Hornby latest 8F

[ColinB]

Does anyone know if Hornby have updated their latest 8F that they have just released? Alternatively is it just a better paint job and the decoder moved to the tender.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Not a clue, but the catalogue photo shown on retailer sites is unchanged from whenever it was introduced in loco drive form - circa 2002? - with all these weaknesses:

Socking great lump of metal  through the bottom of the boiler, where there should be airspace between boiler uinderside and frames: skillfully garnished with a large spinning gear shaft end both sides! - and carefully chromed so you cannot miss it.

Fictional valance on tender frame resulting in misrepresentation of the springs and axleboxes.

Lumpen brick of a pony truck.

Poor traction because it is too light. (Nothing wrong with the motor and drive train's output , put an  old H-D or Wrenn cast metal body on it and it pulls like a heavy freight loco should.)

 

Hornby have all the technique required to produce a vastly superior model. Unless your need is urgent I would wait until they pull their finger out...

[Flying Pig]

3 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Socking great lump of metal  through the bottom of the boiler, where there should be airspace between boiler uinderside and frames: skillfully garnished with a large spinning gear shaft end both sides! - and carefully chromed so you cannot miss it.

 

The correct term for such a protrusion is "boggle".  We really shouldn't let these old words die.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I feel that 'biggle' would be more appropriate to this particular specimen.

[Steamport Southport]

Until they turn up we won't know, but I'm pretty sure they already have a better 4000 gallon tender than the one in the mock up without the shelf.

 

 

 

Jason

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Hornby have all the technique required to produce a vastly superior model. Unless your need is urgent I would wait until they pull their finger out...

 

The problem with waiting would be that when Hornby do release the new 8F it will have ridiculously unprototypical LED lamps and smoke and everything else the modeller doesn't want. 

[MikeParkin65]

Personally dont share the view of @34theletterbetweenB&D that the Hornby 8f is that bad but it is certainly showing its age and could easily be improved upon now. I'm sure Hornby would have been clear if they were releasing a new tool 8f so I believe currently advertised models are using the existing tools. I definitely wouldnt pay the current asking price as second hand they are plentiful at the £75 or so. If a Fowler tender is required then get a second hand Mainline or Bachmann  version for £20. Repaints dont come easier than on 8F's :)

[ColinB]

43 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Personally dont share the view of @34theletterbetweenB&D that the Hornby 8f is that bad but it is certainly showing its age and could easily be improved upon now. I'm sure Hornby would have been clear if they were releasing a new tool 8f so I believe currently advertised models are using the existing tools. I definitely wouldnt pay the current asking price as second hand they are plentiful at the £75 or so. If a Fowler tender is required then get a second hand Mainline or Bachmann  version for £20. Repaints dont come easier than on 8F's :)

I must admit I wasn't thinking of buying one, I just wondered if it was the same as the one I already have. It sounds like it is. I modified mine so the decoder is in the tender but it sounds like it is exactly the same. They could have least put firebox flicker in it to make it look like they had done some work. I bought the latest LMS Fowler 4p and was horrified to find it is exactly the same as my old ones, which Jenny Kirk was saying are at least 20 years old. That is an incredible price for a 20 plus years loco.

[HExpressD]

53 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

The problem with waiting would be that when Hornby do release the new 8F it will have ridiculously unprototypical LED lamps and smoke and everything else the modeller doesn't want. 

"Everything else you don't want"...

[MikeParkin65]

13 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

"Everything else you don't want"...

Mmmmmmm - a little unfair. By definition modellers model, we don't want features not present on the prototype even if other segments of the market do. 

[Wheatley]

31 minutes ago, ColinB said:

 I bought the latest LMS Fowler 4p and was horrified to find it is exactly the same as my old ones, which Jenny Kirk was saying are at least 20 years old. That is an incredible price for a 20 plus years loco.

If you mean the Compound then apart from the loco drive mods (which I don't think are quite 20 years old) try 40+ ! 

 

The Fowler 2-6-4T is of similar vintage apart from a new(er) motor to replace the original X04.

