Small Metro builds 2023

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, longchap said:

Thanks for your support and I'm getting a travelling toolbox up together for Missenden and will get a few other items from the SMRS exhibition at Barton Peveril College at Eastleigh, this next weekend.

Hi Bill - I assumed it was - I'm travelling down as well - it's an easy train ride from Bath for me and I can walk past AC models on the way from the station!

The Spring tutors for your course are Tony Gee and Tim Watson so I'm sure you'll have plenty of help and advice on hand from both them and fellow course members.

Chris

[longchap]

1 minute ago, Gilbert said:

Hi Bill - I assumed it was - I'm travelling down as well - it's an easy train ride from Bath for me and I can walk past AC models on the way from the station!

The Spring tutors for your course are Tony Gee and Tim Watson so I'm sure you'll have plenty of help and advice on hand from both them and fellow course members.

Chris

 

AC Models are a breath of fresh air, as there is no replacing the delight of looking at items in the flesh and they are just so helpful and friendly. I'm meeting @Andy Keane at Eastleigh, where we will inevitably discuss the small Metro we are both bringing to Missenden in a few weeks.

[jamieb]

I've got a Finecast kit with a Perseverance chassis in the 'never-never' box which I've had for over 30 years.This thread may inspire me to get my finger out!

[longchap]

20 minutes ago, jamieb said:

I've got a Finecast kit with a Perseverance chassis in the 'never-never' box which I've had for over 30 years.This thread may inspire me to get my finger out!

 

I'll be bold and say that most modellers have such a box. I have three; one for loco kits and two for wagons. Oh and a thrird full of Triange clestory coaches, maily brakes for the many conversions yet to take place!

 

I hope you can find inspiraton here @jamieb, at least sufficient to change the box name to 'almost never'!

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, jamieb said:

I've got a Finecast kit with a Perseverance chassis in the 'never-never' box which I've had for over 30 years.This thread may inspire me to get my finger out!

 

1 hour ago, longchap said:

 

I'll be bold and say that most modellers have such a box. I have three; one for loco kits and two for wagons. Oh and a thrird full of Triange clestory coaches, maily brakes for the many conversions yet to take place!

 

I hope you can find inspiraton here @jamieb, at least sufficient to change the box name to 'almost never'!

 

 

 

 

Its very interesting that when I first started talking about my Metro kit (Ive had for about 10 years, in a similar "projects" box) I thought it was only me that had one of these kits....

 

Now it seems there is a veritable army on-line who have bought one because it was a good idea.... and the rest as they say became history!

 

Welcome on board @jamieb, you have joined a growing club, where we will all soon be marvelling at our respective progress.

 

In the space of 24 hours, we seem to have "found" 8 unbuilt Metro tanks... It's going to be great to see them all develop.

[longchap]

25 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

In the space of 24 hours, we seem to have "found" 8 unbuilt Metro tanks... It's going to be great to see them all develop.

 

Such is the power of the internet in the hands of good old model railway chaps!

 

[Mikkel]

What a good idea to have a joint build thread. I don't have a Metro kit at the moment but it's certainly tempting! I look forward to following and learning.  Meawhile here's a Finecast specimen at Farthing some years ago, not built by me I hasten to add. Since sold to generate much needed cash.

 

 

[longchap]

Welcome Mikkel and I hope you are able to replace your small Metro at an appropriate time. Squires now hold the reins of the SEF range of kits and I'll find out if and when this popular loco may be available again next weekend at the Eastleigh exhibition, where they are trading.

 

It was Phil @Harlequin who noticing that several of us were talking of the small Metro, sensibly suggested a new thread to catalogue our builds and within 24 hours, the popularity of the class has seen to be greater than imagined. Maybe one day an RTR version may be released, but I hope many more find joy in creating their own individual locos.

