I like/dislike foreign layouts - discuss

[Re6/6]

What CK posted chimes very much with me. At shows, anything in any scale that's well modelled and is presented with that 'realistic' look to it irrespective of its nationality always appeals.

 

Continuous movement on large layouts also is always good to see.  We'll be striving for that on our 'Balcombe' layout!

 

This one I'd love to see but never will as it's firmly rooted in Italy!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWFvxjY3-rE Good to see the running with 'pans up'!...not often seen.

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Re6/6

[Michael Hodgson]

45 minutes ago, Re6/6 said:

This one I'd love to see but never will as it's firmly rooted in Italy!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWFvxjY3-rE Good to see the running with 'pans up'!...not often seen.

 

No point in putting up with all the knitting if you don't.

[ColinK]

I like to see a variety of layouts, different scales, different gauges and different countries, standard and narrow gauges too.  The things that particulary interest me are BR blue, especially with mainline action and European prototypes.  I’m not really interested in pre-grouping and American models, I find loco shed layouts very boring .  One exhibition I went to recently had a considerable number of very small layouts, most of them being inglenooks, which wasn’t good.  But I do think exhibitions should have a wide range of exhibits to cater for everybody’s interests.

 

Perhaps my own layouts explain my intetests, I had a blue diesel layout until recently another one about to be started), a tiny HOe layout (quite different too), a 009 micro layout (built for a club competition) and a G scale layout based on East German/Harz practice.  The G scale will be making its first public appearance at the Chapel-en-le-Frith exhibition on 24/25 February.

[Steamport Southport]

I don't mind them. Many are very good scenic wise and I can even forgive some of the gimmicks.

 

One problem I do have with a lot of them though is that most of the locos and rolling stock seem to be straight out of the box RTR and sometimes doesn't even match era and location wise. It's just a random assortment from that country*. Something that some British "Modern Image" layouts also suffers with. 

 

Being someone who is mostly interested in locos and rolling stock rather than layouts/scenery that's something that irks. So I tend to have a bit of a watch and then move on.

 

*Something I'm guilty of myself, but I'm not exhibiting mine!

 

 

Jason

[SM42]

Never was a fan, but having been an exhibition manager and then travelling regularly to Europe, European H0 has become more of an interest. 

 

Perhaps it was the unfamiliarity, perhaps the out if the box look of a lot of rolling stock running about the layout, something just didn't click. 

 

It's fair to say I've mellowed over the years, but still find US layouts hard to take more than a passing interest in and dare I say it, non European layouts are similar. 

 

 

Perhaps it's more about what you have a little knowledge or experience of that moulds your attitude to any particular modelled prototype

 

Andy

[Johann Marsbar]

Seeing someone wearing a Ferroclub Argentino logo on an item of clothing in this thread 🙂 , I'd love to see an Argentine prototype layout over here as I found it a fascinating place, not just railway wise, on a couple of visits in 2007/2009.

 

I did have a go at some pseudo-Argentine stock in G-scale though......

 

 

 

The real thing......

 

 

 

I actually prefer the "Foreign stuff" at exhibitions - particularly US outline - as I've ended up with more knowledge of the US/Canadian operations over there after 40+ visits to the place than I do for some of the UK lines !!!

[Andy Hayter]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

Edit to add that the Doncaster Show is billed as the "Festival of British Railway Modelling", so a lack of overseas layouts shouldn't be a total surprise.

 

 

I don't want to give anyone a lesson in the English language - and especially not Warners - but there is a difference between:

"Festival of British Railway Modelling"

and

"Festival of Modelling British Railways"

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

I don't want to give anyone a lesson in the English language - and especially not Warners - but there is a difference between:

"Festival of British Railway Modelling"

and

"Festival of Modelling British Railways"

 

The first one is ambiguous, so they could be the same. Come to think of it the second one could still mean either modelling any and all railways in Britain, or modelling just BR.