 

1980 ? Year Of The Locomotive - there was the Compound, Schools, D49 and some GWR thing.   It was either the "Ticket to Ride" catalogue or one of the ones either side. 

[ColinB]

7 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

If you mean the Compound then apart from the loco drive mods (which I don't think are quite 20 years old) try 40+ ! 

 

The Fowler 2-6-4T is of similar vintage apart from a new(er) motor to replace the original X04.

 

1980 ? Year Of The Locomotive - there was the Compound, Schools, D49 and some GWR thing.   It was either the "Ticket to Ride" catalogue or one of the ones either side. 

The Fowler 2-6-4T they did modify when they changed the motor, I had the old one and sold it, it was so noisy. They added a lot more detail and I think the earlier body doesn't fit the later chassis. Ok call me a cynic but as this hobby is classed as appealing to an aging population, how is Hornby going to make a profit when you can buy these locos pre used for substantially less. Then there are people like me that already own one, the only reason I bought the newly released Hornby one was my LMS red one was damaged (missing front buffer bar, fixed by one from a tender)  and I fancied a better one. I suppose the good news is possibly in 6 months time there might be some spares available.

[ColinB]

54 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Mmmmmmm - a little unfair. By definition modellers model, we don't want features not present on the prototype even if other segments of the market do. 

The trouble is that when they add lights as in the case of the Turbomotive they are not subtle like the ones YouChoos sell, but substantially over scale. 

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, ColinB said:

The trouble is that when they add lights as in the case of the Turbomotive they are not subtle like the ones YouChoos sell, but substantially over scale. 

Agree. 

[Fair Oak Junction]

So, Hornby are charging £250 for a 20 year loco but the new tooled Black 5s are £230?

Am I missing something here? 🤔

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

So, Hornby are charging £250 for a 20 year loco but the new tooled Black 5s are £230?

Am I missing something here? 🤔

20 quid ;-) Seriously, you do wonder at the pricing. OK the Sanda Kan era 8F might well be more expensive to assemble, but surely the tooling costs will have been amortised long ago, unlike the Black 5. The market shall prevail at the end of the day.

[ColinB]

59 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

20 quid ;-) Seriously, you do wonder at the pricing. OK the Sanda Kan era 8F might well be more expensive to assemble, but surely the tooling costs will have been amortised long ago, unlike the Black 5. The market shall prevail at the end of the day.

I tried to avoid the price as people around here seem to get upset if I complain. I did wonder when I saw it, thinking how do intend selling it. Most of us already have one. I honestly don't know why they don't do what we used to do in the motor industry, add a couple of insignificant features that don't cost any money and sell it as a new model. Things like firebox flicker or a decent painted crew, but no they don't. I just think they think "its Hornby they have to have it". Do you know you could buy an old one which is exactly the same and pay TMC to renumber it and it would still be cheaper.

[SD85]

A newly tooled 8F is one of the most obvious steam outline locomotives for any manufacturer to produce IMO and it's just bizarre that no one seems to be contemplating it. The current Hornby model is 20 years old and decent enough but is rarely in the catalogue and as noted above has its issues. I was wondering if Hornby were going to retool it after doing the 9F and the Black 5s but nothing has been announced so far.

Edited February 8 by SD85

[phil-b259]

22 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

The Fowler 2-6-4T is of similar vintage apart from a new(er) motor to replace the original X04.

 

 

NO ITS NOT!

 

That lie has been trotted out before by many folk (including a certain U-Tuber) and it needs to be exposed for the nonsense that it is.

 

The current Fowler 4P 2-6-4 tank is a completely retooled item (body + chassis) done at some point in the 2000 - 2010 decade.

 

How do I know that - well I bought one of those 4P tanks (R055) in around 1990 and had it until a couple of years ago. I also bought a newer example (R2224) around 2010 so I know what I am talking about.

 

My R055 had chunky motion, no cab detail (and in fact a large lump of plastic running across the middle of the cab), no sprung buffers, no lamp irons, crude moulded on smoke box door handles, builders plate and misshapen moulded blobs tying to represent coupling hooks.

