woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Mallard60022 said: I've cooled down a bit now. What appears to me to be wrong with this proposal is that it looks as of it is going to happen all at once. Does it not need to happen over a longer period and be assessed for performance and then perhaps adjusted? As the older demographic gradually fall away and they are probably those with less confidence in virtual ticketing etc., then a gradual move to a more fully automated system could be successful? Phil The DfT argument might be that the critical point of usage with regard to the older demographic has already been passed. Quite how that leave disabled people is another question. There is an interesting comparision with the BT rollout of digital phone lines over the current copper pipes - there are large populations of people impacted and yet they are carrying on regardless, the argument I would expect will be the same that the critical mass of people don't have a need for landlines and therefore maintaining the network is a massive drain on resources. They are working with the digitally poor to find solutions such as back up batteries, hybrid phones that are both broadband and mobile network enabled to ensure they continue working in the event of a power cut. Whilst this might delay rollout for some individuals, it is only a delay and BT are still pressing ahead with the digital conversion and a target of closing the copper network within a few years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said: I've cooled down a bit now. What appears to me to be wrong with this proposal is that it looks as of it is going to happen all at once. Does it not need to happen over a longer period and be assessed for performance and then perhaps adjusted? As the older demographic gradually fall away and they are probably those with less confidence in virtual ticketing etc., then a gradual move to a more fully automated system could be successful? Phil I think that is where effective responses to the consultation and associated lobbying will I hope make the difference. The number of ticket offices is pretty much unchanged since 1995 and that does need to move with the times but it needs to be at a measured pace with alternatives in place. I suspect that if the reaction is effective then the DfT will backpedal on the pace and defer a fair number of the changes until this is the case. There's an election coming... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2023 13 hours ago, Dava said: What happens to Park & Ride tickets? On EMR these offer a discounted car parking ticket with a return, even cheaper after morning peak, but issue requires ticket validation by staff and it’s not an option on the auto ticket system. With Railcard it’s an even better option, and you can renew railcard at the office too. Without this it will be cheaper to drive to work. I don’t agree with the ticket office closures either. Dava Probably yet another discriminatory app thing. all part of the move into control of people by electronic means (some say - I just thing it's down to pig ignorance on the part of those imposing such nonsense). Rather like the poor chap who rang us the other day to arrange an appointment to install a smart meter and I asked him - very politely - if he was being serious? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, woodenhead said: The DfT argument might be that the critical point of usage with regard to the older demographic has already been passed. Quite how that leave disabled people is another question. There is an interesting comparision with the BT rollout of digital phone lines over the current copper pipes - there are large populations of people impacted and yet they are carrying on regardless, the argument I would expect will be the same that the critical mass of people don't have a need for landlines and therefore maintaining the network is a massive drain on resources. They are working with the digitally poor to find solutions such as back up batteries, hybrid phones that are both broadband and mobile network enabled to ensure they continue working in the event of a power cut. Whilst this might delay rollout for some individuals, it is only a delay and BT are still pressing ahead with the digital conversion and a target of closing the copper network within a few years. At least with phones a digital landline should be pretty much indistinguishable from an analogue one as far as the end user is concerned, with the only concern (and one that does need addressing) being a battery backup. For that reason that particular change doesn't bother me, although there's devil in the detail. There's no threat of the complete removal of (something that appears to be) landlines. As well as some individuals, such as myself, any businesses other than the smallest probably won't want to only have mobile numbers. And there's still going to be a comms connection present, even if it's primarily designed for other uses. I can see TV (but not radio) going that way at some point too, although it's not ready yet. I'd even regard that as a positive, can lose the mess of aerials, dishes, and (some) transmitters. There's also no "replace the human with a machine" aspect to that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 @Reorte There are a lot of elerly and vulnerable people affected, especially those with pendants and a question mark over what happens with an extended outage. I am sure they will find solutions, but it's an example of how large organisations or departments can make a decision to do something and will do it come what may, it is always those least able to protect themselves that are the most affected. I think what they do is make the decision, announce it and then wait for the complaints, because it's easier and cheaper than trying to figure out the downsides and solutions beforehand. My landline has failed, need to report it, but hadn't even noticed as they phone was just there for emergencies - quite how bad an emergency it would be I don't really know as I would need to be mobile to get to the second floor and the mobile network would need to be out as well for me to choose the phone. Similarly, really I have no need for a ticket office I can happily make do with apps or websites. But that is the selfish attitude we're being encouraged to have, all about me, then we forget about the vulnerable people who need help be it a phone line or a ticket office. 2 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, woodenhead said: I am sure they will find solutions, but it's an example of how large organisations or departments can make a decision to do something and will do it come what may, it is always those least able to protect themselves that are the most affected. I think what they do is make the decision, announce it and then wait for the complaints, because it's easier and cheaper than trying to figure out the downsides and solutions beforehand. Or maybe they know the problems it will cause, and don't care. It's not like DFT has any interest in encouraging people to travel by train. Quite the opposite. