I like/dislike foreign layouts - discuss

[Steamport Southport]

14 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Don't tell Mick! @newbryford

 

Andi

 

It did become a bit of a cliche though.

 

Same as all those Satlink wagons which suddenly appeared on every modern layout a few years back....

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

19 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Don't tell Mick! @newbryford

 

Andi

 

Too late, mate, I think he's rumbled it...  Banana-coloured stock is of course fine on RTC Derby layouts.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

 

26 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

There are no-nos that I will not waste my time on, though.  As follows, not in any particular order:-

 

Flashing lights (look, we've got lights on our layout, they're way too bright and some of them flash, but it shows how clever we are , look at our lights, look at our lights, LOOK AT OUR LIGHTS, LOOK, LOOK, NOW!!!).  I'd rather not, if you don't mind...

 

Firstly, many thanks for your nice comment on my layout in an earlier post - I hope you get another opportunity to see it in the future because it has moved on leaps and bounds since you saw it - at Bristol I think.

 

But back to your more recent comments now - what you are describing in the quote above can be summed up as  a gimmick.

 

When I was planning my Chinese layout I realised that my layout had to appeal to a far wider audience than just fans of Chinese railways - it had to appeal to the 'average' enthusiast and 'families' - it's a big layout with a crew of six and exhibition managers wouldn't invite it if it only appealed to the handful of visitors who knew about (and liked) Chinese trains. So, I decided that we had to have USP's - features that other layouts didn't have. Note my use of the word 'feature' - I am like you, I don't like gimmicks, but I love features and the problem is to make sure we have many 'features' , but never cross the line and have 'gimmicks'.

 

So, one of our features is to have a train of eleven bogie loaded coal gondolas enter the industrial railway yard hauled by a 2-8-2. Then two more 2-8-2's couple on as bankers and eventually the train of just eleven coal cars departs and, as all three 2-8-2's are sound fitted, the stereophonic effect as the train passes viewers is very impressive. Many/most railway enthusiasts might think that's something I've just 'made up', but, no it's not, it's totally authentic based on the Chengde Industrial railway. On the real railway the trains did leave the yard with three 2-8-2's attached and headed off up a 1/30 grade to a steelworks and I took video of such a train slipping to a halt on a section high up in the hills above Chengde and having to back up and take another go at it.

 

Consequently, we have photos and a description of the real train at both ends of the layout to show serious enthusiasts that it's not a toy train spectacular, it's an authentic railway move. If I had 'made it up' it would be a gimmick, but as it's 100% authentic it's a feature.

 

Or, at least that's how I see it. 😉

 

And to prove that it's authentic, here's a video

 

 

[The Johnster]

I have seen the layout more recently than the Bristol show, which I think was 2018 or 19, doesn't time fly when you're having fun, and have been following it's progress here and on show vids; as you say, much has been done to it since 2018/9, and it is developing continually.  It didn't have working road vehicles last time I saw it in the flesh.  I wouldn't have made nice comments if I didn't mean them, and never doubted that the banking move was not authentic.  It is performed authentically, with the locos exchanging signals before setting off, and has a ring of truth to it even if you are not familiar with the actual operation.  Puts me in mind of the Iron Ore drags up the precipitous Rhymni Bargoed valley to Dowlais steelworks, three 56xx for 18 35-ton hoppers and makes the point that railway work is railway work everywhere in the world, differs in detail but dragging heavy trains up steep banks is universally hard work and spectucular to observe.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

29 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I have seen the layout more recently than the Bristol show, which I think was 2018 or 19, doesn't time fly when you're having fun, and have been following it's progress here and on show vids; as you say, much has been done to it since 2018/9, and it is developing continually.  It didn't have working road vehicles last time I saw it in the flesh. 

 

Ha ha!  You've summed up my problem there. The layout has had, in theory, working road vehicles since day #1 and that's the problem - "in theory".  I am not able to set the layout up at home - it's way too big - and often things that work when I get get just 2 or 3 boards up in my shed, simply don't work when I set up all 26ft x 10ft at a show. And that applied to the Faller roadway, but I am pleased to confirm that for the last 3/4 shows the Faller has performed very well and we get many questions about it as very few British layouts feature moving road vehicles.

