Hornby latest 8F

[ColinB]

54 minutes ago, NBL said:

You cannot compare prices of different manufacturers unless they are making the exact same model with the exact same overheads, and exact same business models.

 

Things cost what they cost, we are not forced to buy them.  It's not bread or medicine, it's luxury products.  Moaning about prices is only bringing angst to yourself.

 

 

I agree with the fact we are not forced to buy them and time will tell. As to the comparison, most firms do exactly that, we had a whole department dedicated to it, if you don't, you become uncompetitive and generally lose sales. 

[lmrwrersr]

Sorry to intrude on the price discussion. If the Rails photos shown earleir in this thread are of the actual 48518 as released, then it appears to have the curved reversing rod which is the wrong one for this loco - it should have the later straight reversing rod. Strange because the Hornby stock illustration shows the correct straight one. Factory error that's slipped through? Super detail? - mmm.

[ColinB]

39 minutes ago, ColinB said:

I agree with the fact we are not forced to buy them and time will tell. As to the comparison, most firms do exactly that, we had a whole department dedicated to it, if you don't, you become uncompetitive and generally lose sales. 

The thing that is quite interesting with Hornby which I have great difficulty understanding is replacement motors. If they have it, they are the cheapest you can ever get it, sometimes it is really difficult to figure if they are making a profit on some items. At a certain spares retailer they are quite often double the price. So obviously they must have a different philosophy for that part of the business.

[micklner]

Ali Express is very good for Motors and various bits and pieces.

 

https://laisdcc.aliexpress.com/store/2977030?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.f22d1802A61pjR

 

 

[ColinB]

15 minutes ago, micklner said:

Ali Express is very good for Motors and various bits and pieces.

 

https://laisdcc.aliexpress.com/store/2977030?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.f22d1802A61pjR

 

 

Thank you that is really useful information. I looked everywhere trying to get replacement flywheels.

[melmerby]

14 hours ago, ColinB said:

I hate to say it but you can't compare the price of a Ford Focus headlight unit to a Hornby model railway loco. For a start this loco is about 20 years old, the Ford Focus headlight you are quoting is probably a LED based one, totally difference technology with probably a ton of electronics. 

Nope

The ones I was looking at were the 2015 update model for my particular car, neither is LED, the expensive one was the optional Xenon lamps, the basic "cheap" (😄) one was the Halogen, which my vehicle has.

Many of the model specific parts are custom made* and not available from the after market suppliers and hence well overpriced. I suspect the makers are doing the same as Printer manufacturers and selling the vehicles (Printers) relatively cheaply and coining it in after sale parts (inks).

 

*Gone are the days of round 7" lights fitted to every vehicle.

Edited February 9 by melmerby

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Ali Express is very good for Motors and various bits and pieces.

 

https://laisdcc.aliexpress.com/store/2977030?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.f22d1802A61pjR

 

 

Ah. Lais, the pirating company.

[ColinB]

19 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Nope

The ones I was looking at were the 2015 update model for my particular car, neither is LED, the expensive one was the optional Xenon lamps, the basic "cheap" (😄) one was the Halogen, which my vehicle has.

Many of the model specific parts are custom made* and not available from the after market suppliers and hence well overpriced. I suspect the makers are doing the same as Printer manufacturers and selling the vehicles (Printers) relatively cheaply and coining it in after sale parts (inks).

 

*Gone are the days of round 7" lights fitted to every vehicle.

That is the same as my car, shame if I was still working I would have checked on the system. Seems incredibly high normally parts like that are cheaper because that is one of the things that the insurance companies rate a car on. Just checked, £240 from Ford Direct even cheaper from a motor factor. 

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Ah. Lais, the pirating company.

Whatever you can buy the exact same decoder without any strink wrap on it at close to double the price as a Dapol Imperium

[micklner]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Ah. Lais, the pirating company.

No idea either way. One of many if it is.

 

I found a correct size motor for a Hornby Loco for £6 therin , no one else had them anywhere. A old list said £46 from the makers when they had some .