 

Bill

 

Edit: PS I remember seeing your Metro above some years ago and even saved a copy for future use. 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by longchap

[Harlequin]

19 hours ago, russell price said:

I shall be  following with interest too, i have an unbuilt finecast kit and the S E etched chassis kit and a mashima motor. I have built plenty of loco kits but nothing compensated so will see how you get on. I think the Metro is a prototype  that needs a compensated  chassis. 

 

Hi Russell,

 

Are you saying that you think the model Metro we are all talking about here particularly needs a compensated chassis?

 

If so, can you explain why, please? (Bearing in mind that all/most of us here are building for OO.)

 

Thanks,

[Harlequin]

Checking the Missenden Loco kit tool list, I find that I have everything on the "essential" list except broaches and most of the tools on the "nice to have" list but I note that they say that a Dremel drill is too fast. I can see why - even on it's lowest speed mine is obviously too rapid for drilling metal.

 

The "Workspace" is an interesting "Essential" item. When I first skimmed through the list I got in my head a picture of a small tray, about 9 inches square, that would give a back face to press against close to where you would be working.  This seemed like a really good idea to me but on reading the list properly I find that the Missenden dimensions are 24 by 18 inches. That's pretty much the size of my workbench! So I might yet make the smaller tray that I imagined.

 

Here are the tools I used to create the rivet heads in my chassis parts:

I made the small hammer in Metalwork class at school <ahuhhum> years ago and the "punch" is a brass panel pin with the point blunted slightly and soldered to a big copper staple so it's easier to hold.

 

The trick with raising the rivet heads in this primitive way was to get a consistent strike with the hammer - which I didn't entirely succeed to do.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Harlequin

[russell price]

I’m thinking it will be a bit front heavy, That said the only 240 I have built a few years ago was the GEM Cambrian 1196  which does need its spring on the leading wheels. 
I dug out the kit last night and noted the SEF chassis appears to be able to have slotted axle boxes without separate hornblocks.  I guess the axles are supported by the floating beams.

I also have a Comet chassis kit for a 14xx which could do to be built compensated. 

[longchap]

I printed the recommended tools and materials schedule from Missenden’s website to cross off what I already have, to leave a shopping list, then realised I have pretty much everything on the essential list, except the workspace board. I’ve never used one as such and was intending to take my big cutting mat and a trusty glass shelf, which I build pretty much everything on.

 

However, Missenden have learned a deal over many years of running modellers’ courses and a large 600 x 450mm work board seems good for making / moving /  storing a build, so why not? Why not make two even, together with a shelf rack to store them in, thus easily enabling two projects to be on the go in the same time frame and very easy and safe to move between workbench and storage rack? The design is also simple to make from bits in my timber store.

 

It seems I’m already developing my methods before even getting to the course, so well done Missenden and I’m looking forward to learning more.

[Gilbert]

9 hours ago, longchap said:

I printed the recommended tools and materials schedule from Missenden’s website to cross off what I already have, to leave a shopping list, then realised I have pretty much everything on the essential list, except the workspace board. I’ve never used one as such and was intending to take my big cutting mat and a trusty glass shelf, which I build pretty much everything on.

 

However, Missenden have learned a deal over many years of running modellers’ courses and a large 600 x 450mm work board seems good for making / moving /  storing a build, so why not? Why not make two even, together with a shelf rack to store them in, thus easily enabling two projects to be on the go in the same time frame and very easy and safe to move between workbench and storage rack? The design is also simple to make from bits in my timber store.

 

It seems I’m already developing my methods before even getting to the course, so well done Missenden and I’m looking forward to learning more.

I'm not closely involved with the kit course but remember we have 7mm modellers on a course at Missenden as well so while the table top work space would be fine for all scales - and almost essential in some of the rooms we use (they have "nice" tables) project storage/movement could be on something smaller in 4mm etc.

C

[Neal Ball]

I have been looking at motors and gearboxes again this afternoon.

 

Having sent an email to Andrew at Wizard models, apparently his gearboxes are still not in stock, so rather than wait further, I have started to look at the website for High Level kits: https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxes

 

I started by going to the smallest gearbox - after all it is a small loco....