[melmerby]

The thing that really turns me off is bad sound, as it is usually too loud and not synchronised to the loco/train operations. It just seems to be a gimmic.

A more restrained level would be much better on many layouts, it shouldn't dominate but usually does.

Worst are those depot layouts with about a dozen diesels all ticking over and it merges into a continuous cacophony of noise.

 

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

With some free time I searched out this thread after seeing a reference to it by @Oldddudders .  I don't often venture into this part of RMweb, so it's been interesting reading, thank you to all, and to @TEAMYAKIMA for the prompt.

 

Much to agree with in many posts (I am a fan of standard and narrow gauge US and 'Continental' model railways), but if I could add an experience I had a couple of years ago that hasn't been covered:

 

I was building up a collection for a possible European project and saw a layout of that prototype would be at a show I was going to. I sought it out, had a good chat with the exhibitor and (with their permission) took some photos.

 

What I didn't let on was that I didn't get the spark I was hoping for.  Nothing wrong with their layout at all, it just didn't 'do it' for me.

 

My point: seeing a good quality model of a prototype I was interested in (and still like) was a good use of my time, but on that occasion encouraged me to look at something else to pursue.

 

Another Continental layout making its debut at the same show (so I hadn't heard of) captivated me.  It's not of a prototype I plan to model, but I really enjoyed it, and the approach taken, and standard achieved, really caught my attention and interest.  I don't think a UK layout would have had the same effect - it took something different.

 

In other words, from a modeller's perspective, exhibitions can also serve as a good place for research, sometimes with interesting results.  Layouts of different / overseas prototypes have much to offer here.  Just a thought.

 

My only other comment is to say a big "THANK YOU!" to everyone involved in the exhibition circuit for all you do, so much of it behind the scenes.  It really is appreciated, and I wouldn't want that to get lost in some of the reactions people have had that have been mentioned above.

 

Hope that's OK, Keith.

 

Edited February 11 by Keith Addenbrooke

[whart57]

6 hours ago, MarcD said:

One thing people have overlooked is that before 1920 most railways in the world ran either UK or US built or designed stock. Those railways built in commonwealth countries looked like UK prototypes, with minor tweaks, so what is the the definition of British Railways.

 

Well the first locomotives in Thailand were German, as were I suspect those in many other places away from the British Empire. In the Netherlands the State Railway bought British - a lot of Beyer Peacock - but the Holland Railway bought from Borsig. The alliance between Germany and Ottoman Turkey probably meant German engines and stock across the Middle East in the Ottoman Empire.

[VIA185]

19 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

When I go to an exhibition, in general I will watch things which interest me. Many European layouts fall into that category, although the shiny out of the box appearance of the stock often jars. But US or Canadian standard gauge layouts almost never interest me, they are just too far outside my experience, and often with over-amplified sound.

 

And in general, while I like to watch trains running I'm less keen on N-scale and smaller: maybe if I took some binoculars with me ;-)

 

Conversely, any US narrow-gauge with Shays or similar is interesting to me. They are just exotic. And for British layouts I mostly have minimal interest in what has been called 'the gasworks railway' (far too much of it in the Muddler when I was a kid) and a lot of things which concentrate on shunting have minimal interest to me (I'm a Southern man, freight movements during the daytime were not very comon on the electrified lines).

I guess it must have depended on which electrified lines. Plenty of steam-hauled freight squeezed in between the electric passenger services where I lived on the line in to Feltham yard from Southampton and Reading. (CJL)

[Keith Addenbrooke]

9 hours ago, YT-1300 said:

Thank you CK, I just let those comments go over my head, I find it funny that some people can be so blinkered.  I had a chat at the same exhibition with a guy who asked why I didn't do Union Pacific, Santa Fe or CSX, my reply was because most people who do US models go for the big roads, I wanted to model a railroad that's not seen very often, and it required a lot of research to get even the basics right. 

