a inner PTA tippler without buffing gear in a livery that sort of was applied to them many years later, an FFA inner with containers from the future, and a breakdown train coach which isn't a wagon.  At least the brake van is in scope.....

 

Oh and the loco is carrying name and livery inc overhead warning flashed from the 2010s onwards.

 

Apart from that, spot on.

 

 

I do wonder what decisions go into the content of these sets. I get that they need to be built to a budget, but it should surely be possible to create something of interest that still hits the price point, maintaining some credibility. 

[black and decker boy]

10 minutes ago, sawyermodels said:

It's meant to be the super detailed Class 67, with all wheel drive, NEM couplings, 21 pin socket and directional lighting. The MK2s are also meant to be the latest tooling with NEM couplings. 

Bit confused by the EWS Business Ciach pack in EWS lined maroon.

 

the EWS / DB Business train is mk3 based. The mark 2s were used on chargers and on the Fife circle Scotrail loco hauled services. I think none are now in EWS service.

 

Presume it’s just wrong description by Hornby and not Mk2s masquerading as MK3s?

[JDW]

13 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I do wonder what decisions go into the content of these sets. I get that they need to be built to a budget, but it should surely be possible to create something of interest that still hits the price point, maintaining some credibility. 

 

I thought the same. On the one hand, it's a train set so lots of different colours, different wagons, one that you can put something in, one that you can load containers on and off, plus a bright yellow maintenance coach, it'll attract the attention of train set buyers. But I can't help feeling that something that could have built into something better more easily and usefully would be better. But maybe that's me thinking from a model railway perspective rather than a train set perspective. And I imagine that in terms of 'bang for your buck', the open wagon and container flat are pretty big wagons for their cost - what do they consist of, a floor, a body and two bogies for the hopper? 4 parts, six if you count the coupling hooks, plus four sets of wheels, quick and simple to assemble. Ditto the container wagon. I can't imagine something like (off the top of my head) an old-style HAA or TTA would cost much less, but they're only half the size which probably counts for a lot in a train set when it comes to visual appeal on the shelf. 

[sawyermodels]

20 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Bit confused by the EWS Business Ciach pack in EWS lined maroon.

 

the EWS / DB Business train is mk3 based. The mark 2s were used on chargers and on the Fife circle Scotrail loco hauled services. I think none are now in EWS service.

 

Presume it’s just wrong description by Hornby and not Mk2s masquerading as MK3s?

I know the management train was MK3, this is advertised as the business train and it says MK2s in Hornby's description about the history of the business train. All the pictures show mk2s on Hornby's website. Perhaps ask Hornby to clarify this. 

[JDW]

19 minutes ago, JDW said:

 

I thought the same. On the one hand, it's a train set so lots of different colours, different wagons, one that you can put something in, one that you can load containers on and off, plus a bright yellow maintenance coach, it'll attract the attention of train set buyers. But I can't help feeling that something that could have built into something better more easily and usefully would be better. But maybe that's me thinking from a model railway perspective rather than a train set perspective. And I imagine that in terms of 'bang for your buck', the open wagon and container flat are pretty big wagons for their cost - what do they consist of, a floor, a body and two bogies for the hopper? 4 parts, six if you count the coupling hooks, plus four sets of wheels, quick and simple to assemble. Ditto the container wagon. I can't imagine something like (off the top of my head) an old-style HAA or TTA would cost much less, but they're only half the size which probably counts for a lot in a train set when it comes to visual appeal on the shelf. 

 

Quoting myself but having said that then looked at the list of new wagons, the other reason for the blue hopper in the train set is obvious - it's essentially the same as the individual release without the large Cappagh lettering.

[JDW]

35 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Bit confused by the EWS Business Ciach pack in EWS lined maroon.

 

the EWS / DB Business train is mk3 based. The mark 2s were used on chargers and on the Fife circle Scotrail loco hauled services. I think none are now in EWS service.

 

Presume it’s just wrong description by Hornby and not Mk2s masquerading as MK3s?

 

I'm not sure even the 67+Mk3+DVT set was ever even described as a "business train" was it? I've seen it referred to as the corporate or management train but not the EWS/DB business train. The Mk2s do look a lot more like charter stock.

[rob D2]

2 hours ago, Stuart A said:

 

 

I see the Margate "spin the wheel" train set wagon selector has been used to full effect again

I mean - I often saw a red stripe class 20 in the 1990s with a inner PTA tippler without buffing gear in a livery that sort of was applied to them many years later, an FFA inner with containers from the future, and a breakdown train coach which isn't a wagon.  At least the brake van is in scope.....

 

Oh and the loco is carrying name and livery inc overhead warning flashed from the 2010s onwards.

 

Apart from that, spot on.

Haha,

A trainset to appeal to little Johnny - even if I’m not sure little Johnny exists anymore and ,if he does ,he wants the pendolino he sees everyday or a soulless identikit EMU he goes to town on.

 

Of course that’s  unless little Johnny is actually 45 and remembers railfreight class 20s 

Edited January 10, 2023 by rob D2

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

Anyone know if the EWS train pack is a proper full detail 67 or the Railroad one?

 

Guessing full detail given the price.

[TomScrut]

Bit if a dry one this year on this front. Very unusual the only Hornby pre orders I have are steam!

 

Not a complaint though, plenty on pre order.

 

GBRF 08 is an interesting one, competes with the Bachmann CC one. That might be the one thing I get, as I want a new 08 although it's not cheap!

[ruggedpeak]

I hadn't recalled ever seeing anything about this Business Train before, knew about the Management Train as modelled by Hornby previously. A little bit of research found this, confirming it did exist:

 

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2013/db-schenker-offers-former-english-welsh-and-scottish-business-train-for-sale/

 

Seems to be the lowest profile EWS/DB rolling stock ever!!