 

 

 

By contrast my R2224 has much finer valve gear, separately fitted detail like lamp irons, coupling hooks, smoke box door handle a decent cab interior and sprung buffers.

 

 

Incidentally the chassis of this newer version is also used under the Stanier designed 2-6-4 tanks produced by Hornby - and before anyone cries foul that is because in real life the Stanier 2-6-4T was exactly the same in terms of its wheelbase / running gear as its Fowler design predecessor.

 

Edited February 8 by phil-b259

[ColinB]

10 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

NO ITS NOT!

 

That lie has been trotted out before by many folk (including a certain U-Tuber) and it needs to be exposed for the nonsense that it is.

 

The current Fowler 4P 2-6-4 tank is a completely retooled item (body + chassis) done at some point in the 2000 - 2010 decade.

 

How do I know that - well I bought one of those 4P tanks (R055) in around 1990 and had it until a couple of years ago. I also bought a newer example (R2224) around 2010 so I know what I am talking about.

 

My R055 had chunky motion, no cab detail (and in fact a large lump of plastic running across the middle of the cab), no sprung buffers, no lamp irons, crude moulded on smoke box door handles, builders plate and misshapen moulded blobs tying to represent coupling hooks.

 

 

 

By contrast my R2224 has much finer valve gear, separately fitted detail like lamp irons, coupling hooks, smoke box door handle a decent cab interior and sprung buffers.

 

 

Incidentally the chassis of this newer version is also used under the Stanier designed 2-6-4 tanks produced by Hornby - and before anyone cries foul that is because in real life the Stanier 2-6-4T was exactly the same in terms of its wheelbase / running gear as its Fowler design predecessor.

 

You didn't read my post, I actually said that, although I did miss out the finer detailed valve gear. What we are saying is even if at the latest it is 2010 model that is 14 years old. According to Jenny Kirk when she was singing the virtues of the one she got cheap, it is about 20 years old and she had the retooled one as it is the same one as I have. I have no issue with them rereleasing it but their pricing structure sucks, thinking it is on a par with a modern Manor from the likes of Dapol or Accurascale. For a start they need to reengineer it so you fit their own product HM7000 and powerpack into it at least Bachmann do that with their old models. I fitted a LaisDCC powerpack in mine but that is substantially smaller than the Hornby offering as is the decoder.

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

So, Hornby are charging £250 for a 20 year loco but the new tooled Black 5s are £230?

Am I missing something here? 🤔

You are if you buy one right now. Wait a few months for the price to drop.Seriously though,what we are all forgetting is that the pandemic & worldwide turmoil have substantially changed the game over the last 4 years and our values are maybe in need of rebalancing.The world has turned turtle several times since the Fowler was released last.So then a question of “ caveat emptor “ ? 

[MikeParkin65]

First release of the present Fowler 4P tank tooling was R2224 as LMS 2311 along with R2223 and R2287 in BR Black in 2003 according to the Ramseys guide

[frobisher]

12 minutes ago, ColinB said:

You didn't read my post, I actually said that, although I did miss out the finer detailed valve gear.

 

Though you imply by the use of "modify" that it is descended from the same tooling as the 80's one...

 

22 hours ago, ColinB said:

The Fowler 2-6-4T they did modify when they changed the motor, I had the old one and sold it, it was so noisy. They added a lot more detail and I think the earlier body doesn't fit the later chassis. Ok call me a cynic but as this hobby is classed as appealing to an aging population, how is Hornby going to make a profit when you can buy these locos pre used for substantially less. Then there are people like me that already own one, the only reason I bought the newly released Hornby one was my LMS red one was damaged (missing front buffer bar, fixed by one from a tender)  and I fancied a better one. I suppose the good news is possibly in 6 months time there might be some spares available.

 

It's not modified, it was completely new tooling.

[Wheatley]

I stand corrected, thank you. 

 

[Jub45565]

The current 8F has quite a bloated firebox to allow for the gearbox etc - so the better starting point for an 8F is the old body, as used in the (current unavailable direct) Comet kit.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lms-stanier-8f-2-8-0-kit-lk5/