 

Sorry, that final phrase made me smile - @F-UnitMad and @Oldddudders especially have done quite a lot to educate me about The Rock, which (my words) could almost be described as a Railroad which managed to get even the basics wrong - hence requires more effort as a modeller to portray it “right”.

 

8 hours ago, fulton said:

My knowledge of the hobby outside of the UK is limited to North America and Germany, modellers there, in my experience are just as parochial as here in the UK, they mostly like what they can see around them or have a personal connection to. I exhibit both UK and American layouts, some enthusiasts can be rude, but the general public seem to appreciate both layouts.

 

Must admit, your HO Florida switching layout is one I would love to have the chance to see - looks excellent in the photos here on RMweb.  Certainly the sort of layout I’d expect to happily spend a long time watching, Keith.

[Red Devil]

Read through the topic and to a degree some comments resonate....

It doesn't have to be 'foreign' to set some off...

When I took Grime Street out I'd guess a fair few times you'd hear 'ahhh trams....' and a swift exit. Didn't bother me really as to put it quite simply you can't please all the folk all the time. Yeah there's some who open their mouths and have all the grace of an elephant attempting ballet dance but in the main I'd say most folk are interested in 'stuff' be it their core interest or something that attracts them when seeing it in person for the first time.....To counter those that are less than enthusiastic it is often nice to speak to people who have made extended trips specifically to see what you've done, that happened several times for me, now that does give you a bit of a boost.

 

I fall into the will look at anything interesting....If I kept my viewing to what I'm really interested in and or building there'd be sod all to go and see....I mean who else is building EM Sheffield trams and 3mm dead rail Scottish diesels!

[zarniwhoop]

2 hours ago, VIA185 said:

I guess it must have depended on which electrified lines. Plenty of steam-hauled freight squeezed in between the electric passenger services where I lived on the line in to Feltham yard from Southampton and Reading. (CJL)

I was talking of Portslade on what is now the West Coastway. From about 1960 (when I was 4) to about 1972, so very limited viewing of trains - mostly when walking into town, or from a bus, in both cases stopped at the level crossing. From maybe 1970 I sometimes went to the station after school for an hour or so. I can remember seeing a diesel shunter at the local goods shed in what must have been 1964 or earlier, and mineral wagons. I also sometimes saw westbound trains of tank wagons (probably Esso, like the old airfix kit) hauled by a Crompton. At Hove, of course, and at Brighton, there were mineral wagons for coal and probably other goods vehicles. But seeing a goods train was unusual. I'm not saying I didn't, but I don't remember any. I now know there was a Brighton-Horsham afternoon goods train (later, Brighton to Beeding cement works) and from reading a WTT I think there was a westbound goods train in the early years, but after 5pm when I would have been home. I've a feeling there was also an eastbound goods at about 9 a.m. but again I was never near the railway at that hour.

 

'Parcels' of course (actually salad vegetables) from Chichester, Angmering, Worthing but only one train late morning (AFAICS the empties returned overnight). Looking at WTTs suggests there were daytime paths for westbound parcels, but using EMUs.

 

Obviously there were steam trains to the far west in the early years, and I've seen pictures of steam haulage in about 1965-6 for the Plymouth train when one of the hornbys had a boiler fault - but I never saw them. Similarly, it seems there were 6-PUL and later 4-PUL  services Victoria to Littlehampton - but I never knowingly saw a pullman car apart from the 5-BEL at Brighton or Victoria.

[fulton]

13 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

 

 

Must admit, your HO Florida switching layout is one I would love to have the chance to see - looks excellent in the photos here on RMweb.  Certainly the sort of layout I’d expect to happily spend a long time watching, Keith.

 There are some video clips on Youtube taken at the recent Erith clubs Longfield exhibition, and a short interview on Dawn Quests video of the show out again next Saturday at the Tonbridge exhibition.

