Flying Scotsman has an Accident

[Ian Hargrave]

16 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Theres a layout of the train formation on this page, just dont click on the image it opens a reservations email that will cost you more than your car…

 

https://www.luxurytrainclub.com/general/belmond-royal-scotsman-exclusive-luxury-train/

 
I did. It made me ashamed to complain about the price of a mere bottle of whisky. I imagine certain travel insurance companies are a little apprehensive after last evening’s event. The next Scottish trip does though involve a” Whisky Odyssey “ apparently.That is of course,if it runs….

[adb968008]

I wonder if theres a market for train crash wine, like there is ship wreck treasure ?

[adb968008]

More uptodate photos..

 

the buffers back on the observation car, 46512 in steam on the shed, Royal Scotsman stocks got lights on but doesnt look like passengers on board

 

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/investigations-ongoing-into-flying-scotsman-crash-in-aviemore-which-left-two-in-hospital?fbclid=IwAR2TpAj1RXg53Fb6RgwT4wbbbnm9ETXJ19JuGzvmsi2KOJKrRZ4YjQYaNaE_aem_ARg42cBucuVUeyPBZuvAYm920IxqzqmvjWSNwFb2cldv0ZHvHxW1LQ5xRqiG1pa9xIA

 

unsure why they cant move the stock to a siding and let them restart with 46512… NYMR was up and running next day, as were several other lines following similar incidents.

No sign of 60103, I guess its back on shed.

 

The article says two fire appliances still present, I wonder why ?

Edited September 30, 2023 by adb968008

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Is there any red carpet stock in any case of identical or similar appointment ? Will not the R A I B want to  have a look 

before it or 60103 move ? What’s the procedure in such a case ?

 

Can't see why the RAIB would want to see the carpet unless the red is a blood-stain

[25kV]

Two Scotsmen getting into an altercation on a Friday night, ending up with a lot of spilled drinks?  Say it ain't so!

[Flying Fox 34F]

Having read Mike, The Stationmasters comments, I took a closer look at the photographs in the public domain.  The Buckeye coupler on Scotsman’s tender is dropped and a screw coupling is hanging from the tender’s hook.  
 

I recall in the 1990’s when a volunteer Guard on the Nene Valley Railway, we had Flying Scotsman visit.  The Buckeye was never used, instead the Emergency Screw Coupling was insisted upon.  However, when 60007, Sir Nigel Gresley, visited, Roger Black made sure all the Guards were ready to use the Buckeye.  We had to reset it every time the locomotive changed ends.  Hard work at first, but it soon became second nature.

 

As for the damage within the train, I expect RAIB, will be critical of how much internal damage has occurred.

 

Paul

[Boris]

So much on social media about the "poor locomotive" never mind the people who ended up injured or in hospital.  I'm a bit confused why the buckeye is relevant when the coach in question no longer has the buffing plate or similar fitting to accept a buckeye?  

 

Also when the class 20 got humpy at the NYMR the railway reopened but the coaches had to be lifted to check for centre casting damage on the mk1s, I think the main reason the job was still stopped was because it is likely RAIB wanted to take a look at the scene in the daylight, its a mandatory report if people are sent to hospital, the NYMR were lucky in that nobody was injured.

 

  

Edited September 30, 2023 by Boris

[rab]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The article says two fire appliances still present, I wonder why ?

Waiting to hose down the floor once all the bottles have been cleared???

[Jeremy Cumberland]

2 hours ago, rab said:

Waiting to hose down the floor once all the bottles have been cleared???

I don't suppose anyone else knows the song The Old Dun Cow, about a pub that caught fire, much to the delight of some of the clientele who made their way down to the cellar, pursued by the firemen:

Quote

There was Brown, upside down, lapping up the whisky on the floor.
"Booze, booze!" the firemen cried as they came knocking at the door.
"Don't let them in till it's all drunk up." Somebody shouted "MacIntyre" (MACINTYRE!)
And we all got blue blind paralytic drunk when the Old Dun Cow caught fire

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland

[adb968008]

Maybe it will be like Whisky Galore or the Whicker Man..

 

the man from the ministry arrives in a hurry on the caledonian sleeper on monday,  arrives to find no trace of the train or its alcohol.

he goes to the shed and finds Scotsman without fire.

odd people joke in kilts about the wee train that ram raided a bar on friday night.

bemused he wanders town to find everything closed.

happens on a bin wagon loaded with empty bottles, asks the folk if there was a party, they reply nigh, its just recycling.

 

he checks into the hotel but theres ni rooms available.

he phones back to London and says its completely not what he expected.

just then he hears a faint whistle in the distance, he rushes back to the station.

finds an old steam train arriving, with a handful of people.

he asks the footplate crew about the flying scotsman, they say theyve never heard of it.

he says its right there pointing to the pit where he saw it,  but now its gone.

 

The crew laugh again, he stumbles, disorientated. A guard asks him if hes ok.

and thats when it happened…

[Dagworth]

3 hours ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

The Buckeye coupler on Scotsman’s tender is dropped and a screw coupling is hanging from the tender’s hook.  