 

No brainer for me, and the motor works far better than the original,  simply because the original was fried and it actually works and does'nt try to melt the Locos body when running !!.

 

 

[Covkid]

On 07/02/2024 at 16:03, HExpressD said:

"Everything else you don't want"...

 

On 07/02/2024 at 16:19, MikeParkin65 said:

Mmmmmmm - a little unfair. By definition modellers model, we don't want features not present on the prototype even if other segments of the market do. 

 

On 07/02/2024 at 17:15, ColinB said:

The trouble is that when they add lights as in the case of the Turbomotive they are not subtle like the ones YouChoos sell, but substantially over scale. 

 

"HExpressD" obviously doesn't agree.

We seem to have arrived at a plateau where good accurate ascale looking models are no longer enough, and manufacturers think their consumers wanted the "added value" trinkets. Example A is horrible gaudy overscale bright representations of paraffin lamps. And exhibit B is autouncouplers with a copper solenoid on display.  Hopefully the production models will have the copper painted black, but it clearly is the age of the value added gizmo in toy trains

[Steamport Southport]

50 minutes ago, Covkid said:

"HExpressD" obviously doesn't agree.

We seem to have arrived at a plateau where good accurate ascale looking models are no longer enough, and manufacturers think their consumers wanted the "added value" trinkets. Example A is horrible gaudy overscale bright representations of paraffin lamps. And exhibit B is autouncouplers with a copper solenoid on display.  Hopefully the production models will have the copper painted black, but it clearly is the age of the value added gizmo in toy trains

 

Hasn't that always been the case though?

 

Chuff Chuff sound and Cyranosmoke back in the day.

Opening smokebox doors and flickering fireboxes in the 1970s.

Then in the 1980s both Hornby and Mainline dabbled with sound and smoke again....

 

Hornby tried a similar autocoupler on the older 08 shunter with worked with a balance weight,

 

Now such things are seen as being high end features rather than aimed at the train set market.

 

 

Jason

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

No idea either way. One of many if it is.

They were caught pirating TCS decoders and it got legal.

Their decoder tester is a blatant copy of the ESU one.

 

If you are OK using cheap Chinese rip offs, so be it.

I am not and won't touch them with a barge pole.

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Whatever you can buy the exact same decoder without any strink wrap on it at close to double the price as a Dapol Imperium

I can buy a genuine European made decoder that isn't a pirated one for less than an Imperium 21 pin.

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Whatever you can buy the exact same decoder without any strink wrap on it at close to double the price as a Dapol Imperium

They make incredibly good "stay alives" I don't think they copied anyone because they are far superior to any others on the market. Trouble  with a lot of electronics firms is they Outsource to China, China doesn't recognise Copyright, so in some ways they deserve what they get. Their decoders work a lot better than many I have used and have the added bonus that if you blow them up you haven't lost much. They are great as function decoders where you want to put lighting in a dummy HST or trailer.

[micklner]

On 09/02/2024 at 19:03, melmerby said:

They were caught pirating TCS decoders and it got legal.

Their decoder tester is a blatant copy of the ESU one.

 

If you are OK using cheap Chinese rip offs, so be it.

I am not and won't touch them with a barge pole.

I can buy a genuine European made decoder that isn't a pirated one for less than an Imperium 21 pin.

Needs must in the real world.

 

No idea re DCC products, as I do not have any interest in DCC .

Edited February 12 by micklner

[Woowooo437]

Back to the actual model. I was going to buy this but the photographs show Hornby has had the smokebox detail, that must (?) have previously been hand fitted now MOULDED on. So they are backdating an old model to pre 2000 (standards). What a silly and deceptive thing to do. I wonder (hohoho) if they made this clear when accumulating orders. 

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, Woowooo437 said:

Back to the actual model. I was going to buy this but the photographs show Hornby has had the smokebox detail, that must (?) have previously been hand fitted now MOULDED on. So they are backdating an old model to pre 2000 (standards). What a silly and deceptive thing to do. I wonder (hohoho) if they made this clear when accumulating orders. 