[black and decker boy]

2 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

I hadn't recalled ever seeing anything about this Business Train before, knew about the Management Train as modelled by Hornby previously. A little bit of research found this, confirming it did exist:

 

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2013/db-schenker-offers-former-english-welsh-and-scottish-business-train-for-sale/

 

Seems to be the lowest profile EWS/DB rolling stock ever!!

I think that’s just some randoms wording rather than official. The coaches listed are the MK2 charter / Fife circle ones.

[rob D2]

I’ve just watched a bit of the Hornby presentation. It’s a full fat 67, but the coaches  are deffo mk2 , in maroon 

[Pete the Elaner]

27 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Haha,

A trainset to appeal to little Johnny - even if I’m not sure little Johnny exists anymore and ,if he does ,he wants the pendolino he sees everyday or a soulless identikit EMU he goes to town on.

 

Of course that’s  unless little Johnny is actually 45 and remembers railfreight class 20s 

 

There are an increasing number of us who don't remember going to town on anything other than soulless EMUs. I don't identify with green steam & diesel, apart from 37350/D6700 in heritage green which it carried in the 90s & the odd railtour.

School was further in the past than retirement is in the future for me too.

[scouse889]

5 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

I think that’s just some randoms wording rather than official. The coaches listed are the MK2 charter / Fife circle ones.

 

Does anyone have any links to pictures of this train being used other than in 6 car formation for the Fife circle services? That's all I've been able to find on Google/Flickr. Hornby are offering 7 cars in total....

[InterCity80s]

There seem to be some pictures of similar coaches being used in Cornwall on this site: https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2f---fo---33xx.html

 

Seem to be a variety of pictures under the different coach types although nothing I've found showing a full train.

['CHARD]

4 hours ago, Stuart A said:

 

noticed another anomoly

 

 

Sorry, it is impossible to resist the irony, please forgive me: 

 

 

anomaly
/əˈnɒməli/

noun
1.
something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

[Rhydgaled]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

That was removed from the announcements following feedback from Avanti.

Interesting. Does that suggest the 805s are not just reliveried 800s but Hornby assumed they could just repaint an 800 model and Avanti have told them otherwise?

[Knapdale]

11 hours ago, Legend said:

I’d have preferred a three coach Strathclyde /BR 101 from mid 80s-90s . I thought they had produced this version with the Scotrail Swoosh before . You can’t see the front in these illustrations but I like the distinctive Met Camm full yellow ends , but I think these later 2 car units had a grey roof at the front 

For a time (1999-2000) this particular unit had one car with the grey roof at the front and the other, full yellow. Would be nice if Hornby produced it like that!!

[frobisher]

6 minutes ago, Rhydgaled said:

Interesting. Does that suggest the 805s are not just reliveried 800s but Hornby assumed they could just repaint an 800 model and Avanti have told them otherwise?

 

Or Avanti were not yet ready to reveal the working livery of the trains?

 

Regardless, as a licensee, Hornby have certain responsibilities, some of which may conflict with their ambitions, and the brakes went on for a reason, presumably at Avanti's request.  If these are in the catalogue, we might find out why when those hit the shelves, or we might find that they are not in the catalogue after all (which may or may not be connected).

 

But there are differences between the 800/801 and the 802 which the 805 is closer to.  I'd imagine any blocking issues on the differences would have been negotiated by now as the 802s that are due from Hornby are also FirstGroup franchises as well.

[TomScrut]

21 minutes ago, Rhydgaled said:

Interesting. Does that suggest the 805s are not just reliveried 800s but Hornby assumed they could just repaint an 800 model and Avanti have told them otherwise?

 

Well, the 802 (TPE one announced last year) isn't just a reliveried 800 either (in reality, I hope in model form) so I expect they are paying some attention to the differences between the Hitachi units.

800 and 801 as far as I am aware are pretty much indistinguishable from a tooling perspective, but 802s for example I think have additional cooling packs on the roof and in the case of TPE (unsure about GWR) the canteen area is smaller. There could well be some of these types of subtleties in the 805/7s.

 

The thing with the Hornby 80X is that it is too expensive to not have these details considered IMO. It is a good model in my opinion  (other than the below), maybe not value for money but I think value enough for those who want/need the classes on their layouts. I'll have 4 (2 LNER, 1 TPE, 1 Lumo) on my layout when I'm done, but it's bread and butter to Yorkshire ECML in 2019-present so almost a necessity.

 

In fairness, with 2 on my layout now my only criticisms are light bleed, the pantographs being rubbish, the lack of vertical travel on the couplers and the dummy car only having pickups on one bogie.  Not catastrophic, but for a £500+ RRP pack these items need looking at too.

 

If it was the price of their 390 then they could probably repackage all 5 classes (0,1,2,5,7) as the same exterior with different liveries.

Edited January 10, 2023 by TomScrut

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, IRC said:

Am I wrong to think that 43196 was built from new without a guards window?

 

 

(flickr url / not mine)

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by adb968008

[frobisher]

14 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Looks like it had a 2 piece split guards windows all its life until it went from vxc to fgw, then it was a solid.

 

But it doesn't appear to have the rear guards window that the initial batch had at construction which is what I think IRC is asking about.

 

But it is very, very likely as one of the last built it that picture shows its as delivered state pretty much.  ie. no guards compartment (window on door only), smoke deflectors on roof. As per Lima's tooling not Hornby's original tooling.

Edited January 10, 2023 by frobisher

[simmo009]

The Railroad 47 & 73 look like cracking value with sound fitted. I'm no expert on diesel/electric, so there may be detal issues, but these look like a good general representation without many bits to fall off.