Hornby LWB van - can the ugly duckling be transformed into a swan?

[SteveyDee68]

I think we all know to which van I refer - the bogus body shell designed to fit the tanker underframe, which has been around since the year dot and sold with various liveries from McVities Biscuits to The Beatles (and with prices ranging from bargain basement to “are you seriously asking that for a completely fake wagon?!!”)

 

 

Two of the oldest (?) versions

 

 

Rebranded…

 

 

Still around …

 

 

Further versions…

 

 

Whimsical…

 

 

Milestone-marking

 

 

And “collectible” (at daft prices)

 

I’ve tried searching RMWeb but haven’t found anything other than referring to these wagons as being heaps of junk.

 

But, I wonder, has anybody actually done anything to “improve” them to make them slightly more believable? For instance, shortening the chassis?

 

Asking because these can be picked up so cheaply and if a half believable wagon can be achieved with little outlay then surely some use can be made of them before resorting to sending them to landfill?

 

Steve S

 

 

[SteveyDee68]

Gratuitous end shot to show how the ends are treated …

 

[woodenhead]

Perhaps if you melt them you could use the liquid plastic to pour into a mould to make a tray to hold your modelling bits n bobs 

[woodenhead]

To me be biggest problem is that they look like a weird shock wagon as the body is shorter than the chassis.

 

I guess if you paint them bauxite you could have some strange BR MOD LWB shock van for ammunition transit.

[phil_sutters]

If you are planning to get rid of the dreaded couplings, why not chop the chassis at both ends and move the buffer beams inwards. Think about ways to modify the body ends to a CCT type. Then you have something vaguely like this 

 

[Steamport Southport]

To be honest I've only got two and by chance they are the first two, ISTR one was in a train set and the other was a bargain from somewhere like Beatties or Hattons when I was about six.

 

I just keep them for the nostalgia aspect and occasionally give them a run behind my GWR 101 with some of the vans from the time such as Weetabix and KitKat.

 

I wouldn't waste effort on them apart from if you want a bit of practice. And don't mess with one that is collectable, sell it to a collector and buy something else!

 

 

Jason

[petethemole]

The van body looks about the right length for one of the L&YR van diagrams formerly produced by MAJ kits, so could be modified to resemble one by adding external framing, strapping and door hinges. Without the underframe you would get a reasonably convincing  grounded van.

[41516]

The idea intrigued me enough to go find out my single example, a Kelloggs one the previous owner appears to have dropped a hot soldering iron on....several times.

 

They're very narrow.  Width as compared to that of a spare Parkside LMS/BR fruit van end. A good couple of mm thinner, again throwing off proportions. HO sized perhaps?  This would probably be the biggest problem to making it look anything like a real world van, requiring cutting one length ways and adding a width plug, or heavily reskin the sides.

 

The small door width also seems a bit odd with the size of the van.  Similar to LNER fish vans in comparison, but the longer overall length make it look out of proportion. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, petethemole said:

L&YR van diagrams formerly produced by MAJ kits

 

A little bit longer and doors narrower.

 

 

Again, width is significantly different!

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by 41516

[cypherman]

Hi all,

If this was me. I would as some one has mentioned strip the bodies off the chassis and use them around the layout as grounded vans. Goods yard or farmers field. That's all they are really worth IMHO. Perhaps then you might then be able to butcher the chassis in to something else.

[Fat Controller]

38 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

If this was me. I would as some one has mentioned strip the bodies off the chassis and use them around the layout as grounded vans. Goods yard or farmers field. That's all they are really worth IMHO. Perhaps then you might then be able to butcher the chassis in to something else.

The under-frame would do to carry an open -topped  box wagon of the type used variously by CAIB, Railtrack from the late 1980s onwards. Many hundreds of these were built on underframes from redundant 15' wb tank wagons.

[SteveyDee68]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

The idea intrigued me enough to go find out my single example, a Kelloggs one the previous owner appears to have dropped a hot soldering iron on....several times.

 

They're very narrow.  Width as compared to that of a spare Parkside LMS/BR fruit van end. A good couple of mm thinner, again throwing off proportions. HO sized perhaps?  This would probably be the biggest problem to making it look anything like a real world van, requiring cutting one length ways and adding a width plug, or heavily reskin the sides.

 

The small door width also seems a bit odd with the size of the van.  Similar to LNER fish vans in comparison, but the longer overall length make it look out of proportion. 

 

 

 

A little bit longer and doors narrower.

 

 

Again, width is significantly different!

 

Thank you for demonstrating how far out the dimensions are against “proper” rolling stock.

 

I always thought the horizontal mouldings on the sides were metal “corrugations” so making them a little more modern than a wooden bodied van. Goes to show what I (don’t) know! 🤣

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I wouldn't waste effort on them apart from if you want a bit of practice. And don't mess with one that is collectable, sell it to a collector and buy something else!

I don’t actually have any of these vans, but I was thinking along the lines of @Steamport Southport’s suggestion of using them as a bit of practice for bashing rolling stock about, before having a go with coaches etc. It is still possible to pick them up very cheaply, and I wouldn’t use a collector’s piece either.

 

However, I have a friend lives in Barnsley so am hopefully going to get hold of a RECONAFORK version!

 

What wheelbase length chassis would anyone suggest as looking anything like okay, should I go ahead and widen the body as suggested above?
 

