Hornby LWB van - can the ugly duckling be transformed into a swan?

[SteveyDee68]

Remember the Hornby “Conflat A” with a Freightliner box on it?

 

 

Well, I acquired a fair few of these having misunderstood a comment in another thread, thinking that the chassis was suitable to model a Conflat B wagon on (in order to have two Birds Eye containers on a wagon, like the Great Yarmouth trains … but I digress).

 

Not having yet acquired a UDV* model to chop about, I’m wondering how this chassis might look under the van body (if kept to it’s original length), as to the best of my knowledge this is a slightly longer wheelbase than a standard van?

 

Thoughts?

 

Steve S
 

* Ugly Duckling Van

[melmerby]

Still going strong (?)

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/beatles-please-please-me-beatles-60th-anniversary-wagon-r60184

 

Set of 8 to collect🙂

https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/collections/the-beatles?encoded=pY3BCoJAEIZfZU_eCoXKCpaggk5RUDeRZVonXdp2ZRwh3z4xMrvWbf5v_m9mZcHlR-BCFp7cpRnVt-BqLCNVyd04VZLRmMrwA-HxhtPJeDLtF0fC0YEypFT2bE3gskE-abCtGC3jmehmEYZiB3WOfaVLA2Xv2Q9PbjcbcWLguhrAe_sG2l6jXkRdmjQpyWe1ZqW9tajZeKeMSeW5QLFGYIvVD_5_B77lEnJUJpNRvIiDyhO3lpx3WEZP

Edited May 31, 2023 by melmerby

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

The same chassis went under the 21T steel mineral - Hornby's slightly burly rendering of a GW N32 "Felix Pole" steel mineral hired out to the S Wales coal trade, and various private builders 1930s close equivalents for large users. A Parkside 12' wb chassis will sort that one out

That wagon used the chassis originally put under the R112 Cattle wagon and R123 Horsebox.

[SteveyDee68]

Having escaped from the DIY this afternoon, I popped down to The Locoshed to see about acquiring a van or two to play with…

 

 

Here is a Sheaf Materials Handling Ltd van (a fictional livery courtesy of Hornby I learnt from Morgan!) plus a spare body to also mess about with!

 

To the Batcave!! 🦸‍♂️

 

Also happened to trade in a rake of improved Pullman coaches that I picked up a while ago against … ahem … yet another Bachmann Class 04 loco! (Will I ever learn?!)

 

HOURS OF ANTICIPATED FUN!!

[Morgenergy]

11 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Here is a Sheaf Materials Handling Ltd van (a fictional livery courtesy of Hornby I learnt from Morgan!) plus a spare body to also mess about with!

Ayup Steve

 

I think it’s fictitious anyway; doing some admittedly limited research when I first got mine about 10 years ago as a teenager, the only results were of the Skaledale related products! 
 

If it does end up being a real company it’d be an interesting twist and an odd choice by Hornby; it’s not exactly Railfreight is it? Been a part of the Railroad range for ages now!

 

Happy modelling,

Morgan

[41516]

Progress....

 

Chassis now cut down to 16'6" over headstocks and 9ft WB, the w-irons reshaped (except one below to try and prove it's the same one!), roof widened a touch.

 

If I was using 'all parts of the buffalo', I'd recycle the sides, but I'm keeping those for another day.

 

 

 

[cessna152towser]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03735884

1 hour ago, Morgenergy said:

1 hour ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Here is a Sheaf Materials Handling Ltd van (a fictional livery courtesy of Hornby I learnt from Morgan!) plus a spare body to also mess about with!

Ayup Steve

 

I think it’s fictitious anyway; doing some admittedly limited research when I first got mine about 10 years ago as a teenager, the only results were of the Skaledale related products! 
 

If it does end up being a real company it’d be an interesting twist and an odd choice by Hornby; it’s not exactly Railfreight is it? Been a part of the Railroad range for ages now!

 

[Steamport Southport]

I'll leave this here. Notice the names....

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03735884/officers

[SteveyDee68]

3 hours ago, cessna152towser said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03735884

 

And now, thanks to @cessna152towser confirming that it was/is a real company, a quick internet search now I am home and I found both their Linkedin and Facebook business pages (although their website crashed with a “fatal error”!).

 

The logo on the left of Hornby’s van matches the company logo -

 

 

As purloined from their Linkedin account!