 

Anyway, back to the topic when I see foreign layouts listed I skip over them in terms of judging whether or not I'm interested in visiting (unless it's one of the very limited selection of prototypes I've got a slight knowledge of, which even then is no more than "I've been in the area.") But when I get to the show I often find they can capture my interest anyway, at least as much as any other. Not all will - a bunch of modern containers moving very slowly in front of a line of tin shed industrial units doesn't do it for me no matter where it's supposed to be, but I've often surprised myself at just what has interested me.

 

The same's true of British ones mind you. I don't like the current full sized scene in the slightest, but I can get engrossed in a good model of it.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

22 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Perhaps it's more about what you have a little knowledge or experience of that moulds your attitude to any particular model

 

Maybe you have hit the nail on the head - for both camps!

 

Some people 'move on' quickly when they see something they don't know anything about, but someone like me immediately hones in on something I don't know anything about - because I want to learn about it.

 

Both approaches are fine - individual choice - but I tend to quickly 'move on' from things I've seen 1000's of times in the 60 odd years I've been attending shows.

[The Pilotman]

6 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

what do others think about the British/foreign debate in general.

I didn’t know there was one, but there seems to be now 😁. There are many factors that influence whether a layout is interesting (to me) or not. Whether the model is of a British subject or not isn’t one of them. 

[Steven B]

Many years ago I helped operate a German outline, N Gauge layout. I was shocked at the number of show visitors who didn't give it a second glance because it was neither British or OO Gauge.

 

Surely any layout is worth a few minutes of your time?

 

Steven B

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Railways are interesting, period.

Therefore models of railways are interesting.

 

I was within a hair's breadth of going for North American HO in my later life reresumption of railway modelling (usual break for careering, mortgaging, marrying, etc.) when Bachmann popped up with RTR OO models of a quality hitherto only available in 4mm by kit and scratch building, and thus I stayed with UK prototype.

 

Would I like to build a model of the railway on Java one of my forebears engineered? 

Do I fell tempted by Indian railways?

What about 'Cape gauge' Garratts?

 

Oh yes, if the chance arose - now unlikely I know.

[SM42]

Cards on the table @TEAMYAKIMA

 

I'm one of those who has maybe tarried a while on front of your layout and then moved on. 

 

It's not that I don't like it.  Just don't know much about the prototype and I'm normally about three rows back so it's hard to see it anyway.. 

 

Maybe it's because I don't want to find myself hunting out Chinese models and  don't want to be drawn in. 

 

Likewise, German/ Swiss narrow gauge or pre era 5 does nothing for me. German / Swiss era 5 or 6 may se me linger for a few minutes. 

 

Dutch era 5 / 6 will definitely see me stop for a while, based on a couple of hours train watching in Utrecht.

 

Now Czech outline, era 5 or 6 will probably see me hang around even though I've probably not spent more than 48 hours in total in the country and maybe only a couple near a railway. 

 

Perhaps it's the landscape, perhaps it's the limited experiences, perhaps the wierd prortypes and liveries,  perhaps its the loco hauled trains that take me back to happier days when the UK had a wide variety of motive power who knows.

 

Perhaps it's  just that the railways of any particular country can spark a " I can see myself  modelling that" response. 

 

Who knows. 

 

Andy

Who has more ideas for European layouts in his head than are healthy for the wallet or I have time or space to build

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Cards on the table @TEAMYAKIMA

 

I'm one of those who has maybe tarried a while on front of your layout and then moved on. 

 

It's not that I don't like it.  Just don't know much about the prototype and I'm normally about three rows back so it's hard to see it anyway.. 

 

Maybe it's because I don't want to find myself hunting out Chinese models and  don't want to be drawn in. 

 

Likewise, German/ Swiss narrow gauge or pre era 5 does nothing for me. German / Swiss era 5 or 6 may se me linger for a few minutes. 

 

Dutch era 5 / 6 will definitely see me stop for a while, based on a couple of hours train watching in Utrecht.