[Talltim]

One thing not mentioned is that its quite interesting to see models of British railways, but built by foreigners. It can go both ways, producing an idealised UK, or noticing the things we miss even though we see them every day.

[Craigw]

Well, as an Australian who models the Great Western in the 1920s, I should say that I do not mind models based on foreign prototypes. Out of the box leaves me cold, but I do enjoy any good modelling.

Edited February 12 by Craigw

[westernviscount]

It's likely been said many times over here but I am interested in good modelling. The intent of a modeller is clear in their work and if that intention was to create something for themselves which honours in some way their interests/passions then I am all in. 

The intention behind the layout is usually plain to see. Its like great art. 

[bbishop]

 If you come to the Tonbridge show this Saturday, you can see Obbekaer in P87 by Geraint Hughes - simply some of the best modelling on the circuit.  You can also see Blindheim by yours truly - constrained by circumstances but an attempt to represent a Franconian backwater in Spur Null.  Bill

[whart57]

20 hours ago, Talltim said:

One thing not mentioned is that its quite interesting to see models of British railways, but built by foreigners. It can go both ways, producing an idealised UK, or noticing the things we miss even though we see them every day.

 

A very good layout I saw a few years ago was an British outline one built by modellers in the Netherlands. Though I did think it was a little unambitious of them to choose the Great Eastern in the flattest part of the country ........

[fezza]

I think much depends on how much you travel and experience overseas railways. I love Italian railways where there is still a lot of loco haulage and variety - and lots of preserved stock on the main line on a regular basis. 

 

I'm surprised we don't see more railways based on Egypt given it's a major tourist destination. EMD G22s and Class 66s on passenger trains anyone? And if your interest is heavy weathering... well, carriage washers don't seem to exist.

[whart57]

Watch the Alice Roberts serial on Channel 4 for a taste of Egyptian Railways.

[Talltim]

What about models of railways in places that never had them, or places that never actually existed?

[PaulRhB]

On 11/02/2024 at 10:21, YT-1300 said:

At its first showing there where a few comments of 'foreign sh*te' and even 'German(!) crap' .  Even had one guy telling me I was wasting my money on 'that' rubbish!

 

Some exhibition goers can be very blinkered.  

That’s the only real issue some feel it necessary to be rude rather than walk on quietly by. I know what I like and I will scan some layouts and move on, different things interest and amuse me though so sometimes something just grabs your attention so everything is worth a look. 
 

Some Continental scenes can be quite ‘chocolate boxy’ too

 

 

Right lads, those locos are a disgrace! Get some muck on them right now!

 

The true thing is balance, 

Passenger trains are often cleaned every day, freight stock isn’t. 

 

 

Heritage freight is also often stored outside so gets grotty and faded over time. Here the wagons on the left are fresh out but the flat’s deck is bleached grey. 

 

Several criticised the stunning Wolfstadt for being too clean and choccy box but look closer and you’ll find rust from stay bolts etc, it’s just less obvious amongst the bright scenery, the weather causes that, regular rain means verdant growth and tight littering laws means out in the country it can look just like a postcard. 

Go to the Semmering, or if you’re from there as is one of our members here, and this is what you see. 
 

Much like coming down the hill into Klosters

 

So choccy box can be good modelling 😉

 

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, fezza said:

I think much depends on how much you travel and experience overseas railways.

Quite possibĺy in many cases, but not always. My interest & modelling of US trains goes back decades, but I've only actually been to the USA once, fairly recently, and then nowhere near where I'm interested in. 

But in line with your comment I'd like to do a model based on 1990s Dutch railways, after a trip there in 1997, but time, space & funds (more precisely, the cost of EU models!!) preclude it.

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

What about models of railways in places that never had them, or places that never actually existed?

 

You mean like Discworld, Sodor and Cornwall?

 

 

Jason

[Talltim]

4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

You mean like Discworld, Sodor and Cornwall?

 

 

Jason

How dare, you. Discworld is very real*

 

*in many people's heads