 

However, I’ve not been able to find any reference to the ram’s head image on the right of the van, other than that the company address is RAM Works, 35-37 Trent Street in Sheffield! There‘s no way now of knowing if the ram’s head was an older and now defunct logo, other than by contacting the company directly - and I’m sure they have better things to do than answer a frivolous enquiry about a model wagon! (Having said that, they were quite proud of the fact that their company was on a model train!)
 

So, @Morgenergy, it seems Hornby’s livery was prototypical (or maybe ‘semi-real’) after all!

 

EVERY DAY IS A SCHOOL DAY!

 

PS

I only checked out the company name, but @Steamport Southportmay have discovered the reason why the company was selected as a van livery by Hornby! (Nepo-cough-tism?! 🫢)

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Referencing a second post that only appeared as I was writing!!

[Steamport Southport]

And don't forget that Sheaf comes from the river that Sheffield gets it's name from.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Sheaf

 

Must admit I didn't know that until recently! I think it was reading one of those "You are here" maps.

 

 

Jason

[SteveyDee68]

Curiouser and curiouser…

 

Upon examining the two bodies in my possession, it seems there are variations in the body after all…

 

 

The Sheaf Materials wagon has internal bracing, the Kellogg’s does not!

 

Hmmmm 🤔

As others pointed out earlier, the chassis does have the buffers at the right height matching it against a Bachmann box van.

 

 

Placing the unaltered body on the Hornby “Conflat A” underframe shows the body would need shortening by 6.5mm overall to fit lengthways … or 3mm off each end (allowing for wastage from cutting the plastic).

 

I think this will be the basis of my first attempt at a cut and shut, to produce a slightly shorter (and wider) van on a longer wheelbase underframe than a “standard” van.

 

HOURS OF FUN!!

Edited June 1, 2023 by SteveyDee68

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

And don't forget that Sheaf comes from the river that Sheffield gets it's name from.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Sheaf

 

Must admit I didn't know that until recently! I think it was reading one of those "You are here" maps.

 

 

Jason

 

Sheffield gets it's name from the somewhat earlier Norman name of Escafeld, and has developed through pronunciation anomalies to become Sheffield.

When mapping and an increase in literacy came along years later the River Sheaf took it's name from the village of Sheffield and it's rural surroundings.

 

Mike.

[Halvarras]

12 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

 

 

 

Placing the unaltered body on the Hornby “Conflat A” underframe shows the body would need shortening by 6.5mm overall to fit lengthways … or 3mm off each end (allowing for wastage from cutting the plastic).

 

I think this will be the basis of my first attempt at a cut and shut, to produce a slightly shorter (and wider) van on a longer wheelbase underframe than a “standard” van.

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

That shows promise..........not entirely sure what for yet but I'll keep watching! 😀

[41516]

Total rubbish these vans, can't do anything with them, fit only for the bin.....

 

 

For what started as athough experiment, this has gone on quite quickly.  Side/corner strapping, brakes and roof strips next, then some primer, then some finals odds and end.   Need a paint scheme too...

 

Thoughts so far:

 

1. As soon as I knew I was going in a gunpowder van direction, I should have selected a prototype and not just bodged on with a freelance van. Next time...

2. Reusing the doors made life much harder

3. I should have done something with the headstocks to stop me keep knocking off the end stantions.

4. Reusing the Hornby chassis is also making more work for little gain, except for saying it can be done.

 

Edit: @SteveyDee68 Do either of your vans have a bit of a wavey roof, dropping in the middle, or is it likely to just be damage from the PO on mine?

Edited June 3, 2023 by 41516

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, 41516 said:

Edit: @SteveyDee68 Do either of your vans have a bit of a wavey roof, dropping in the middle, or is it likely to just be damage from the PO on mine?

Both my examples are actually okay in terms of moulding etc so I suspect the damage you have was done by the previous owner (as you suggest).

 

What I thought was interesting was the internal strengthening on the Sheaf Materials Handling van, none of which are on the Kellogg’s van - I suspect the latter is an older version and at some point Hornby added internal strengthening to avoid material bowing in etc…

 

Very much impressed with what you have done with your UDV - my first bit of surgery is going to be shortening the length and widening overall in order to fit the Hornby “Conflat A” (🙄) chassis shown earlier! I’ll be taking a razor saw to my first example tomorrow (after a trip to the tip!)
 

HOURS OF FUN!

[41516]

 

Stantions to be shaped once they dry off and a few of the rougher bits to sort and it'll be as far as I take it before painting. No way am I going to add a lot of bolt detail to the sides, end, roof..... not for this.