 

Now Czech outline, era 5 or 6 will probably see me hang around even though I've probably not spent more than 48 hours in total in the country and maybe only a couple near a railway. 

 

Perhaps it's the landscape, perhaps it's the limited experiences, perhaps the wierd prortypes and liveries,  perhaps its the loco hauled trains that take me back to happier days when the UK had a wide variety of motive power who knows.

 

Perhaps it's  just that the railways of any particular country can spark a " I can see myself  modelling that" response. 

 

Who knows. 

 

Andy

Who has more ideas for European layouts in his head than are healthy for the wallet or I have time or space to build

 

Could that be a factor?

 

At bigger shows layouts are often packed so you don't tend to stay for things that you don't have much interest in as you want to get a good view of the ones you want to see. Whereas at a smaller show you don't have massive crowds around every layout so you can spend a bit more time around them.

 

Must admit I did spend about half an hour watching the Chinese one in Manchester!

 

 

Jason

[TEAMYAKIMA]

9 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Cards on the table @TEAMYAKIMA

 

I'm one of those who has maybe tarried a while on front of your layout and then moved on. 

 

That's fine, it's not a case of right or wrong, it's just personal choice.

 

When I'm asked "Why did you model Chinese railways?" I always reply, "Because I don't want to have the 594th best GWR branch line on the exhibition circuit."

[SM42]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Could that be a factor?

 

At bigger shows layouts are often packed so you don't tend to stay for things that you don't have much interest in as you want to get a good view of the ones you want to see. Whereas at a smaller show you don't have massive crowds around every layout so you can spend a bit more time around them.

 

Must admit I did spend about half an hour watching the Chinese one in Manchester!

 

 

Jason

 

That's certainly a factor I think. 

 

The beauty of the foreign outline is that it is ( apart from a certain  slice of China) often very easy to get a good view as the a lot of people just breeze past. 

 

Horses for courses I suppose, but in my case it does defy logic a bit as to why I like some countries more than others once the non UK, H0 bug struck. 

 

Andy

[eastwestdivide]

8 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I was thinking of going to the Doncaster show this weekend, but…

You missed the sight of a German ICE on the sea wall at Teignmouth!

[Dunsignalling]

 

I'm always drawn to pre-TGV SNCF layouts, though they seem a rare sight at UK exhibitions. German and Swiss seems to constitute the mainstream for UK exponents of the Continental scene.

 

Only HO, though. N is too small to grab my interest unless it's US/Canadian.

 

John

[jjb1970]

I'm not sure I've ever found a railway I don't find interesting to some degree, regardless of location and era. I even find mass transit metro type railways interesting which are largely ignored in model form and often dismissed as not real railways by many enthusiasts. That said, I do have preferences and stuff that I am enthusiastic about, GWR, Southern (especially Bulleid era), some North American, Chineses and Japanese railways. However, at exhibitions I tend to enjoy layouts from outside those areas of interest as I enjoy seeing stuff out of the ordinary or hich is different. After all, if I want to just see stuff which matches my personal preferences then it'd be more efficient to stay at home. There was a famous North American logging layout on the exhibition circuit a few years ago which was a magnificent layout, logging railways are not really something I'd normally pay much attention to but I could have watched that layout all day.

Whether it is foreign or not doesn't bother me. My own interests are weighted towards foreign railways, particularly Japan, China and Indonesia but the modelling and operation is what makes an exhibition layout enjoyable for me.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I first read about European railways via John Christie's train formation articles in MRC during the late 1970s, later in the early issues of Continental Modeller and then via @steverabone's articles in Euromodel Rail Review — was it really 40 years ago? Thing is, I find that my interest in them is in the prototypes of that time — I don’t have any interest in the present day operations.

 

When it comes to exhibitions, if a layout looks good and runs well then it will be worth looking at. Normally I'd look at every layout at least for a little while.

 

 The Doncaster show has always been UK only, AFAIK — the other shows have various "Continental" layouts on show (using CMs definition of "continental").