I’m now pondering whether the discarded underframe might (roughly) go underneath an open ferry wagon (or an approximation thereof - let’s face it, the moment I finish someone like Rapido will bring out a stunningly accurate version to go with their ferry vans), once the plumbing has been carved off, of course?

 

I know that I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, but it is all valuable practical modelling practice for me. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to answer what many might perceive as a pointless question to ask!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

[41516]

I'm sorry Sir, an older boy told me to do it.....

 

 

Thoughts so far. I think you really need two bodies to graft together to get up to full chassis length and then use spare side parts to graft in as sliding doors to make a mini-VDA type body.

Currently thinking MOD 24t PALVAN for full side replacement keeping the chassis (would need body lengthening overall), or cutting down body futher....

 

5 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

I always thought the horizontal mouldings on the sides were metal “corrugations” so making them a little more modern than a wooden bodied van. Goes to show what I (don’t) know! 🤣

 

Just the toolmaker's way of representing planking on the MAJ kits - think older kits with everything as raised detail.  I'm sure the idea on the Hornby body is supposed to be metal sheeting

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by 41516

[SteveyDee68]

Well, @41516, as they (sort of) say on “Mastermind”, ‘You’ve started so now you’ll have to finish’!!

 

Feel free to post on this thread where this madcap project might take you!

 

I was imagining cutting down the centre of the van lengthways and inserting a filler piece in order to achieve a better width. However, your method makes more sense, allowing you to form your own roof profile with new ends.

 

Can’t wait to see what wheelbase underframe you put under this!

 

Steve S

Edited May 29, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Stupid corrective text …

[SteveyDee68]

This really should go in the eBay Madness thread…

 

Hornby Rake of McVities Vans

 

£51.70 + £4.05 p&p?!! 🤣

 

Yeah, I’ll pick some up a lot cheaper than that, even if seven off means approx £8 a pop!!

 

Steve S

 

 

[Paleopotato09]

I thought about turning them into fish or perishable vans. Maybe gluing two of them together into a bogie van and seeing if that would improve the over all aesthetics. Just might little ideas on what to do with them  

[41516]

Final thoughts for today. Adding 1.5mm to each side really helps, but what can't be helped is the roof arc. Very sharp and more early 20th century in appearance.

 

Not sure what I'm going to do next with this. As I said before, I'd prefer to try and merge 2 bodies to give enough sides to try and make a body that fits the full length chassis rather that cut that down, but unless I find another for about a quid, I'm not buying!  Other options would be to recess the doors, LNER fish van style, or with two bodies go for something Mink C like with two sets of cupboard doors per side. Iron Mink C?  Cut down the whole thing down for a 10ft chassis?

 

Can you make anything accurate/prototypical out of the body? Probably not.

Can you make something from the body? Yes. Fun/practice/imagination - why not?

 

 

Missing sections from where the previous owner had melted bits out of the roof.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by 41516

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Personally, I'd make two new ends and a roof and mate them with scratchbuilt sides and then fit them on decent chassis.

 

Mike.

[NZRedBaron]

So..... you're saying you'd just bin the whole wagon then?

[Titan]

I would shorten the chassis to match the body, as well as getting rid of all the extraneous pipework, and then find a class 33/2 to haul them with...

[SteveyDee68]

13 hours ago, 41516 said:

Can you make anything accurate/prototypical out of the body? Probably not.

Can you make something from the body? Yes. Fun/practice/imagination - why not?

Exactly my own thinking! 
 

My thoughts are also leaning towards a totally freelance ferry wagon for use on a train ferry - the recessed door (like a fish van) makes me think of a refrigerated van, and I like the idea of putting two together into a longer bogie vehicle, too.

 

Time to start rummaging in the £1 boxes under the stalls at swapmeets and exhibitions, I think!

 

I’d invite anyone who does attempt to improve these models to post here - who knows, this may end up the equivalent of the pugbash thread for these cr*ppy Hornby efforts!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

[SteveyDee68]

24 minutes ago, Titan said:

I would shorten the chassis to match the body, as well as getting rid of all the extraneous pipework, and then find a class 33/2 to haul them with...

Well, that would sort the narrow width issue! 😁 Good thinking!

 

Another “variant” I might try, shortening the chassis and removing all the gubbage not needed below the solebar. However, I’d still widen the body!

 

Steve S

Edited May 30, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Expanded

[Flying Pig]

17 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

I always thought the horizontal mouldings on the sides were metal “corrugations” so making them a little more modern than a wooden bodied van. Goes to show what I (don’t) know! 🤣

 

I think you were right all along.  They seem to be based on post-steam air-braked vans with extreme shrinkage applied, rather than any kind of traditional wooden vehicle. 

[Flying Pig]

Could you use bits from the Airfix/Dapol 35t tanker to improve the underframe?

[SteveyDee68]

13 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

 

Missing sections from where the previous owner had melted bits out of the roof.

When I get some donors, I am going to try this but also cut one down the middle and insert a 3mm wide strip… this would give a flat in the centre of the roof, so I may then need to re-profile the end and replace the missing detail along the roof edge at the top.

Interesting times …

 

[Flying Pig]

Perhaps they were built for military traffic in the 1970s in lieu of Vanwide VEA conversions?