Is it normal for the corridor connection to be forward of the buffer heads? Doesn’t seem right to me. I can see saddles on the coach buffer shanks but what is the arrangement on Scotsman? 
That she is buckeye fitted would normally mean extendable/ retractable buffers in my former professional footplate experience.

 

Andi

[31A]

14 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Is it normal for the corridor connection to be forward of the buffer heads? Doesn’t seem right to me. I can see saddles on the coach buffer shanks but what is the arrangement on Scotsman? 
That she is buckeye fitted would normally mean extendable/ retractable buffers in my former professional footplate experience.

 

Andi

 

That's an interesting point actually, it hadn't occurred to me before but the buffers on the LNER corridor tenders aren't retractable (unlike for example on Class 90s or 91s - are they on 33/1s - can't remember), so I suppose they must just depend on the next vehicle's buffers being retracted when they are coupled with the buckeye.

 

[6990WitherslackHall]

So apart from the buffer and the buffet car being trashed, there's no major damage to 60103 or the rolling stock?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Dagworth said:

Is it normal for the corridor connection to be forward of the buffer heads? Doesn’t seem right to me. I can see saddles on the coach buffer shanks but what is the arrangement on Scotsman? 

The buffers are fully compressed, is it just that its just the buffers being compressed is making the rubbing plates extend beyond As theres no equivalent rubbing plate on the coach?

 

it may have locked on the coach buffer, hence why they needed to remove the coach buffer ?

Edited September 30, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

24 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

So apart from the buffer and the buffet car being trashed, there's no major damage to 60103 or the rolling stock?

An army of experts from across the country are as we speak justifying travel expenses to Aviemore for Monday to weigh in their opinion, collect the “i was there badge” and to have lunch and submit an expense claim on tuesday.

 

I dont see any other move in the system, so I guess its a coach to Edinburgh for the Belmond guests for Monday am.

i’m guessing Mondays next Belmond run may be off.

 

Scotsmans next mainline trip is Oct 7th from Edinburgh to Inverness and back.

 

no ones mentioned the poor old 66 in all this… its probably trapped in a siding amongst rusty industrials all alone unnoticed by the press.

Edited September 30, 2023 by adb968008

[Glencoe Model Railway]

There is a video of the incident on Twitter/X now. 
 

I am led to believe that the Obs Car is going by road at some point, to Hamilton, along with possibly the next coach. No word on what’s happening with the loco as yet. 
 

It’s a sad state of the world we live in, where more people are concerned about the state of the rolling stock that the poor individuals who were hurt in the incident. 
 

It also serves as a lesson that rail

safety is just as important on preserved lines as it is the mainline, in some cases more so, as some volunteers may not have the same levels of experience as those that work day in day out for mainline companies. Whilst that may appear sweeping, my experience of helping out on a preserved line certainly made me realise how many things could be tweaked to improve them. 
I hope all involved are ok and get the support they need going forward. 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

 

It’s a sad state of the world we live in, where more people are concerned about the state of the rolling stock that the poor individuals who were hurt in the incident. 

The two individuals who went to hospital were discharged, a man and a woman, both not serious.

A whole nations emergency service showed their rapid reaction skills to the incident.

The highland mainline was closed for two hours to assist.

Hamza Yousef also thanked the Emergency services for their response.

Global television has been focussed on this incident.

 

its clear millionaires drinks were spilled, but I think the fear / support human element has passed, the prevention is the next stage. 

i’m sure Belmond is taking care of its other staff and guests. 

it maybe Royal Scotsman is considered an extreme sport in the future.

We dont, wont and shouldnt really be privy to individuals medical records, other than it would appear they are ok, i think we should accept that, unless you have reason to doubt it ?.. that said i’m sure lawyers will vying for an angle.

 

(Fwiw I was personally in a 100mph train crash on a crossing that was fatal, so I’m not without empathy).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

There is a video of the incident on Twitter/X now. 
 

I am led to believe that the Obs Car is going by road at some point, to Hamilton, along with possibly the next coach. No word on what’s happening with the loco as yet. 
 

It’s a sad state of the world we live in, where more people are concerned about the state of the rolling stock that the poor individuals who were hurt in the incident. 
 

It also serves as a lesson that rail

safety is just as important on preserved lines as it is the mainline, in some cases more so, as some volunteers may not have the same levels of experience as those that work day in day out for mainline companies. Whilst that may appear sweeping, my experience of helping out on a preserved line certainly made me realise how many things could be tweaked to improve them. 
I hope all involved are ok and get the support they need going forward. 

 

Surely the people involved would be employees of Belmond rather than volunteers.

 

Hardly a "Mickey Mouse" organisation, they are worth billions!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmond_Limited

 

 

Jason

[Glencoe Model Railway]

Belmond don’t operate the loco when on the Strathspey. Under normal circumstances it’s Strathspey drivers (volunteers) but not sure who was driving the FS. On the mainline, the traction provider is GBRf 

 

Cheers

[Glencoe Model Railway]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The two individuals who went to hospital were discharged, a man and a woman, both not serious.

