WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

[johnofwessex]

What about a complete rewire & use modern batteries rather than lead-acid?

[Morello Cherry]

Just out of interest, are WCR coaches fitted with CET?

[phil-b259]

12 minutes ago, Morello Cherry said:

Just out of interest, are WCR coaches fitted with CET?

Not yet….

[DavidBird]

Scotrail have "stepped into the breach", almost, with an out-and-back train leaving Ft William at 12:48, arriving Mallaig 14:15, returing at 14:37, back in FTW at 16:03.

Today (Saturday) it was to be operated by the "overnight" train - the train that berths in Mallaig overnight - with the 3 car 156/153 combination.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:M45489/2023-08-05/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:M45490/2023-08-05/detailed#allox_id=0

Really confused me when I heard it leave (late) at 3 o'clock, I thought I'd lost an hour...

[Nick C]

Just to put the "Why don't they run the Jacobite at 25" argument to bed once and for all, here's a snippet from the latest ORR guidance:

 

Quote

NB: when considering speed, it is the line speed that is the determining factor for ROGS 
and not the speed the train travels at. For example, if you wanted to operate a heritage 
train onto the mainline network for a short distance at no more than 25mph (40km/h), but 
the line speed is 85mph (137km/h), you would still require safety certificate for that activity.

 

[newbryford]

On 04/08/2023 at 22:05, Morello Cherry said:

Just out of interest, are WCR coaches fitted with CET?

 

On 04/08/2023 at 22:18, phil-b259 said:

Not yet….

 

Some of them are now fitted with CET.  (Saw a few in a rake on the S&C about a month back)

 

IIRC, CET fitting is being funded via a grant or external source and not from Mr Smith's pocket.

 

 

[MyRule1]

On 04/08/2023 at 22:05, Morello Cherry said:

Just out of interest, are WCR coaches fitted with CET?

As has been already said some are. I travelled on a steam trip with WCR stock back in march this year and that set had them. No more don't use the toilet in the station moments.

[5944]

 

https://westcoastrailways.co.uk/careers?fbclid=IwAR0f7_pb1-OnSWf0UvarxiV4Qm-rpVJ6qz28d3mdv9lvmMf1hlccOthTPwk

[5944]

 

Tut tut! 😂

[DavidBird]

Post deleted, sorry. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by DavidBird

[eldomtom2]

And now the Jacobite returns: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/fort-william-orr-west-coast-railways-glenfinnan-viaduct-b1099436.html

Quote

The ORR said in a statement: “Following an inspection of West Coast Railway Company Limited’s (WCRCL) proposed safety arrangements for the Jacobite service on August 8, ORR has granted it a new exemption certificate which will allow the Jacobite to recommence operation.

“This exemption certificate is required for all train operators who want to use hinged door carriages without central door locking fitted.

“WCRCL’s exemption certificate is granted for a timebound period from August 8 to November 30 to enable it to honour its bookings and reflects the interests of its employees whilst its claim for judicial review is determined.”

 

[Bernard Lamb]

Looks like it is OK to continue under the exemption conditions until November.

Benard

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Looks like it is OK to continue under the exemption conditions until November.

Benard

Subject to enough stewards being employed… 

 

Of course had WCR done this in the first place….

[eldomtom2]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Subject to enough stewards being employed…

That is not a requirement that is in the ORR's statement.

[mow]

BBC coverage. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66441796

 

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[pete_mcfarlane]

2 hours ago, mow said:

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BBC coverage. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66441796

 

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I like the accompanying photo, which shows somebody hanging out of the window.

 

Sounds like they are still going for a judicial review. My impression is that many people think these are a way to overturn decisions they don't like, rather than a way to get the decision checked to make sure that due process was followed. 

[DCB]

The only way to keep the ORR really happy is a replacement bus service.    The safest trains are the ones which have been withdrawn and the safest railways those which have been closed.

[woodenhead]

14 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I like the accompanying photo, which shows somebody hanging out of the window.

 

And facing away from the direction of travel taking a photo!

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

That is not a requirement that is in the ORR's statement.

No - but it is in the original Exemption Certificate.  So the question is has the Exemption Certificate been altered or is resumption conditional upon that Certificate being properly complied with?  From at least one of the press reports it reads as if there are still conditions attached to the exemption.

[Graham_Muz]

My understanding is that it is a new exemption based on "WCR's "revised safety procedures"  which is most likely to include for additional stewards as WCR have been actively trying to recruit.  

[Mike_Walker]

56 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

My understanding is that it is a new exemption based on "WCR's "revised safety procedures"  which is most likely to include for additional stewards as WCR have been actively trying to recruit.  

 

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

No - but it is in the original Exemption Certificate.  So the question is has the Exemption Certificate been altered or is resumption conditional upon that Certificate being properly complied with?  From at least one of the press reports it reads as if there are still conditions attached to the exemption.

 

I very much doubt the ORR would be prepared to relax the conditions of the original Exemption Certificate especially as the same conditions apply to other operators who comply fully with them.  WCRC's "revised safety procedures" presumably bring them into line.  We can expect the ORR to keep a very close eye on the operation with multiple unannounced inspections.  The expiry date of 30 November is the same as the original WCRC expiry date.  The ORR has made it clear that is not prepared to grant any further extensions or new exemptions.  Eighteen years to comply with the original specification is in their opinion quite long enough.

[Michael Hodgson]

14 hours ago, DCB said:

The only way to keep the ORR really happy is a replacement bus service.    The safest trains are the ones which have been withdrawn and the safest railways those which have been closed.

So if the replacement bus falls off a cliff killing some passengers, should that be classed as a railway accident and investigated under railway rules and included in railway accident statistics?

[DavidBird]

It's back in action today (Wednesday)

 

Based only on a casual observation and nothing else,  the only difference that I could note is now the stewards are not releasing the secondary door locks until they have been given a positive instruction to do so from the guard after the train has come to a halt.

Edited August 9, 2023 by DavidBird

[Ian Hargrave]

14 hours ago, woodenhead said:

And facing away from the direction of travel taking a photo!

Not the best method of illustrating a contemporary news story by trawling up an image from…how many years ago ?

My one & only journey on the Jacobite was in September 2004,hauled by the very same locomotive in that photograph….62005. Times,  ORR & H&S have moved on a bit since then. But then,it’s press & agency stuff and the expected sloppy journalism even from the BBC. I’m surprised they didn’t insert a Harry Potter clip instead

 

It has ,I must confess,given me pause for thought concerning the heads out of the window issue.About a decade ago,I had a journey behind 46233 over the S&C and recall my head being out the window all the way up The Long Drag which included the customary smut in the eye.A year later the experience was repeated over Shap behind the same locomotive. The stock was IIRC Mk 1 and Mk1 Pullman West Coast. Mea culpa naturally. No cautionary concern was evident .Indeed on the first occasion I was even exhorted to enjoy myself by one of the stewards . But that seems to be such an age ago and I make no excuses.

 

 

[Wheatley]

17 hours ago, DCB said:

The only way to keep the ORR really happy is a replacement bus service.    The safest trains are the ones which have been withdrawn and the safest railways those which have been closed.

You must have run foul of a different ORR than the one I've been dealing since they were HMRI.