 

 

The feint line on the right is the outline of the current x04 motor.

 

However, I think its sitting too low and looks a bit "insignificant".

 

 

The cut-outs above include adding a 1020FE motor:

 

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/product-page/1020fe-iron-core

 

This motor is 20mm long x 12mm high and 10mm diameter....

 

I then started to look at the Roadrunner gearbox and I reckon this will be a better fit:

 

 

 

The photo above shews the Roadrunner gearbox fitted to the 1020FE motor and as can be seen, its the same length as the X04.... but I will have additional space at the front to install the decoder. It would be nice to get a speaker in the chimney and maybe a stay alive in the bunker.

 

I can feel like a plan is coming together.

 

I have emailed High Level to ask about shipping to Spain, (Apparently the Royal Mail are still not shipping overseas), hopefully they can use DHL or similar.

 

Remaining items for this project will be a Frame Assembly jig, which I had been intending to get from Wizard models.... https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/tools/ls16/

 

Does anyone know if Squires do something similar?

 

[Captain Kernow]

I think your choice of the RoadRunner is very appropriate, Neal. The rear of the motor should still allow full backhead detail.

 

What ratio are you chosing?

 

[Neal Ball]

6 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I think your choice of the RoadRunner is very appropriate, Neal. The rear of the motor should still allow full backhead detail.

 

What ratio are you chosing?

 

 

Thanks very much for this - hopefully they can ship to Spain and I can get the order placed.

 

I thought 45:1 would be ok.  Reading the details on the High level site: https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/passenger I am thinking more about the 60:1 ratio.

[Steamport Southport]

Might be of interest to those modelling small GWR tank engines.

 

https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Four-Coupled-Tank-Locomotive-Classes-Built-by-the-Great-Western-Railway-Hardback/p/22550

 

This book is a comprehensive history of all twenty-six classes of four coupled tank engines commissioned by the Great Western Railway or built at their Wolverhampton and Swindon Works, from the Broad Gauge 2-4-0 and 4-4-0 tanks of the 1840s and 1850s to the well known Collett 0-4-2 branch line engines of classes 48XX (later renumbered 14XX) and 58XX of the 1930s. As well as the Broad Gauge engines, the strange looking ‘Covertibles’ of William Dean, a number of experimental ‘one-off’ designs, the numerous Wolverhampton 0-4-2Ts of the ‘517’ class and the Swindon built ‘2-4-0 ‘Metro Tanks’ are described with – where known – their allocation and operation. The book includes twenty weight diagrams and nearly 300 photographs, over 50 in colour. The four-coupled tank engines absorbed by the Great Western from other companies at or before 1923 will be featured in a separate volume to follow.

 

 

 

 

Noticed it the other day when looking for something else. 

 

 

Jason

[Captain Kernow]

6 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Reading the details on the High level site: https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/passenger I am thinking more about the 60:1 ratio.

Up to a point, it partially depends on the speed of the motor you are putting with the gearbox, but I'd probably go for a 60:1 in any case, especially if you want nice controllability when shunting etc.

 

[Neal Ball]

Thanks both:

 

11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Might be of interest to those modelling small GWR tank engines.

 

https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Four-Coupled-Tank-Locomotive-Classes-Built-by-the-Great-Western-Railway-Hardback/p/22550

 

This book is a comprehensive history of all twenty-six classes of four coupled tank engines commissioned by the Great Western Railway or built at their Wolverhampton and Swindon Works, from the Broad Gauge 2-4-0 and 4-4-0 tanks of the 1840s and 1850s to the well known Collett 0-4-2 branch line engines of classes 48XX (later renumbered 14XX) and 58XX of the 1930s. As well as the Broad Gauge engines, the strange looking ‘Covertibles’ of William Dean, a number of experimental ‘one-off’ designs, the numerous Wolverhampton 0-4-2Ts of the ‘517’ class and the Swindon built ‘2-4-0 ‘Metro Tanks’ are described with – where known – their allocation and operation. The book includes twenty weight diagrams and nearly 300 photographs, over 50 in colour. The four-coupled tank engines absorbed by the Great Western from other companies at or before 1923 will be featured in a separate volume to follow.

