HS125's to Mexico.

[Forward!]

2 hours ago, Talltim said:

On many lines weekends are now busier than weekdays, so doing engineering weekdays is the lesser of two evils

 

Indeed so, but it's still a pain in the bottom when you actually use the railway ntework for work travel! Sometimes I hit two or three possessions on different parts of the network across different working days. At least when they were at the weekend there was a more defined period when you knew to expect them!

 

Will

Edited October 16, 2023 by Forward!

[admiles]

On 16/10/2023 at 09:53, cctransuk said:

 

I fail to see how HSTs are economical to run in Scotland until 2030, and be very expensively exported to Mexico; (presumably without major rebuild); but not in England or Wales.

 

I fully accept that this is by government directive, but I also fail to see how replacing viable rolling stock with new, expensive, inferior stock can be a cost-saving - unless building new stock is somehow advantageous to the government.

 

CJI.

 

Different countries, different rules. Englands railways are controlled by the Department for Transport where as Scotlands are controlled by Transport Scotland who are more "pro-rail" than DfT.

 

You've also got to understand that as good as the HSTs are they've nearly 50 years old now and pretty tired. Sad as it is, nothing lasts forever. 

[adb968008]

30 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Different countries, different rules. Englands railways are controlled by the Department for Transport where as Scotlands are controlled by Transport Scotland who are more "pro-rail" than DfT.

 

You've also got to understand that as good as the HSTs are they've nearly 50 years old now and pretty tired. Sad as it is, nothing lasts forever. 

Clearly Mexico and Nigeria disagree.

 

The recently refurbish sliding door stock are in very good condition. Assuming they too have been sold, and not just the power cars.

This exercise perversely serves the benefits of Brexit…. BREL had to wait 50 years until after the EU to be able export its wares…

 

Donnt forget the entire fleet of Freightliner 86’s left earlier this summer.. 

who knows maybe class 90’s next ?

We’re the worlds bargain basement right now for used railway stock… everything must go.. saves the DFT, shows British exports are thriving and the results of that vote is working.

 

if only we could find a buyer for 180’s and Voyagers.

Now HS2 is is in the bin, I’d expect some freight diesel overhauls to slow down.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[admiles]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Clearly Mexico and Nigeria disagree.

 

The recently refurbish sliding door stock are in very good condition.

This exercise perversely serves the benefits of Brexit…. BREL had to wait 50 years until after the EU to be able export its wares…

 

Donnt forget the entire fleet of Freightliner 86’s left earlier this summer.. 

who knows maybe class 90’s next ?

 

 

It's not me you have to convince. I don't make the decisions.

 

Actually as Mexico have a trade agreement with the EU and the UK don't it would have cost the Mexicans less if the UK were still in the EU to import the HSTs.

 

The A/C electric fleet is a different problem. The high cost of electricity makes it cheaper to run diesels instead. Crazy but there you go.  In fairness Freightliner did replace their 86's with newer class 90's from Greater Anglia.  Don't see them going anywhere for a while. 

 

Things move on, no point in trying to fight it!

[adb968008]

24 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

It's not me you have to convince. I don't make the decisions.

 

Things move on, no point in trying to fight it!

Agreed, but its not to say the facts shouldnt be straight though…

 

they might 50 years old, but they have been well maintained, and anything that is looked after will last a long time…

class 37’s are still going strong.

 

our newly overhauled coaches will look great overseas, assuming they didnt just buy the stylish looking power cars to make their own stock look good in PR ops.

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[MJI]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Clearly Mexico and Nigeria disagree.

 

The recently refurbish sliding door stock are in very good condition. Assuming they too have been sold, and not just the power cars.

This exercise perversely serves the benefits of Brexit…. BREL had to wait 50 years until after the EU to be able export its wares…

 

Donnt forget the entire fleet of Freightliner 86’s left earlier this summer.. 

who knows maybe class 90’s next ?

We’re the worlds bargain basement right now for used railway stock… everything must go.. saves the DFT, shows British exports are thriving and the results of that vote is working.

 

if only we could find a buyer for 180’s and Voyagers.

Now HS2 is is in the bin, I’d expect some freight diesel overhauls to slow down.

 

 

Sell 800 801 802 please

[Suzie]

This could be interesting, since previous electrification schemes in Mexico have not gone well with an electrified freight line having the electrification scrapped in order to increase to loading gauge - some of the E60 locos were eventually scrapped with the 'as new' protective coverings still on the interior.

[Mike_Walker]

The HSTs may look good to the lineside observer but underneath they are really showing their age with corrosion both in the power cars and coaches.

[adb968008]

44 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

The HSTs may look good to the lineside observer but underneath they are really showing their age with corrosion both in the power cars and coaches.

In 2017 Wabtec overhauled the coaches, tested based on a 15 year life, with a 5 year mod required after 10 years.

This included end pillars.

corrosion is natural, brand new brake discs on a brand new car show corrosion after rainfall.

 

Its whether the corrosion is dangerous, and given our risk averse country, and highly respected RSSB, no fault was assigned to corrosion at Carmont, and merely a plan to self monitor.

 

Had a serious corrosion risk been observed, HSTs would have been immediately stopped causing the same chaos the 800’s did when the cracks were observed.

 

The doors at least are going home, they were made in Mexico by a Wabtec subsidiary, and were tested between -25 and +45 degrees.

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/hsts-2020

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62274fe0e90e0747a49c94ca/R022022_220310_Carmont.pdf

 

I assume the RSSB would study this more than a lineside observer ?

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[Curlew]

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqz_gMt_1Js

[Halvarras]

On 17/10/2023 at 16:01, Mike_Walker said:

The HSTs may look good to the lineside observer but underneath they are really showing their age with corrosion both in the power cars and coaches.