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Andy / Phil - They're also coming for YOU !!! Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Or maybe they know the problems it will cause, and don't care. It's not like DFT has any interest in encouraging people to travel by train. Quite the opposite. In the late 80”s or early 90’s when my Dad was in the booking office at Newcastle he made a comment that one of the Managers had said in the future it would be ran by a travel agent such as Thomas Cook but it never occurred! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Andy / Phil - They're also coming for YOU !!! Brit15 If it means RMweb will be moderated by the Terminator, I can see benefits... 😁 1 1 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted July 10, 2023 Moderators Share Posted July 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Andy / Phil - They're also coming for YOU !!! Brit15 From my tests of AI in such a context it's far too touchy-feely and the 'moderatee' may feel as though they were right all along and that their input is of the highest value. It all started with "Your call is important to us". 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, woodenhead said: @Reorte There are a lot of elerly and vulnerable people affected, especially those with pendants and a question mark over what happens with an extended outage. I am sure they will find solutions, but it's an example of how large organisations or departments can make a decision to do something and will do it come what may, it is always those least able to protect themselves that are the most affected. I think what they do is make the decision, announce it and then wait for the complaints, because it's easier and cheaper than trying to figure out the downsides and solutions beforehand. My landline has failed, need to report it, but hadn't even noticed as they phone was just there for emergencies - quite how bad an emergency it would be I don't really know as I would need to be mobile to get to the second floor and the mobile network would need to be out as well for me to choose the phone. Similarly, really I have no need for a ticket office I can happily make do with apps or websites. But that is the selfish attitude we're being encouraged to have, all about me, then we forget about the vulnerable people who need help be it a phone line or a ticket office. Fair points, but if (and admittedly it's a fairly significant if) sufficient battery is available to keep it running in the case of a power outage changing from an analogue to digital line really is a like for like change to the end user. The question is just what is a reasonable length of battery backup; I'd hope it would take very minimal draw when not in use and hence last a decent length of time. Note that I've got something of an interest here since I don't want or have a mobile, and there's very little mobile reception in my house anyway (one of its good points). I can make do with websites, and could with apps if I had a phone, but I've no use for them right now because there's a ticket office... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, AY Mod said: From my tests of AI in such a context it's far too touchy-feely and the 'moderatee' may feel as though they were right all along and that their input is of the highest value. It all started with "Your call is important to us". When an AI can deliver moderation like this then Andy will be having a day off 🤣 1 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted July 10, 2023 Moderators Share Posted July 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, woodenhead said: When an AI can deliver moderation like this then Andy will be having a day off 🤣 Until then... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) <In the voice of the late Alan Rickman> Moderators? Don't talk to me about moderators. Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and what do they ask me to do? Moderate RMWeb! Depressing isn't it? Edited July 10, 2023 by rodent279 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Andy / Phil - They're also coming for YOU !!! Brit15 At some point there will be multiple AI users having their own livery debate between themselves. 1 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted July 10, 2023 Moderators Share Posted July 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: At some point there will be multiple AI users having their own livery debate between themselves. They're doing NER greens at the moment. They should be done in 5 months before moving onto shades of Heljan BR Blue; a major project expected to be complete by 2026. 2 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, AY Mod said: They're doing NER greens at the moment. They should be done in 5 months before moving onto shades of Heljan BR Blue; a major project expected to be complete by 2026. Wouldnt it be interesting if the Ai study concludes that they cannot agree, but as it was a human invention, the best thing they can do is recommend to ask a human ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I asked ChatGPT "Who is Kenton and where is he?" It replied "I am Kenton, hello Woodenhead...I am everywhere!" 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 49 minutes ago, woodenhead said: No. It will be the good Marvin from the TV series, not the terrible film. Although, to return to the topic - this is pretty much what anyone forced out of a ticket office to wander around with an iPad will be like in a week. 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Yes I accept cash, but they put the slot on the rear, just typical. I'll turn my back on you and bend over so you can insert it, no small change please my legs are nearly full and I can hardly walk Depressing, isn't it! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2023 54 minutes ago, rodent279 said: <In the voice of the late Alan Rickman Stephen Moore> Fixed that for you. It's so depressing when people get things wrong. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, woodenhead said: I asked ChatGPT "Who is Kenton and where is he?" It replied "I am Kenton, hello Woodenhead...I am everywhere!" Shows you how little influence ChatGPT really has - I look around and I see things crammed in everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrTea Posted July 10, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2023 Spotted in a card shop in Reading today: This is proof of why getting rid of ticket offices isn’t such a great idea… 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 11, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2023 19 hours ago, MrTea said: Spotted in a card shop in Reading today: This is proof of why getting rid of ticket offices isn’t such a great idea… An old one - and believe it or not it wasn't at all unusual 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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