I really do find that amazing, why would you do that? It appears they have shifted the decoder to the tender, correct me if I am wrong, but I think on the last version it was in the loco. I assume that they have rewired the pickups so there are two wires rather than one wire and the other using the chassis as a return. The smokebox door is a separate fitting so I suppose you can use a moulded one from a railroad model meaning it is not a new design. I won't say it but I just get the opinion that Hornby are doing what a lot of firms do when they are in trouble, cut back on development. Unfortunately, it usually doesn't end well. It perhaps would have been a better idea to leave the decoder in the loco, use the 4 pin connector to connect to the pickups in the tender and add firebox flicker controlled by the decoder. Minimum investment but appears a totally revamped model.

[ColinB]

On the subject though of old models, I bought the latest maroon Fowler 4p tank, my one was old and tatty. On the Hornby web site someone was complaining theirs derailed a lot, so I checked mine. I have about 6 of these mainly broken ones I bought cheap off EBay that I have fixed, except for one I bought new at a huge discount. I tried all of them on my layout and they all run perfectly, try the new one and sure enough it derails. I don't when they did it but Hornby had fitted a thinner pivot bolt to the read bogie on the latest one, which when replaced with the earlier one fixes the problem.

[MikeParkin65]

6 hours ago, Woowooo437 said:

Back to the actual model. I was going to buy this but the photographs show Hornby has had the smokebox detail, that must (?) have previously been hand fitted now MOULDED on. So they are backdating an old model to pre 2000 (standards). What a silly and deceptive thing to do. I wonder (hohoho) if they made this clear when accumulating orders. 

I wonder if the smokebox door is from the old tender drive version and there has been a mix up either by Hornby or at the factory. Cock up rather than conspiracy? 

[Fair Oak Junction]

You'd think the loco drive tooling would have the correct smokebox door, not randomly one from the older tender drive tooling set that surely must have been retired a while ago?

[ColinB]

8 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

You'd think the loco drive tooling would have the correct smokebox door, not randomly one from the older tender drive tooling set that surely must have been retired a while ago?

It has got to be a mix up. The 8F is a premium model although the design is quite old, which is reflected in the price.

[MikeParkin65]

10 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

You'd think the loco drive tooling would have the correct smokebox door, not randomly one from the older tender drive tooling set that surely must have been retired a while ago?

Just speculation on my part but it seems a weird and presumably relatively expensive move to tool a new smokebox door that is a  retrograde step back from the original and as @ColinB says on a model that is being sold at a premium price. 

[Fair Oak Junction]

The whole situation is very strange, and in all likelihood we'll never find an definitive answer.

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, ColinB said:

On the subject though of old models, I bought the latest maroon Fowler 4p tank, my one was old and tatty. On the Hornby web site someone was complaining theirs derailed a lot, so I checked mine. I have about 6 of these mainly broken ones I bought cheap off EBay that I have fixed, except for one I bought new at a huge discount. I tried all of them on my layout and they all run perfectly, try the new one and sure enough it derails. I don't when they did it but Hornby had fitted a thinner pivot bolt to the read bogie on the latest one, which when replaced with the earlier one fixes the problem.

I got the latest maroon Fowler 4p tank about nine years ago. It derailed and ran badly. One of the brass bearings hadn’t been seated in the recess but was jammed between the chassis and the keeper plate. Once I’d fixed that, it ran beautifully.

[ColinB]

42 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I got the latest maroon Fowler 4p tank about nine years ago. It derailed and ran badly. One of the brass bearings hadn’t been seated in the recess but was jammed between the chassis and the keeper plate. Once I’d fixed that, it ran beautifully.

I had the same issue of my old 8F, the one this thread started over. Every time at a certain point on the train there was a huge clunk. Eventually it worked out that there was no free movement sideways one axle of the wheels. It must have been like it from new because I had to file down the wheel spindle to make it move properly. I suppose that was why someone was selling it on EBay. It does make you wonder how many people put up with these issues because they assume that is normal running.