 

 

 

 

Noticed it the other day when looking for something else. 

 

 

Jason

 

Excellent thanks Jason.

 

I have found it on Amazon.de which would avoid import duties for those of us in the EU 

 

https://www.amazon.de/s?k=Four-Coupled+Tank+Locomotive+Classes+Built+by+the+Great+Western+Railway&ref=nav_bb_sb

 

4 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Up to a point, it partially depends on the speed of the motor you are putting with the gearbox, but I'd probably go for a 60:1 in any case, especially if you want nice controllability when shunting etc.

 

 

Thanks very much 60:1 it is then.

[Captain Kernow]

Just wondering, by the way, is this thread just for Metro tanks and 517s, or can similarly coupled locos join in?

 

[Neal Ball]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Just wondering, by the way, is this thread just for Metro tanks and 517s, or can similarly coupled locos join in?

 

 

What loco are you working on? 

[Andy Keane]

35 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I have been looking at motors and gearboxes again this afternoon.

 

Having sent an email to Andrew at Wizard models, apparently his gearboxes are still not in stock, so rather than wait further, I have started to look at the website for High Level kits: https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxes

 

I started by going to the smallest gearbox - after all it is a small loco....

 

 

The feint line on the right is the outline of the current x04 motor.

 

However, I think its sitting too low and looks a bit "insignificant".

 

 

The cut-outs above include adding a 1020FE motor:

 

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/product-page/1020fe-iron-core

 

This motor is 20mm long x 12mm high and 10mm diameter....

 

I then started to look at the Roadrunner gearbox and I reckon this will be a better fit:

 

 

 

The photo above shews the Roadrunner gearbox fitted to the 1020FE motor and as can be seen, its the same length as the X04.... but I will have additional space at the front to install the decoder. It would be nice to get a speaker in the chimney and maybe a stay alive in the bunker.

 

I can feel like a plan is coming together.

 

I have emailed High Level to ask about shipping to Spain, (Apparently the Royal Mail are still not shipping overseas), hopefully they can use DHL or similar.

 

Remaining items for this project will be a Frame Assembly jig, which I had been intending to get from Wizard models.... https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/tools/ls16/

 

Does anyone know if Squires do something similar?

 

I am opting for the Humpshunter which holds the motor well forwards and a bit higher and also gives lower gear ratios - I am going 68:1.

Agree speaker in chimney if possible and stayalive in bunker - but maybe split into three supercaps fitted where I can squeeze them in.

Andy

[Captain Kernow]

4 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

What loco are you working on? 

Nothing specific at the moment, but I have a 14XX to re-chassis, possibly two, in due course.

 

And then there are various cute little industrial locos in the pipeline.

 

A Metro and a 517 are really too early for my BR period, although I could justify one as a light railway loco.

 

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

I am opting for the Humpshunter which holds the motor well forwards and a bit higher and also gives lower gear ratios - I am going 68:1.

Agree speaker in chimney if possible and stayalive in bunker - but maybe split into three supercaps fitted where I can squeeze them in.

Andy

 

What speaker are you opting for Andy?

 

I can't get in through the smokebox door as that is already been fixed in place, unless I can prize it off without damaging anything.

 

Failing that the boiler will need to be opened out at the other end - don't know how I am going to do that at the moment....

 

 

[Neal Ball]

Just now, Captain Kernow said:

Nothing specific at the moment, but I have a 14XX to re-chassis, possibly two, in due course.

 

And then there are various cute little industrial locos in the pipeline.

 

A Metro and a 517 are really too early for my BR period, although I could justify one as a light railway loco.

 

 

Good luck, that all sounds intriguing.

 

I would say Metro (Large and Small); 517 and the later 14xx would all fit under these small loco category... maybe the industrial locos would be better in a similar but separate thread.