[Morgenergy]

After all this discussion and education on the company side of things, I think I’ll go dig my Sheaf offering from out of the shed and do something with it! 

 

After a change of couplings, some underframe fettling and a spot of general filth, it surely wouldn’t look too out of place in a Speedlink rake..? 

[41516]

~Fin~

 

 

I might have gone a bit far beyond 'thought experiment'...

 

As a semi-freelance van, the paint scheme came from some of the ROF vans at Glascoed photographed by Paul Bartlett: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/rofgunpowder/h3E56D6E#hc1af5a0

 

How wrong I was back on Page 2.

 

On 29/05/2023 at 20:38, 41516 said:

Can you make anything accurate/prototypical out of the body? Probably not.

 

Brake levers spares from Cambrian.  Halfords rattlecan black with various shades of grey washed and dry-brushed over. You can barely tell I didn't bother with the bolts at more than about a foot, which is good!

 

This has turned out rather nicely and was a bit of relief from 'serious' prototype modelling and good practice for weathering things that are black and clean-ish.

 

 

If I hadn't shown the 'in progress' pictures, would anyone believe it's a Kellogg's van?

Edited June 6, 2023 by 41516

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

~Fin~

 

 

I might have gone a bit far beyond 'thought experiment'...

 

As a semi-freelance van, the paint scheme came from some of the ROF vans at Glascoed photographed by Paul Bartlett: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/rofgunpowder/h3E56D6E#hc1af5a0

 

How wrong I was back on Page 2.

 

 

Brake levers spares from Cambrian.  Halfords rattlecan black with various shades of grey washed and dry-brushed over. You can barely tell I didn't bother with the bolts at more than about a foot, which is good!

 

This has turned out rather nicely and was a bit of relief from 'serious' prototype modelling and good practice for weathering things that are black and clean-ish.

 

 

If I hadn't shown the 'in progress' pictures, would anyone believe it's a Kellogg's van?

 

Triggers broom?

 

Mike.

[SteveyDee68]

On 03/06/2023 at 20:00, 41516 said:

2. Reusing the doors made life much harder

But if you hadn’t, then proportionally even less of the UDV would be in the final model…

 

 

Does the above look bodged? No, sir, that is inspirational and has won the award of Best Upgrade of a UDV

 

I must profess to not possessing the legendary “box of bits” that more long-standing/active/accomplished modellers on RMWeb have - acquiring “spare” axle guards or brake riggings will require stumbling upon a Harry Potter-like “Room of Requirement”, buying in an awful lot of “bits”* or attempting to fabricate from scratch! 

 

So, who will share their upgrade next? Waiting with baited breath…

 

Of course, @41516 has set the bar very high for anyone to follow, but my own efforts will be shown here in due course (no matter how truly botched they are!), and my devotion to the cause has a set of four (!) repainted wagons winging their way to me from eBay, even as we speak!

 

 

Here they are in all their sh*t-hued glory!

 

First job upon receipt is to strip whatever sh*t-brown paint has been sloshed over the bodywork!

 

Can’t wait to get stuck in and have myself

 

HOURS OF HARMLESS** FUN!

 

 

* Hoping to stumble upon such a “joblot” find on eBay is hardly likely these days, as every man and dog attempts to sell boxes of bits for crazy prices! (See the eBay Madness thread for examples!)

 

** Harmless to anyone other than rivet-counters, that is! 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Spilling Miss Take

[SteveyDee68]

7 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Triggers broom?

 

Mike.

Maybe, but I think it’s still a bl@@dy good broom! 😉

 

Steve S

[41516]

21 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Triggers broom?

 

The only bits I didn't use were the sides (but could have done -  saving for next time) and what was snipped off the chassis!   Can't see what more I could have saved. Chassis, buffers, all Hornby still.  Only 'new material' was the sides, springs, axleboxes brakes/brake levers and then misc strip for details.

 

14 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Best Upgrade of a UDV

 

Merely the best....so far.

Edited June 6, 2023 by 41516

[SteveyDee68]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

saving for next time

Just realised you left a little teaser in there!

 

😁

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Just realised you left a little teaser in there!

 

😁

 

 

My money is on a bogie van!

 

Mike.

[41516]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

My money is on a bogie van!

 

Mike.

 

GWR Mink F would be worth looking at. Slightly wishful at the moment as that was the one body I have and I'm not buying another unless I find a very cheap one.