A whole nations emergency service showed their rapid reaction skills to the incident.

The highland mainline was closed for two hours to assist.

Hamza Yousef also thanked the Emergency services for their response.

Global television has been focussed on this incident.

 

its clear millionaires drinks were spilled, but I think the fear / support human element has passed, the prevention is the next stage. 

i’m sure Belmond is taking care of its other staff and guests. 

it maybe Royal Scotsman is considered an extreme sport in the future.

We dont, wont, and shouldnt be privy to individuals medical records for discussion, other than it would appear they are ok, i think we should accept that, unless you have reason to doubt it ?.. that said i’m sure lawyers will vying for an angle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good news that the folks are ok, that’s the main thing. 
 

Cheers

[adb968008]

18 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

That should also happen on heritage/leisure railways as they were all sent a 'suitable  reminder and Instruction' following the fatality of a Guard during shunting on the NYMR some years ago.  If their Rule Book and procedues did not include coming to a stand c.20ft short before setting back to couple they were told that it should.  Really poor railway work to do anything else anyway so people should hardly need reminding or instructing.

 

…

 

 

Exactly so.  the Shunter would be bringing the engine back on a white light until h gives him a green light to slow down the a red light to stop c.20 feet from the train to which the engine will be coupled.   Final check to ensure that the brake pipe on the train is open to atmosphere (was it? - look at the pics) to keep the train stationary, double check the coupling on the tender is in the right position then carefully bring the engine back on a green light = dead slow then a red to stop the engine  just before the buffers meet brakes applied.

 

In fact it's pfteb easier to do it in the dark, poor light conditions, when it's easier to see a light than it is to see handsignals during daylight.  Any cmpetent Shunter and loco crew should have no difficyulty at all doing that although sometimes there can be a bit too heavy a bump when teh engine meets the train.  Good Driver and Shunter and people on the train won't even notice the engine arriving.

 

I wonder who got into a right panic after it happen ed and alerted most the emergency services in the County?  That person needsa good talking to whoever they were but especially if they were staff.

 

 

 

That video…of what happened. Reminds me of 61264 at Norwich or the NNR buffer incidents with the J15 and B12.

 

https://twitter.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=35EvlrGD6HTcy6oslZM3Yw

 

I must admit i’d be a bit concerned if I were on that verandah, but i’m not sure putting the highlands of Scotland in a full on major emergency services alert and escalating to Scottish parliament level was warranted.

But understanding how secure customised railway vehicle interiors are, especially catering area equipment and how that is signed off maybe warranted.. coffee machines, microwaves, fridges, diswashers etc are not lightweight trivial things when unexpectedly mobile. Given the very low speed of the impact, this could have ramifications for preserved railways with such conversions too.

Galley equipment, with latches etc does exist and is used in other modes of transportation for exactly such incidents.

 

i’m also a bit unsure about having people on that verandah.. its lucky the ricochet didnt send someone over the verandah, theres not much to hold on to, and people tend to be top heavy.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by adb968008

[Flying Fox 34F]

This incident implies poor design and engineering within the kitchen and bar area’s on the train.  Smashed bottles are bad enough, but a completely upturned kitchen is very dangerous.

 

Paul
 

 

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

That video…of what happened. Reminds me of 61264 at Norwich or the NNR buffer incidents with the J15 and B12.

 

https://twitter.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=35EvlrGD6HTcy6oslZM3Yw

 

I must admit i’d be a bit concerned if I were on that verandah, but i’m not sure putting the highlands of Scotland in a full on major emergency services alert and escalating to Scottish parliament level was warranted.

But understanding how secure customised railway vehicle interiors are, especially catering area equipment and how that is signed off maybe warranted.. coffee machines, microwaves, fridges, diswashers etc are not lightweight trivial things when unexpectedly mobile.

 

i’m also a bit unsure about having people on that verandah.. its lucky the ricochet didnt send someone over the verandah, theres not much to hold on to, and people tend to be top heavy.

 

 

Just goes to show the effect of momentum - it always works!

[6990WitherslackHall]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

no one's mentioned the poor old 66 in all this… its probably trapped in a siding amongst rusty industrials all alone unnoticed by the press.

Because all attention is focused on 60103 rather than anything else. With that said, which one was it? 66743 or 66746?

 

 

[Trestrol]

1 hour ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

This incident implies poor design and engineering within the kitchen and bar area’s on the train.  Smashed bottles are bad enough, but a completely upturned kitchen is very dangerous.

 

Paul
 

 

This has happened before to the Royal Scotsman set. There was an exLNER carriage converted to an RF. This was involved in a rough shunt at Craigentinny. All the kitchen units moved some breaching partition walls. Chipboard and MDF were used and kitchen fittings were screwed to the floor. Designing a railway carriage layout is not a job for your average kitchen/shop fitter. I wouldn't be surprised if the RAIB don't start and look at in-house conversations.

Looking at the video I can't see a shunter waving him back.poor practice.