[MartinRS]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

The first one is ambiguous, so they could be the same. Come to think of it the second one could still mean either modelling any and all railways in Britain, or modelling just BR.

The term 'British Railways' pre-dates the nationalisation of the industry and was used to refer to the big four, especially in WWII. See

https://www.britishvintageposters.co.uk/all-clear-for-the-guns-british-railways-war-poster-6617-p.asp and

https://www.antikbar.co.uk/original_vintage_posters/advertising_posters/eggs_dairy_produce_wwii_british_railways/PA1957/

 

There are some posters here for 'British Railways' which also have the GWR, LMS, LNER and SR abbreviations. http://vintageposterblog.com/2013/04/23/string-theory/

 

As for foreign layouts does the OP mean anything that's not the GCR, LNER (ex GCR), BR(E) and BR(M) (ex GCR)? - Insert your own prejudices preferences here!

 

Seriously though, I've had a passing interest in US prototypes in the past, partly because of the accessible (English language) information, partly because of the much better running and coupling qualities of models of US prototypes in N in the 1990s and and partly because of the influence of the very first Railway of the Month I saw in the very first copy of Railway Modeller I owned. It was a model of the the Denver and Rio Grande.

 

I would always stop and look at an overseas layout at an exhibition though if an exhibition was dominated by foreign layouts I might give it a miss. (An academic thought experiment at the moment. I wish I had time to visit Doncaster this weekend: I don't).

 

I would never think about modelling European prototypes, unless Hornby TT:120 doesn't take off in which case I'll just have to imagine that Watkin actually did build that tunnel. Trans European Express to Sheffield Victoria anyone?

[F-UnitMad]

33 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

at exhibitions I tend to enjoy layouts from outside those areas of interest as I enjoy seeing stuff out of the ordinary or hich is different. After all, if I want to just see stuff which matches my personal preferences then it'd be more efficient to stay at home

Nail + head = hit!! 👍👍

 

[DK123GWR]

At Nailsea last year, I overheard a conversation between two gentlemen walking past a Croatian layout called Osjusko Stari with thick West Country accents to the effect of:

"That there's some foreign stuff."

"Crikey."

 

In telling this story before somebody remarked to me that they may well have said the same about the LMS.

 

 

One place I think would make a good model, and which will be familiar to some British people, is Aguas Calientes in Peru. Look around on Street View and I'm sure you'll see its potential:

https://www.google.com/maps/@-13.1551661,-72.5256983,2a,75y,58.25h,79.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAg8uy3S9EyNPekfl3JjMiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

 

If you are looking up the stream towards the footbridges, the rails leading round the curve on your right hand side lead to this junction at the edge of town:

https://www.google.com/maps/@-13.1578695,-72.5235395,2a,75y,341.11h,76.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snC37LWipxdiMI5ugINkZRw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

 

The other line comes from this terminus, on a higher level than the first picture.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-13.1569789,-72.5236113,2a,70.7y,328.67h,85.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx2AZ-MUSCWCoWkUmISafvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

 

 

Another thought would be the railways in the Llobregat valley near Barcelona, with metre, standard, Iberian, and mixed gauge lines running all sorts of passenger and freight trains.

[whart57]

British or foreign prototypes; present day, a generation ago or more generations ago - all have been represented by decent layouts, and all have suffered a lot of dross. It's quality of build, level of creativity and an eye for realism that counts no matter what the prototype. There has to be reasons why people would pay money to see a layout.

 

That said, if the prototype is unusual I'll cut the builder a bit of slack. Not least because building the unusual is harder work than building something that is well supported by the trade and by the techniques we use. The unusual is also likely to be less cliche-ridden.

[Binky]

I stop and look at every layout at an exhibition. Whatever the prototype may be I am a modeller and an operator as well as a railfan, and every layout displays someone's skills in layout design, modelling and operation so this is something I can always admire, relate to and be inspired by.