34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67681360 I suspect that in this event, the railway will be one of the lesser concerns. Disruption of nuclear power station operation anyone? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 11, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2023 It was first reported by the Daily Star - nuff said. Obviously given up on the 8' snow drifts & -20C blast from the arctic.😄 It will have a similar effect on all the world's railways, all the mobile phones, the radio & TV etc. etc. Best call in Dr Who. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 11, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2023 I read said article and quite frankly, what a load of proverbial reproductive sphericals... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 11, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2023 (edited) Back down on earth 92’s, 442s were know to flip signals too. Sounds like an academic looking for money by creating a story about fear. Edited December 11, 2023 by adb968008 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 11, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2023 Just now, adb968008 said: Back down on earth 92’s, 442s were know to flip signals too. Can they zap Nuclear power stations as well?😁 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 11, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, melmerby said: Can they zap Nuclear power stations as well?😁 No thats reserved for class 46’s, fortunately theres only 3 left, and the last one that tried came off badly. G4S bless em, saving us all ? Edited December 11, 2023 by adb968008 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2023 Next, they'll be saying that the Y2K bug is a thing and planes will fall from the sky. Ah, oops.... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovbulleid Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 It’s another article where they’re confusing impact and probability. Space weather is of huge concern to government as it would damage satellites on which so much depends. It could in a worst case scenario render ships unable to navigate apart from by sextant (a number of pre-GPS systems have been deactivated) which would leave them either wandering about taking longer routes or running aground. This would also impact any satellite based communications (which I believe includes some forms of signalling). Fortunately there are ways of detecting space weather in advance (as anyone who watched the surprisingly-not-completely-terrible series one of COBRA on Sky One). Like Y2K, the UK’s system has never been properly tested, though other countries have had light encounters. In short, it’s not rubbish, but something else, we just don’t know what… 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, ovbulleid said: In short, it’s not rubbish, but something else, we just don’t know what… Yes and no. The impact of solar storms is a known problem, and one that's caused some major issues in the past - the article mentions the damage caused in Canada once. But because it's known and there are ways to mitigate against it, which I believe are generally used already, the risk would seem to be pretty small and thus not really worth worrying about (which isn't the same as saying those mitigations aren't useful - they're why the risk is small). All in all it looks like another case of getting too worried by "but what if...?" and "but it could happen!" (something which needs to be discouraged due to the boy who cried wolf effect it can have when genuinely serious issues roll around). Edited December 12, 2023 by Reorte 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2023 I'm buying one of these 1 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2023 16 hours ago, melmerby said: Can they zap Nuclear power stations as well?😁 92s might - or rather maybe could have until they were sorted as theirr electro=magnetic emissions spectrum was described by one engineer as being on a par with the explosion of a small nuclear weapon. But 90s are even worse. If the WCML can withstand 92s - which it did when teh tesrting was carried out - and various lines in the south east could withstand 373s, and 92s a bit of interference from the sun is hardly going to cause a problem. However one sort of jointless track circuit (T121??) was more prone to electro-magnetic interference than any other circuit and they were all removed on any Eurostar and Class 92 route -0m as a start in getting rid of them from the whole network. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Time to dig the 2020 Callendar out !! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) Back to reality. The Radio telescope at Jodrell Bank alongside the Manchester to Crewe railway was electronically affected when the railway was electrified. It was soon sorted though. Brit15 Edited December 12, 2023 by AY Mod Copyright image removed 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Another good reason to avoid that new-fangled DCC! A. Luddite Esq. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkscratching Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 1 minute ago, cctransuk said: Another good reason to avoid that new-fangled DCC! A. Luddite Esq. I'm sticking with tinplate clockwork.. 👍 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, APOLLO said: Back to reality. The Radio telescope at Jodrell Bank alongside the Manchester to Crewe railway was electronically affected when the railway was electrified. It was soon sorted though. Brit15 They've stopped running trains through Lord's Bridge station ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cmglee_Cambridge_MRAO_One_Mile_Half_Mile_4C.jpg. Edited December 12, 2023 by AY Mod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2023 Thats what E stands for… A.. Austerity B.. Brexit C.. Covid D.. Depression E.. Electromagnetic interference F.. F….d. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkscratching Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Thats what E stands for… A.. Austerity B.. Brexit C.. Covid D.. Depression E.. Electromagnetic interference F.. F….d. Thought it was Ecstacy.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: a bit of interference from the sun is hardly going to cause a problem. Perfectly credible that it could cause very severe problems. The question is how often conditions severe enough to do so might arise, or put another way the probability that it will occur in a given timespan. I can’t find anywhere what the estimated frequency of event is, but NR put Martin Frobisher forward to comment on it, he’s a chap whose judgement I trust, and he effectively batted it away, saying that there are far more important risks to focus on, not least those arising due to climate change. High consequence, very low probability event. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted December 12, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) The blackout in Canada suggests the probability is high enough to factor into contingency planning. It is always good to be aware of potential hazards even if you have no effective way of guarding against their happening or mitigating their effects. Solar storms always come with several hours' warning, even if predictions of their severity are often inaccurate, as anyone with an aurora alert set up can probably testify. If a solar storm hits, and odd things start happening with railway signalling, then if someone has previously modelled likely or worst case effects, railway operators might have some idea of the best actions to take. Edited December 12, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 The 2024 to Crewe has been cancelled due to the wrong kind of high energy particles on the line. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 A really strong solar storm could cause major problems, especially for the electricity transmission system. It has happened once in recent times in Canada in 1989, as other folk have already mentioned, causing an outage of the electric transmission system there. Lookup the "Carrington Event", which is the most intense solar storm in recorded history, which took place 1-2 Sept 1859. Since electric transmission systems had yet to be invented at the time, the one notable impact was on telegraph systems, with their long lines stretching across countries. There have been "Carrington scale" solar flares observed in recent times, but these have missed hitting the Earth - so there is a reasonable probability that another solar storm of Carrington scale will occur again. But now, we are much more vulnerable due to our extensive electricity transmission systems and our dependence on them. Yours, Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted December 13, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2023 It strikes me as a typical example of a known issue providing fodder for some fear porn. I don't dispute the possibility, or that resilience to interference is an important matter but I could names loads of similar risks which nobody outside appropriate technical specialists worries about (nor should they). It strikes me as the equivalent of stories about the dire risk of a blockade of the Malacca Strait when the media need a bit of fear porn. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 13, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2023 17 hours ago, Porkscratching said: I'm sticking with tinplate clockwork.. 👍 Just make sure the key design, isn't protected by copyright! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted December 13, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2023 Given that trains can’t seem to operate in heavy rain now , I think there are a few things that need to be looked at before solar storms Remember the days when railways were the reliable form of transport , forcing their way through snow , wind , rain when motor vehicles couldn’t make it……..not any more 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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