 

I was looking down on a few HSTs this summer and many of the trailer roofs are a patchwork of small rivetted panels. The sides look OK though........

[rodent279]

HST power cars at the SVR, Sunday 5th Nov.

 

 

In line, nearest to furthest away:- 

43480 (Rail Adventure, presumably not being exported)

43307

43306

43320

43316

43468 (Rail Adventure, presumably not being exported)

 

TBH, 306, 307, 317 & 320 look pretty ropey from the outside.

Edited November 6, 2023 by rodent279

[Reorte]

On 16/10/2023 at 09:53, cctransuk said:

 

I fail to see how HSTs are economical to run in Scotland until 2030, and be very expensively exported to Mexico; (presumably without major rebuild); but not in England or Wales.

 

I fully accept that this is by government directive, but I also fail to see how replacing viable rolling stock with new, expensive, inferior stock can be a cost-saving - unless building new stock is somehow advantageous to the government.

I wouldn't mind so much if the newer stuff wasn't considerably more unpleasant to travel on.

[Barclay]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I wouldn't mind so much if the newer stuff wasn't considerably more unpleasant to travel on.

Definitely - I was very glad to get up after about 2 1/2 hours on a train from Euston - Manchester, and indeed the return, a couple of weeks ago. The seats are as hard as iron.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

Definitely - I was very glad to get up after about 2 1/2 hours on a train from Euston - Manchester, and indeed the return, a couple of weeks ago. The seats are as hard as iron.

Wouldn't that have been a Pendolino too? They seem to predate the current ironing board seats.

[Barclay]

10 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Wouldn't that have been a Pendolino too? They seem to predate the current ironing board seats.

I think so - I have no knowledge of the current railway, unless something old and interesting goes past me!

 

The new trains on the GE lines in Essex are very uncomfortable too but at least I only need to spend an hour on those.

[Mike_Walker]

56 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Wouldn't that have been a Pendolino too? They seem to predate the current ironing board seats.

Except they've just been through a refurbishment so perhaps the seats have been replaced to match the forthcoming Avanti IETs...

[ruggedpeak]

On 17/10/2023 at 14:05, admiles said:

Actually as Mexico have a trade agreement with the EU and the UK don't it would have cost the Mexicans less if the UK were still in the EU to import the HSTs.

How does that work?

[admiles]

15 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

How does that work?

 

The EU and Mexico have a bi-lateral trade agreement meaning goods imported into Mexico from the EU are not subject to import duties.  The UK now we have left the EU does not, meaning the HSTs would be liable to import duty. If we were still EU members they would have been duty free.

[birdseyecircus]

 Seen here Being loaded for Africa.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x8xj8mz3mo.amp

There is also a video on Facebook from bbc norfolk, but I can't link to it.

 

Paul

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, birdseyecircus said:

 Seen here Being loaded for Africa.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x8xj8mz3mo.amp

There is also a video on Facebook from bbc norfolk, but I can't link to it.

 

Paul

 

"James Steward, a director of Eastern Rail Services, said: “They’ve got a lot of life left in them.""

 

Precisely - he should know - what the h*ll are we letting them go for - government directive"?!?

 

Buying more foreign rubbish that takes months / years / if ever to get type approval - and is incredibly uncomfortable - when the UK-built stuff has "a lot of life left in them"?!?

 

CJI.

[ruggedpeak]

2 hours ago, admiles said:

 

The EU and Mexico have a bi-lateral trade agreement meaning goods imported into Mexico from the EU are not subject to import duties.  The UK now we have left the EU does not, meaning the HSTs would be liable to import duty. If we were still EU members they would have been duty free.

Is this a fact based upon a knowledge of the detail of trade agreement and the relevant customs policies and tariffs?

 

Interested because in 2021 the UK signed a free trade agreement with Mexico that replicated pre-existing EU agreements.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

"James Steward, a director of Eastern Rail Services, said: “They’ve got a lot of life left in them.""

 

Precisely - he should know - what the h*ll are we letting them go for - government directive"?!?

 

Buying more foreign rubbish that takes months / years / if ever to get type approval - and is incredibly uncomfortable - when the UK-built stuff has "a lot of life left in them"?!?

 

CJI.

Were showing we can improve the balance of trade with more exports.

 

The UK is once again train builder to the world, 47 years of testing and now they are ready to go.

no other country offers all weather all stress QA testing like that.

 

Even that Mutti tomato guy doesnt care as much as we do about our products.

so thats 14 power cars gone, lets hope they dont forget to buy the coaches too, otherwise they may be a bit useless left behind without any power cars.

Edited November 8, 2023 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

"James Steward, a director of Eastern Rail Services, said: “They’ve got a lot of life left in them.""

 

Precisely - he should know - what the h*ll are we letting them go for - government directive"?!?

 

Buying more foreign rubbish that takes months / years / if ever to get type approval - and is incredibly uncomfortable - when the UK-built stuff has "a lot of life left in them"?!?

 

CJI.

Because as @Mike_Walker referred to - they look ok from the surface but being 40+ years old they have a lot of hidden corrosion.

 

They are getting old and it's time to retire them from the UK - the Mexican climate will probably aid battling the corrosion.

[admiles]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Is this a fact based upon a knowledge of the detail of trade agreement and the relevant customs policies and tariffs?

 

Interested because in 2021 the UK signed a free trade agreement with Mexico that replicated pre-existing EU agreements.

 

I have a passing knowledge. The TCA doesn't fully replicate the EU - Mexico trade deal despite what the government would have you believe.